Playing a chopper
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Topic: Playing a chopper
Posted By: hohenadel
Subject: Playing a chopper
Date Posted: 05/19/2005 at 5:44pm
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I play regularly against a person who is a chopper. Almost nothing but backhand chops and some forehand chops. I have a very very hard time playing against this person. I can usually pull out a win but it is quite difficult. I see it to be much harder to play against than a regular topspin loop. Can someone give me some information or some tips on how to play against a chopper like this??? Thanks. ------------- Blade- DHS CW-A FH- Globe 999t on Cannon BH- Higher on Transcend |
Replies:
Posted By: alink91
Date Posted: 05/19/2005 at 5:48pm
| My advice is too loop very consistenly agisnt the side he cannot attack on, also, use side spin loops sometimes |
Posted By: dondish
Date Posted: 05/19/2005 at 6:42pm
| first attck after a relative easy ball into the buddy and then, start moving him while watching where he expects the ball |
Posted By: yulske
Date Posted: 05/19/2005 at 7:17pm
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if he gives you nothing, loop drive the ball to oblivion ------------- clipper magna hammond |
Posted By: Patmandidily
Date Posted: 05/19/2005 at 7:56pm
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I wrote two really long posts on this awhile ago. Attack the center. Most choppers poorly cover the center. Otherwise, try varying the spin on loops. Loop one very spinny then one not so spinny. ------------- Blade - Bastian Steger Flared (Butterfly) Rubber - Sriver 2.1 FH 802-40 2.2 BH __________________ |
Posted By: sunny
Date Posted: 05/19/2005 at 10:26pm
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Here are the details: Handling defensive player (chopper):
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Posted By: bslater5
Date Posted: 05/19/2005 at 10:31pm
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If his chop spin gets excessive (giving you trouble) try to push every third ball or so. If you can manage, push to his weaker attack side. Keep them low and, if possible short.
This will make him move in and out, and will slow the spin down. Most choppers don't like being too close. If you can catch him close, or just starting back, go for the body! Be patient if you can't simply overpowser him (I should heed this advice myself!)! bes |
Posted By: DTopSpirit
Date Posted: 05/20/2005 at 3:40am
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Hi hohenadel, I've got some info that might help with your tactics at http://members.iinet.net.au/~jsgletts/tabletennis/articles/mptAttackervsDefender.html - http://members.iinet.net.au/~jsgletts/tabletennis/articles/mptAttackervsDefender.html Have a look and see what you think. Greg ------------- http://gregsttpages.com" rel="nofollow - Greg's Table Tennis Pages |
hohenadel wrote:Posted By: ttplayer05
Date Posted: 05/20/2005 at 5:03am
| Try looping into the middle of the table, this way he can not get an angle on his return, choppers are always weakest when it comes into their body. |
Posted By: yulske
Date Posted: 05/20/2005 at 5:25am
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try to push to make them loop, they will almost always go cross court because thats the safest and the block, ive seen a lot of choppers lose points like this...the most recent being paul pinkewich last nite and he used to be australian champ ------------- clipper magna hammond |
Posted By: hohenadel
Date Posted: 05/20/2005 at 10:18am
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Thanks a lot to everyone who gave me the info. Helping a lot actually already. ------------- Blade- DHS CW-A FH- Globe 999t on Cannon BH- Higher on Transcend |
Posted By: ttplayer05
Date Posted: 05/20/2005 at 10:25am
| Also, make sure you keep moving them about, (long deep loops and short pushes, therefore moving them in and out), never let them settle into a rhythm. Also, dont feel as if you have to win the point in your first shot, be patient and wait for the correct ball to attack against |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 05/20/2005 at 11:41am
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Do a google search on dr pinpong tips. There's some good stuff in there on chopping and in general. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: ttplayer05
Date Posted: 05/20/2005 at 11:46am
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go to this link: http://www.masatenisi.org/english/kesmeci.htm - http://www.masatenisi.org/english/kesmeci.htm good article on how to play choppers, and the different styles of choppers about. |
Posted By: sumitani
Date Posted: 05/20/2005 at 11:48am
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Choppers tend to have weaker forehand chops, largely because the natural motion of the stroke is more conducive to the backhand. The backhand provides more opportunity for a smoother, faster arm/wrist combination, whereas the forehand chop is a little weird. I'm sure you can feel it when you try.
