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Memorable breakthroughs

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    Posted: 02/09/2020 at 7:26pm
I think it is fun to share your memorable  breakthroughs during your table tennis career. It can be either a change of blade, sudden changes in serve returns. It can be either a breakthrough to 1500, 2000, or 2200.

Edited by kindof99 - 02/09/2020 at 9:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2020 at 8:49pm
I had a huge jump in level when I switched from 7ply wood + hurricane 8 setup to a Hurricane Long V with H3 provincial blue sponge FH + H3 provincial 37 deg orange sponge for BH). 

The next jump was learning how to do a very nasty sidespin chopblock return of serve on my BH, this increased the spin on my BH pushes significantly such that I can make my spinny deep pushes close to unloopable. So basically if even if I can't read the serve well enough, I can push on my return of serve (even fast long topspin serves lol) I rarely lose the point directly and because I have good loop defense I can give my opponents nightmare even if they do their opening loop successfully. Having very heavy pushes on both wings also made my no-spin pushes even more deadly when opponent are not reading it properly. Learning the chop-smash also gave me another weapon to use for opportunity balls. I used to lose a lot of points with unforced errors because I blindly attacked poor service returns by my opponent, a good push allows me to not lose the point and let the opponent make the mistakes themselves.

The other huge jump was to consolidate all my FH serves (pendulum, reverse pendulum, hook serves, heavy under/no-spin, tomahawk) so that they all start from the exact same starting movement. I learnt to serve them extremely deep, fast and spinny to both corners + elbow coupled with short serves at extreme short corners and I ditched the serves to the middle (they're useless lol). I now regularly get about 4 direct serve points per game even against very good players and even more against players with bad serve receive. 

Now some opponents are learning not to loop against me where they would lose badly but rather play a safe pushing game with me, this means I actually get lots of attacking opportunities if I wanted to attack. Unfortunately, my opening loop is just not at the same level as my serve and push game.

So now I'm mostly working on my opening loop. I used to see the opening loop as a tool to transitioning to a open topspin rally situation, but I found out that a lot of players are way better than me in the topspin rally game, so I actually lost a lot more points when I did an opening loop because I got out-rallied.  So now I'm working hard to win the point outright or create a opportunity with my opening loop spin variation through some very nasty placements (sidespin loops exiting the side of the table or into the opponent's elbow), fake loops to complement my normal opening loops. But definitely a work in progress...



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2020 at 9:12pm
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Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I had a huge jump in level when I switched from 7ply wood + hurricane 8 setup to a Hurricane Long V with H3 provincial blue sponge FH + H3 provincial 37 deg orange sponge for BH). 

The next jump was learning how to do a very nasty sidespin chopblock return of serve on my BH, this increased the spin on my BH pushes significantly such that I can make my spinny deep pushes close to unloopable. So basically if even if I can't read the serve well enough, I can push on my return of serve (even fast long topspin serves lol) I rarely lose the point directly and because I have good loop defense I can give my opponents nightmare even if they do their opening loop successfully. Having very heavy pushes on both wings also made my no-spin pushes even more deadly when opponent are not reading it properly. Learning the chop-smash also gave me another weapon to use for opportunity balls. I used to lose a lot of points with unforced errors because I blindly attacked poor service returns by my opponent, a good push allows me to not lose the point and let the opponent make the mistakes themselves.

The other huge jump was to consolidate all my FH serves (pendulum, reverse pendulum, hook serves, heavy under/no-spin, tomahawk) so that they all start from the exact same starting movement. I learnt to serve them extremely deep, fast and spinny to both corners + elbow coupled with short serves at extreme