Anyway, a standard method that I use is a very simple 3 shot point, with you serving. -Serve with left side spin so that the opponent will generally return to your left side. Either that or any serve that will get you a weak/decent return to your side. -During that return, you have to make a decision, to either drive down the line or across the table. This is where you will have to find out which direction your opponent is expecting the ball. 1)Generally people don't expect the loop down the line at first, so that's an easy draw. 2)After you do this shot down the line, try it again. However, usually people expect you to drive down the line again, so they anticipate. Act as if you are about to drive down the line, but hit the ball later so that you go across the court. 3)The opponent's shift of weight towards defending against a down-the-line shot will throw their balance off and they will have to scramble to return the cross court shot, if at all. It will be a weaker shot, so then you can take advantage of it. Another method that I use is to really make use of short and long serves. Watch your opponent's ready position and if he or she is standing just a little far back, try a really short back spin serve and watch for a weak return. After this happens, he or she will probably be ready for another short serve, so send a bullet topspin down the line. A lot of choppers have really weak attacks too, so if you lob the ball up 3-4 feet above the table, you might be surprised to see that many choppers screw this up, by either not knowing how to loop very well, their pips prevent them from attacking, or they just leap for the opportunity of attacking. If they somehow do crush the ball, you'll be standing back and ready to drive the ball back even faster, catching them off-guard when they are close to the table. Remember that chopping is very tiring, because there's a lot of running around for them. Instead of trying to overpower their agility, try to fool them with placement and variation instead of force, because it also becomes a tiring game for you too. |
Posted By: hristo
Date Posted: 05/20/2005 at 1:14pm
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I just atack aggressively whit the strongest forehand loop that I can produse(something that Kreanga's style)
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Posted By: Patmandidily
Date Posted: 05/20/2005 at 4:23pm
I wouldn't say push to his weaker attack side so much as I would say that it's generally better to push to the forehand. Your push will likely not have much, if any, spin. The inverted rubber would likely make the chopper pop the ball up, making for an easy loop to the center. Also, on this topic, I'm very satisfied with the general quality of information. Players should use lots of this stuff in game. What I haven't seen much of though is variation. Don't be predictable at all. As an attacker, you probably have many weapons in your arsenal. Use each one of them. One of my favorite examples of play against defenders is Schlager vs. Joo Se Hyuk in the final for the worlds. The play was essentially perfect. ------------- Blade - Bastian Steger Flared (Butterfly) Rubber - Sriver 2.1 FH 802-40 2.2 BH __________________ |
Posted By: *JC*
Date Posted: 05/20/2005 at 10:31pm
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watch out pat, im sure there is a mob of peole who want to tell you that schlagers play was not "essentially perfect", but it was essentially lucky or fluky or some other bullsh*t.
------------- Thats not a knife THIS is a knife. Thats not a knife THATS a spoon. |
Posted By: yulske
Date Posted: 05/20/2005 at 10:43pm
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you gotta be kidding about the push to the choppers forehand thing right? if theres one thing choppers do well its chop and push, thats their game, you push to their forehand and theyll push back and hard with lots of spin, push to their backhand, that way you know you wont get much spin...use the pimples as a way to control the point because you know that they cant spin at all....then when you get your pimple return, loop drive hard into the body... ------------- clipper magna hammond |
Posted By: tell
Date Posted: 06/05/2005 at 5:20am
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I'd like to agree with Yulske. Generally players are stronger on their forehand side. That goes for choppers and attackers, of course there is always the exception... Ive learnt some great tips from this topic, lm looking forward to trying them on...I think of course most of the errudite tips come from those players at the top of their club. If this is true the tips are probably tailored for higher level player. For instance lve found a slow loop lob to be effective against the players l play. It wears the defender down. Takes the pressure off you and give you the time to make your move when you see the opportunity., however a higher level defender would just cream the ball back.. Yulske, l envy you getting the chance to see Pinkerwich play. Although he plays completely different to Waldner, l think Pauls our older model to Waldner. As a younster my role model was Craig Camphell. A Victorian.... ------------- tell |
Posted By: Patmandidily
Date Posted: 06/05/2005 at 12:55pm
Yulske, I think you misunderstood. When you are looping to a chopper's backhand or center, then you drop to a chopper's forehand, they have to make the longest movement, so he could make an error if he is not fast enough. Also the chopper is probably pushing with a bit of underspin, so it will be easier to make a consistent loop over since you will be generating more topspin. ------------- Blade - Bastian Steger Flared (Butterfly) Rubber - Sriver 2.1 FH 802-40 2.2 BH __________________ |
Posted By: AVarun
Date Posted: 06/06/2005 at 2:33pm
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Sunny, that was a very detailed description about how to play a chopper! Good stuff. Choppers can be really annoying, because they force you to adjust your game, sometimes drastically, in order to play them. A blocker or counter-player cannot continue his style against a reasonably good chopper( 1800+) and hope to succeed. You have to do other things: push, roll, loop, chop back, play down the middle more etc. Irritating as they are, I realise deep down that their game has more skill than my game does! One day, I'll find the right mix to play them successfully. |
Posted By: DTopSpirit
Date Posted: 06/07/2005 at 8:24am
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Actually, Craig is still playing over here in WA - I played pennants with him for many years and won the State Doubles with him a few times - a great player and good guy too! Greg ------------- http://gregsttpages.com" rel="nofollow - Greg's Table Tennis Pages |
Posted By: yulske
Date Posted: 06/07/2005 at 8:49am
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patman, i know what you mean, your right, but you have to push them hard to the backhand, most of the time theyll be scrambling to get the ball back so usually it wont have much work on the push, but then if it does, you clearly can see it. ------------- clipper magna hammond |
Posted By: simon yeung
Date Posted: 06/17/2005 at 11:17am
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yes i know how u feel I am a penhold player I easly have the advantage over attackers but when i play a defander I try to drive it on top of the bounce or loop it but I always play in his rythem and I hate there slow game pase
------------------------------------------------------------- DHS v-series penhold forhand 999 super(black) backhand sriver L (RED) |
Posted By: Alexm
Date Posted: 06/17/2005 at 2:18pm
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If you are having trouble looping consistently against chopper, you have to remember to slow loop every aggressive chop and not try to do too much with it. Only when you get higher and less spinning ball then you can put all your power into loop. And if your fast loop comes back as aggressive chop again, you have to force yourself to slow down and continue with slow loops until the next high ball comes along. Takes some patience but works very well in the end.
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Posted By: longpong
Date Posted: 06/17/2005 at 4:55pm
| Every chopper is a individual type of player as for the offence player is or any style basically..so I don't think there is any univeruall method about it, u just have to look at your opponents weakness,witch evry player have more or less,same strategy as with any player/style I think. But in general choppers have problems with very fast movement cause the defensive strokes "in general" requires more footwork to make the strokes right and it's easier side to side contra short-long rally,so there is allways a way to go.and offcourse variation,spin,speed,angles..but I think that will work against any style..very short backspin servers is good cause the chopper can't make so heavy chops agianst it..the site that's speaks about the choppers weakness in forehands and so on I think is just bullsh*t,depends on the player, some choppers have infact have a greater forehands so that will just confuse u ..... |
Posted By: larrytt
Date Posted: 07/03/2005 at 1:54am
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Here's an article I wrote on playing choppers. Hope it helps!
http://www.usatt.org/tip_photo/072301.shtml -Larry Hodges |
Posted By: Patmandidily
Date Posted: 07/03/2005 at 12:02pm
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"Only when you get higher and less spinning ball then you can put all your power into loop" I find that when I spin a chop well, a chopper will chop those higher because it's harder to control since it has more spin. Thus, the higher chops usually have more spin. "very short backspin servers is good cause the chopper can't make so heavy chops agianst it..the site that's speaks about the choppers weakness in forehands and so on I think is just bullsh*t" We're really always speaking in generalities, but if someone loops a heavy chop to a chopper's forehand well, then they're probably going to give a worse return since all the spin is harder to control with the inverted rubber. Also, I actually find short backspin isn't that great a serve against choppers. If I'm playing against long pips on the backhand, I think that topspin, no spin, fast topspin, and fast no spin are the best serves. This is because these serves will give me the most predictable return. If I serve underspin into the pips, the long pips player can do something weak and give me topspin or chop under it heavily and give me a no spin return. I will really only serve short underspin into long pips if I'm playing a chopper once a game. ------------- Blade - Bastian Steger Flared (Butterfly) Rubber - Sriver 2.1 FH 802-40 2.2 BH __________________ |
Posted By: vici
Date Posted: 07/13/2005 at 12:38am
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Try alternating your loops, some fast lobs (with a lot of spin), and others loop drives down the line.
Also, keep the guy moving, and be unpredictable. If the guy can only chop, he shouldn't be much of a problem. Above all else, get the ball on the table. ------------- "Courage is ability to let go of the familiar" |
Posted By: longpong
Date Posted: 07/13/2005 at 7:34am
| I looked at Ma Lin when he destroyed Joo See Hyuk at the killerspin game.He did a lot of variation in his game,but of course he's got a tremendous forehand drive one of the best, but in some point he just played very short and with heavy fast pushes and Joo hitting the bottom of the net.But to play good against chopper u allways can study the masters over choopers, in my opponion that is, Ma Lin,Kreanga,Waldner,Samsonov,Boll and a few more...they have quite different strategies of handle a chopper, Waldner,Ma Lin and perhaps Kreanga just crusch them into pieces with their heavy strokes and they find angles so deep that even a wall couldn't catch their attacks,while Boll is going for long rallies with great security in his game(on the long run) he plays the chopper from side to side ,long short and when the chance comes he usually take it. |
Posted By: Spontaneous
Date Posted: 07/13/2005 at 7:40am
| loops short and consistent. loop to the side ur opponent cant counter attack. Looping short forces ur opponent to return top spin, no spin, or very high backspin shots. Whack the next shot for a winner. |
Posted By: longpong
Date Posted: 07/13/2005 at 3:37pm
| I find it easier to return short topspins,maybe thats just individual witch one u prefer as a chopper.I think it's much harder return superfast and spinny loops that Ma Lin type of stroke, short and spinny just makes it easier for the chopper to increase the spin even more and still make a low chop near the net, impossible to kill.but as u where saying vari the loops a lot, for ex, a few short loops then a super hard spinny one,that should give a easy ball to kill, if not as u was saying a short loop again and so on.. |
Posted By: PingPongPang
Date Posted: 07/15/2005 at 9:45pm
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watch the spin of the ball. loop it with patience. attack when there's not too much spin.
------------- Explorer kinetic SC 729 Higher Sriver EL |
Posted By: gecko the first
Date Posted: 07/19/2005 at 12:08pm
service---->hard fast forehadtopspin---->smash---->tschooo
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Posted By: longpong
Date Posted: 07/21/2005 at 7:07am
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that easy *S* its funny when u read all the tactic sites cause they really assume that the ball ALLWAYS!!! will come back at u very very predictible,,but maybe the chopper will put his chop low, short,near the net deep into to the bh side instead???? then what? sh*t then all the teories didn't work out no more *S*,JUST KIDDING... life isn't allways so easy u know..thank's for a really great forum.. ------------- Japsko allround straight Destroyer 1.5mm black/729 2mm red (HurricaneIII red 2mm soon I hope.... |
Posted By: normal
Date Posted: 07/22/2005 at 8:27am
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Against a chopper it's not as difficult as you think.You will need good controll.You play a backspin service (1) he will chop according to his style you chop back full power (3) preferred with your backhand short on the middle he will have to chop back and now you can finish wit either a powerfull forehand loop or a backhand loop (5) what you have achieved in this setup is to gain control of the spin so he cannot vary it.Because you are now familiar with the amount of spin you can now adjust your loop power to it. ------------- Will Power Carbon-Arylate by 729 Forehand Red LKT Rapid Soft 2.0mm Back hand Black LKT Rapid Soft 2.0mm |
Posted By: TT_Freak
Date Posted: 07/22/2005 at 9:39am
| Speed, unpredictable spin and sound form is what is needed to dominate a chopper. The chopper must not be allowed to find a groove, the more unpredictable and stronger your attacks the better. You can not simply overpower a chopper in the conventional sense. Preferably you should loop-drive off the bounce as much as possible and to different areas of the table to maximise speed, unpredictability and consistancy to gain a tempo advantage. |
Posted By: YATTP
Date Posted: 08/15/2005 at 7:53pm
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It's quite funny that some people find it so easy to play defenders and have simplistic or naive recipes for everything.
In real life you will find that every defender is different. There are the super monster spin types that put so much spin in the ball that you simply can't loop the ball aggressively - if you can loop it at all  (a "simple" push on a super heavy chop is extremely difficult also). If he has a stong attack also you'll definitely run into problems. In contrast to what was said in this thread, a defender can generate by far more backspin with his forehand than with his backhand. This is the reason why many defenders use long pips on their backhand these days.
There are so many tricks the defenders can come up with like heavy variations in spin, heavy side-underspin which will produce an extrem curve to the side just where you are waiting for your next loop and you find yourself totally mispositioned. If the ball hits the table it will bounce extremely to the side and you are screwed hard. You simply can't afford to play weak balls against defenders of a certain level. They are waiting for these balls - especially the ones with short pips or anti on the back hand. The defensive game is not weaker than the attacking game - it's just a different approach. General tips: 1.) Learn to smash against backspin. If you can't hit against backspin, you can't win against a good chopper. This is the only way to beat them. This is what you are waiting for - a slightly higher ball that you can kill. 2.) Vary you game as much as possible. Consistent loops with pretty much the same amount of spin is just perfect prey for a defender. Vary you spin. Vary the hight of the loops. Spinny high loops on his backhand sometimes produce high balls because they aren't easy to chop back low - especially with anti. Vary lenght and try to move him around as much as possible (He'll certainly move you around also :-)) 3.) You need to learn how to play good stops against heavy backspin. These balls are essential if you play a good defender. 3.) patience and lots of practice |
Posted By: Patmandidily
Date Posted: 08/15/2005 at 8:31pm
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YATTP, there's one huge thing you forgot... how to force choppers to make decisions. As a looper, I am usually given a few options on any ball I get from a chopper. I can loop it, push it, or hit it if it's a high ball close to the net. Basically loopers control the play. However, choppers usually have the easy decision of chopping a ball back. If you're an allaround good looper and want to force errors out of a chopper, a good strategy is to try to give them balls that they could attack. This is because if a chopper is given a difficult decision between attacking and defending, he often will make the wrong choice. For example, if a chopper gives you a low chop to your forehand, give the chopper a very arced loop. The chopper will usually either attack it poorly or chop it poorly, since very arced loops can have huge variation in spin. By using this strategy, you can generally force errors more easily out of choppers. As long as a looper doesn't let a defender get into a rhythm, the looper will win by far the majority of the time. ------------- Blade - Bastian Steger Flared (Butterfly) Rubber - Sriver 2.1 FH 802-40 2.2 BH __________________ |
Posted By: YATTP
Date Posted: 08/16/2005 at 8:27am
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This is a good point. However, the defender will try to do exactly the same thing.
You can smash ANY ball that is higher than the net - even if it's a long ball. The spin really doesn't matter if you manage to create enough forward momentum, i.e. hit hard enough with an open blade (90� angle) - the stronger the spin the harder you have to hit. It really depends on the level of play and the particular strengths of the defender. Your high loop strategy is good if you don't play these balls too often and if he is not a good hitter and if he is far away from the table. However, you have to remember that the ball will pick up more rotation each time you loop or he chops. Both strokes will increase the rotation. This is one of the reasons why you shouldn't base you strategy on long topspin rallies because you waste way too much energy compared to him and there will be a point in the rally where the spin will be too much for you to handle - regardless of your skill. Shetinin (a Russian world class defender in the Bundesliga has beaten Timo Boll on many occasions because Boll bases his game too mucho on topspin and his smash is relatively weak compared to his level of play. Shetinin next to never attacks but he creates a deadly amount of backspin. Other players who don't rely too much on topsspins and play a more smash based game have less problems with him. |
Posted By: larrytt
Date Posted: 08/16/2005 at 3:51pm
If he's one of those choppers who tries to cover as much of the table with his backhand chop, presumably with long pips, then there are some common tactics you can use. First, serve deep to the backhand long pips, then follow with a loop to the wide forehand. Seems simple, but it's effective if the player's forehand chop is weaker. Players often make the mistake of playing this type of player's "middle" when they are really playing right into the player's backhand chop, which is covering a wider range than other choppers. Second, if at all possible, sidespin loop to the forehand. Choppers who favor one side invariable have less control on the other (usually inverted) side, and can't handle this. Waldner was a master at beating choppers with sidespin loops, and I've seen top players do it to Derek May (former U.S. #1 chopper, 2500+). -Larry Hodges |
Posted By: Cyberswordsman
Date Posted: 08/21/2005 at 6:21pm
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"You can not simply overpower a chopper in the conventional sense."
I disagree. The best chopper in North America, Chris Xu and the best player in North America, Wilson Zhang both hit at the same club as me. Wilson completely overpowers Chris the way no one else can in NA...not even Johnny Huang. Chris can return more of Huangs flat kills than she can Wilson's drives. Chris is good for 2 chops against Wilson....3 if shes lucky....and never a fourth. It's a good thing to witness in person because you hear all this "slow loop" talk all the time when in reality a dominating drive againt heavey backspin is not such an unreasonable goal. Sword ------------- Act is the blossom of thought and joy and suffering are its fruits; thus do we all garner in the sweet and bitter fruitage of our own planting. |
Posted By: larrytt
Date Posted: 08/21/2005 at 7:16pm
The above works because Wilson is a much higher level player than Chris. If Wilson tried that against a chopper his own level, it wouldn't be as effective as if he played more tactically. -Larry Hodges |
Posted By: TT_Freak
Date Posted: 08/22/2005 at 2:31am
| The only player in the world who can truly overpower a chopper is Kong Linghui, and thats because he has perfect form, timing and incredible talent. |
Posted By: lion
Date Posted: 08/22/2005 at 2:56am
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When I play a chopper I find that a mixture of flat drives, moderate loops(top of the bounce), heavy loops (on the fall about table height) and once they're away from the table hard flat pushes works best. (This is assuming that you can get the ball back over the net regularly) The best chopper I play against uses a variety of super spinny chops, light chops, pushes and if you give him enough height super fast topspin drives. He uses mostly his backhand (he has inverted on both sides) and has quick enough reflexes to continually retrieve fast attacks. Points usually are 10 shots each +.
Varying spin, speed and placement of the ball is really the only way to win consistantly against a really good chopper. |
Posted By: mango
Date Posted: 08/22/2005 at 2:57am
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To me the first thing to learn in playing a chopper, which people often neglects, is how to conserve energy. In particular, one has to learn how to 'borrow' the backspin in those transitionary, non-killer loops. Once you are able to do that, there will be more room to employ whatever tactics you like Second, you don't vary your game for the sake of variation. There must be a point in doing so. The ultimate objective is to force your opponents to return a short/high ball which you can loopkill, and you work your game around that. Typically, bringing your opponent back and forth works well. Personally I love the following sequence: Serve long -> loopkill -> push -> loop high and long -> loop short and low -> loopkill |
Posted By: larrytt
Date Posted: 08/22/2005 at 3:05am
There is one time where a good player can often overpower a chopper - the first shot after the attacker's serve. When I play a chopper, I usually serve and rip the first ball. If the chopper makes a good return of that shot, I tend to switch to a steady rolling game, looking for chances to either loop-kill or smash. It's pretty effective - I've beaten three choppers over 2400 that way, David Mahibir (Canada's top chopper at the time), Insook Bhushan (former top ten in the world, 11-time U.S. women's singles champion) and Virginia Sung (rated 2476 when I beat her at the New Jersey Open in 1994). If I tried to rip over and over against any of these three, I wouldn't have had a chance. -Larry Hodges |
Posted By: Cyberswordsman
Date Posted: 08/24/2005 at 11:26am
methinks you should add timo to that list of one.. sword ------------- Act is the blossom of thought and joy and suffering are its fruits; thus do we all garner in the sweet and bitter fruitage of our own planting. |
Posted By: indy
Date Posted: 12/13/2005 at 6:34pm
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larrytt what drills and tips do you used to pratice more to improve better your game against that kind of chopper players.best regards Miguel ------------- mike the best |
Posted By: Thaidog
Date Posted: 01/31/2006 at 2:07pm
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When he steps back to hit chop rallies hit it short... make sure he does not get in a postion where he can just sit back a 5 feet from the table and just keep returning your loops with chops. Defensive players hate that. Hit it short then long... make him run! ------------- Timo ALC FL Tibhar Grip S MAx Tenergy 64 FX National 2.1mm He never boosts... of course he never had to... |
Posted By: Gaute
Date Posted: 01/31/2006 at 2:48pm
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Variation, both spin and where you are placing the ball, drag up a lot of spin to his backhand, then short, looong way out to his backhand again, loop out to his fore hand! Only use forehands against choppers, you have really good time to move your feet.. ------------- Blade: Avalox Rubbers:Donic desto F3 Big slam (both sides) I have stopped gluening now, I play as good without. Donic desto F3 Big slam gives klick anyways... |
Posted By: alfie
Date Posted: 02/16/2006 at 12:22am
| I played a very good chopper tonight .....anything I sent him long came back to me with a viscious backspin like I have not seen before.....I was down 2-0 before I got a sweat on.......no matter what I tried I could not loop his chops.......some of the balls basically stopped before my racket got there....I saw the ball coming to my Fh and as I was swinging the ball just seemed to stop.....anyway after the second game I said something needs to change in a hurry so I started giving him pure sidespin medium distance almost bouncing twice on his side and he popped a few up to my FH and slam......then I gave him nospin short that he returned with a weak push then I could control my next shot and I would put it to his BH that for some reason he would not chop from........on his serves I attacked everything winnings some and losing some but in the end I lost 4-2 but if I would have carried on the way I was going it would have lost 4-0 in a hurry.......I think the key is finding a weakness and also giving them no spin |
Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/07/2006 at 3:48am
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hmm, one of the best players vs. choppers is Waldner, variationj is his game with careful placements. he lost only to a few choppers ------------- Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
Posted By: Gaute
Date Posted: 03/08/2006 at 9:05am
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yes.. Shclager is playing well against choppers to... ------------- Blade: Avalox Rubbers:Donic desto F3 Big slam (both sides) I have stopped gluening now, I play as good without. Donic desto F3 Big slam gives klick anyways... |
Posted By: sluskas
Date Posted: 03/08/2006 at 9:56am
 haha waldner lost to chen xinhua :D ------------- Donic Defplay Senso FH:Donic Slice 40 1.5mm BH:Donic Slice 40 1.2mm str�dl |
Posted By: jc48573
Date Posted: 03/08/2006 at 3:05pm
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my advice...well according to my style. i would go for a loop kill most of the time and basically not give him any time to respond or not let him continue to do a lot of chops. The longer the rallies the more they take advantage of my shots. i just happen to be good at killing their chops and that seems to work for me. Or u can be the patient one where u simply loop consistently and look for the perfect time to attack. the problem w/ loop kill is that it wears u out (and a chance that u will hurt urself), but if u were trained to be a power looper then u will be fine. ------------- Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra, Primorac 2000 CS (traditional only) FH: Globe 999/999T BH: Sriver-D13-L, Sriver EL (RPB) |
Posted By: phrixion
Date Posted: 04/08/2006 at 4:05pm
Wonderful tips, thank you! |
Posted By: sluskas
Date Posted: 04/13/2006 at 11:48am
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service---->hard fast forehadtopspin---->smash---->tschooohaahahaahh and you hit in net douchebag, because you cannot smash a heavy backspin so easy(or can't) ...............d o u c h e b a g z ------------- Donic Defplay Senso FH:Donic Slice 40 1.5mm BH:Donic Slice 40 1.2mm str�dl |
Posted By: phrixion
Date Posted: 04/17/2006 at 1:05pm
Chopper/defensive players try to make you make the first mistake then take advantage of it. If you take that away and don't make the first mistake against a chopper/defensive style player, then there is more likely a chance you will win the point. |
Posted By: master-pong
Date Posted: 04/17/2006 at 2:06pm
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This saturday I had my first match ever against a defender and I won! 3-0!!! 
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Posted By: Sardius User
Date Posted: 05/20/2006 at 3:00am
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Fake the Attack !! Don't loop into the same place always, when you got a chance to kill, send the ball to the opposite side of his previous chop. works on me ! The most important of all when facing a chopper in consistantly when looping, just be patient and wait for the chance to kill.
------------- Blade : Butterfly Sardius FH : Sriver EL BH : Sriver EL |
Posted By: Jolan
Date Posted: 05/20/2006 at 3:43am
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Strange ! No one mentioned that choppers hate backhand topspins. Do a long and fast serve on their pimple BH and loop BH. Beware, their serve returns tend to be fast with poor spin, therefore loop just after the ball bounce and move foreward. Also, do not hesitate to strongly attack their serves because they are still close to the table and have no time to organize themselves. For the rest, see very instructive posts above. Great topic ! ------------- Joola Wyzaryz Freeze Vega pro 2.0mm Vega intro 2.0mm Blade collection : https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9" rel="nofollow - https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9 |
Posted By: sluskas
Date Posted: 05/20/2006 at 4:36pm
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why do they hate Bhtopspins? because the BH topspin is faster that the FH to do? ------------- Donic Defplay Senso FH:Donic Slice 40 1.5mm BH:Donic Slice 40 1.2mm str�dl |
Posted By: DatSuKid
Date Posted: 05/21/2006 at 3:31am
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I lately played with a push/blocker (stays close to the table) I lost 3-2. He gave me lots of low backspin and when I looped them he couldn't return anything. However he gave me lots of trouble with fast pushes, low and slight backspin...
I bet I can beat him now but anyone have any tips for these kinda players? ------------- Hard work and self-determination will surpass talent. Blade-Homemade BirchBalsaBullet (3B JSX) FH - DHS G666 BH - LKT PRO XT |
Posted By: Speedplay
Date Posted: 07/12/2006 at 7:26pm
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I think the key is to play with great variation. I have a chopper at my club and when i face him I try to variate my game. Short-long, even chop back some times and I only hit topspin when there is a good chans of killing the point. Because if I only hit topspin after topspin to him the result will be tremendous backspin for me to handle, and I dont do that very well.
When i feel that attacking is an option I prefer to either smash with no spin or put some sidespin onto the ball. I must say that the sidespin has given me many points. So, my advice is to keep choppers moving all of the time. ------------- The holy grail |
Posted By: kollins
Date Posted: 07/13/2006 at 12:01am
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Iv been doing a lot of chopping lately and spin variation and placement dont really bother me but its the change in pace that messes me up. stay consistent, like the chopper and when you get what you want, place it perfectly and blast it. people who get caught up trying to over power eventually lose. after studying joo's and chen's games they often lose when they are forced to come back and forth and side to side from the table. ------------- Shibutani ST Tackifire C Feint Soft |
Posted By: joubtt
Date Posted: 07/13/2006 at 1:06pm
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What I've seen is that many U.S players can't medium loop, loop fast and spinny, nor flat hit consistently against a defender do to lack of practice, fear and concept. I vary the time, spin, speed, and depth of shot. I like to give them offensive chances so I can save energy and neutralize their offense. Players should work on efficiency of technique and footwork too. It will generally be skill/confidence/energy based. ------------- JUIC Hybrid(Fl) w/999 Chinese sponge JUIC Hybrid(Fl) w/Galaxy 9000 |
Posted By: sluskas
Date Posted: 09/28/2006 at 10:59am
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hhaha look at this how you much play douchebags les videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg29cRUAczI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg29cRUAczI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKDIqnKGTz0&NR - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKDIqnKGTz0&NR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI8HtzEgRks&NR - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI8HtzEgRks&NR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6-YwIcwkG8&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6-YwIcwkG8&mode=related&search =
------------- Donic Defplay Senso FH:Donic Slice 40 1.5mm BH:Donic Slice 40 1.2mm str�dl |
Posted By: thethinker
Date Posted: 09/28/2006 at 4:20pm
|
I have been watching a lot of matches of choppers recently and I heard this over and over again from the commentators:
1. Don't get into a long rally of loops and chops. Get the points over fast and make the attack as surprising as possible (i.e. when the chopper is not looking for the kill). 2. Move the chopper in and out instead of side 2 side. and/or attack the middle of the table. and 3. Don't try to over power the chopper (but you do need a flat kill). I repeat them in summary so that this might help someone by refreshing their memory. Good luck. |
Posted By: pingpongpaddy
Date Posted: 09/29/2006 at 9:10am
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The fundamental thing the chopper is trying to do, is winning by playing one more good stroke, than the attacker.
So while many of the tactics mentioned so far will work part of the time, the thing that the attackers who 'always' beat choppers have, is consistency with control. Obviously Waldner and Kong immediately spring to mind. Watching Waldner he gives the idea that he coul roll for ever, even against the best defenders. "Wait for the right one to power drive or kill". Is one of the well used pieces of advice, in this topic so far. So to be successful in your play aganst chop develop your ability to top spin without error. This equates to be able to roll 'forever' at the speed which puts enough pressure on the defender to make counter smashing dificult. When practicing you should be able to continue perhaps 200 strokes without error in the practice situation. Once you have this ability you will always be able to 'wait for the right ball' to apply those tactics that the guys have been writing about and those choppers will start to find you difficult good luck! ------------- inactive dotec carbokev yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
Posted By: pingpongpaddy
Date Posted: 09/29/2006 at 9:10am
|
The fundamental thing the chopper is trying to do, is winning by playing one more good stroke, than the attacker.
So while many of the tactics mentioned so far will work part of the time, the thing that the attackers who 'always' beat choppers have, is consistency with control. Obviously Waldner and Kong immediately spring to mind. Watching Waldner he gives the idea that he coul roll for ever, even against the best defenders. "Wait for the right one to power drive or kill". Is one of the well used pieces of advice, in this topic so far. So to be successful in your play aganst chop develop your ability to top spin without error. This equates to be able to roll 'forever' at the speed which puts enough pressure on the defender to make counter smashing dificult. When practicing you should be able to continue perhaps 200 strokes without error in the practice situation. Once you have this ability you will always be able to 'wait for the right ball' to apply those tactics that the guys have been writing about and those choppers will start to find you difficult good luck! ------------- inactive dotec carbokev yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
Posted By: darcycudmorepei
Date Posted: 10/27/2006 at 7:43pm
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Take Advantage Of Your Serves. Get As Many Points As You Can And Hold On When He Serves. ------------- http://imageshack.us"> 
|
Posted By: Wawaicetea123
Date Posted: 03/11/2007 at 4:51pm
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first time i played a long pips chopper
oh god he kicked my ass
hahah the day after i learned that if oyu give them under spin that the long pips has a reversal and comes back top spin (if they try to block it) to easily loop into the center of his body so its harder for him to get a good angle i think iv got him next time  ------------- Kreanga Aeros ST FH: Tenergy 05 Red 2.1 BH: Flarestorm II Black 2.1 |
Posted By: albert230770
Date Posted: 03/14/2007 at 2:08pm
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try to play more with chopper which can improve your looping. also u improve your consistent of looping, timing, strength control and placement too. end up both can improve. ------------- Cypress - 1989 / Bryce - Sep 2005 KTS + Bryce - Sep 2006 |
Posted By: forehandloop
Date Posted: 03/14/2007 at 10:36pm
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yessir. choppers and loopers can practise very well together. training will teach them how to cope and overcome the opposite spin
------------- MALIN=Making A Loop Irritate Noobs TIMOBOLL=Tt Includes More Of Body Odour, Lob Lowly SAMSONOV=Slicing A Massive Spin Over Non-Oxygen Vessels MALONG=My Attack Leads Our National Encyclopedia |
Posted By: forehandchop
Date Posted: 03/15/2007 at 4:54am
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you cant beat a chopper with loop. |
Posted By: forehandloop
Date Posted: 03/15/2007 at 7:00am
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yessir you can. forehand loop can counter forehand chop ;)
------------- MALIN=Making A Loop Irritate Noobs TIMOBOLL=Tt Includes More Of Body Odour, Lob Lowly SAMSONOV=Slicing A Massive Spin Over Non-Oxygen Vessels MALONG=My Attack Leads Our National Encyclopedia |
Posted By: forehandsmash
Date Posted: 03/15/2007 at 7:18am
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to kill a chopper off...let me tell u....SERVE TO KILL. if not u r dead. chopper will kill u ------------- Petr Korbel-FL/Sriver/狂飚 III |
Posted By: forehandloop
Date Posted: 03/15/2007 at 7:20am
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serve d ball so it bounces 2 times on d table to unsettle the chopper, then alternate loops on fh and bh
------------- MALIN=Making A Loop Irritate Noobs TIMOBOLL=Tt Includes More Of Body Odour, Lob Lowly SAMSONOV=Slicing A Massive Spin Over Non-Oxygen Vessels MALONG=My Attack Leads Our National Encyclopedia |
Posted By: Markus. L
Date Posted: 03/16/2007 at 1:32am
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first serve short, then you loop drive at him or her, then to his or hers bh, then to his or hers fh, last step repeat in different order excluding the serve part -------------  Nittaku Acoustic-FL
fh/bh-Almana BUTTERFLY Timo Boll TriCarbon-FL fh/bh-Optimum MP DONIC Waldner Senso Carbon |
Posted By: forehandloop
Date Posted: 03/16/2007 at 1:43am
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actually if you are confident about your own chops you can actually play a chopping rally against him/her. a chop vs chop match is always boring, but if you can place the ball relatively low and close to the net you should stand a chance of winning. you have to be flexible and change your playing style, not only sticking to looping or smashing
------------- MALIN=Making A Loop Irritate Noobs TIMOBOLL=Tt Includes More Of Body Odour, Lob Lowly SAMSONOV=Slicing A Massive Spin Over Non-Oxygen Vessels MALONG=My Attack Leads Our National Encyclopedia |
Posted By: elcapitan_thfc
Date Posted: 03/19/2007 at 7:41pm
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I think to play against defence you must variate every part of your game.
When I play defence I serve long to the backhand and short to the forehand. Also after looping one or two, its good to touch some shots short, in fact I think it makes your loops more effective and usually the defender struggles to really make a heavy chop when retreating.
The strong loop I think must go to the middle as choppers find this extremely hard to return and opens the table up to get a good angle!!!
i love playing chop!!
|
Posted By: longreachlooper
Date Posted: 03/24/2007 at 10:33am
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Interesting, nice stuff, but one thing I do not see on this list, is a drop shot now and then........................ |
Posted By: longreachlooper
Date Posted: 03/24/2007 at 10:36am
| I was replying to an OLD post, if someone mentioned a DROP SHOT, then I am suggesting it again. |
Posted By: Jolan
Date Posted: 03/24/2007 at 12:20pm
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2 words : Backhand loop..
Most choppers are acqainted to FH loop in terms of speed, length and spin. I noticed they have much more difficulties returning BH loops because, I think, it might be launched faster and spinnier.
Also, I agree with the usual tactic of playing to the center. ------------- Joola Wyzaryz Freeze Vega pro 2.0mm Vega intro 2.0mm Blade collection : https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9" rel="nofollow - https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9 |
Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 05/10/2007 at 1:11pm
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Upon the chopper lobbing it up to you, maybe try to add in some heavy side/backspin shots. A lot of people use only forehand shots. ------------- 
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Posted By: mdjenders
Date Posted: 06/09/2007 at 12:46am
| I am a chopper, and just like spin variation is key to success as a defender, the same also is true when playing against one. I can eat up all out looping attackers rated a fair bit higher than me, but I struggle against smart allround players that can vary the degree of topspin on their loops, incorporate sidespin in varying degrees, and utilize rolled loops to my pips. |
Posted By: forehandloop
Date Posted: 06/09/2007 at 12:50am
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choppers depend a lot on consistency, both their own and their opponents'. they are strong on the wings, but fast topspin in the centre should unsettle them. alternating loops on the sides would also force them to change the game direction
------------- MALIN=Making A Loop Irritate Noobs TIMOBOLL=Tt Includes More Of Body Odour, Lob Lowly SAMSONOV=Slicing A Massive Spin Over Non-Oxygen Vessels MALONG=My Attack Leads Our National Encyclopedia |
Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 06/09/2007 at 6:25am
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try doing drop shots or placement shots that are difficult for the chopper to return attacking isn't always the answer esp. if the chopper always plays with you and is acquianted with ur spin.. after the chopper has return your short balls or drop shots try looping and placing it on either corners.. the key is unpredictability ------------- Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
Posted By: kmh888
Date Posted: 06/09/2007 at 1:43pm
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be extremely patient. just wait till the chopper pops the ball up then kill it ------------- Gatien Extra FH: Hurricane Provincial BH: Palio CJ800 Speed Special thick glue |
Posted By: bogeyhunter
Date Posted: 06/09/2007 at 3:33pm
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Just play the way you play.
The fact is .....you can't beat chopper!
 |
Posted By: mdjenders
Date Posted: 06/10/2007 at 6:05pm
| One interesting, last-gasp strategy to try when getting murdered by a chopper is to reverse the roles in the match. Serve a long, attackable ball to the chopper's forehand and immediately retreat way back and start lobbing deep with topspin. Sometimes this will rattle the player, forcing them to attack when they are not comfortable doing so on every shot. After lobbing a few to the chopper's forehand side, throw in one to the backhand especially if they are using long pips. The intent is to cause an awkward return that can be killed with a swift charge to the table. This also works nicely against some of the "take it off the bounce" close to the table Neubauer blockers. |
Posted By: varghesep
Date Posted: 07/17/2007 at 11:48am
|
Some players have troubled me by giving heavy underspin serves to my
pips. Sometimes I misunderstand and take the shot as top spin. It is
very hard to return heavy underspin balls by long pips generally. As
anybody struggle against underspin, the heavy underspin balls are
enemies to long pips. ------------- http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16429 - Feedback |
Posted By: mdjenders
Date Posted: 07/17/2007 at 3:21pm
| That is true, varghesep. It depends on what kind of pips and sponge you are using, but it is generally difficult to push against underspin with long pips and return a decent amount of underspin. Without a very aggressive chopping stroke, the end result is a no spin or slight topspin that is waiting to be killed. Twiddling is always a good play for the chopper against this kind of serve to use the inverted for the opening push. |
Posted By: varghesep
Date Posted: 08/02/2007 at 8:17am
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You are correct. ------------- http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16429 - Feedback |
Posted By: HunkyTonk
Date Posted: 08/10/2007 at 2:55am
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Hmm...ok...this is what you should do:
Choppers usually weak on their drives...so serve with alotta mount of sidespin then push hard to the corner, followed with a hard smash
or (my fav)
Serve short, then loop (full power) his return, followed with a hard smash.
When playing against chopper, set your tactics right, dont give him a chance to think. ------------- Schlager Carbon Fh-Coppa JO Gold, BH-Donic F3 http://www.tenismeja.tk - http://www.tenismeja.tk |
Posted By: Spindrive@50
Date Posted: 08/18/2007 at 7:22am
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Yes, a chopper or anyone defensively oriented player, is actually a kind of irritating, frustrating yet entertaining opponent.
If he/she is a regular game playing partner, I'd like to not to beat them but develop the consistency in my looping skills, stamina and in the long run, also be able to develop strategic placement combination which could expose their weaknesses.
Anyone chopper is different from one another so it really takes time to learn how to defeat them and playing against them requires an attitude of patience, perseverance and great stamina.
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Posted By: bogeyhunter
Date Posted: 08/18/2007 at 7:48am
Read the one posted after you. That one is good.
|
Posted By: HunkyTonk
Date Posted: 08/19/2007 at 12:10am
------------- Schlager Carbon Fh-Coppa JO Gold, BH-Donic F3 http://www.tenismeja.tk - http://www.tenismeja.tk |
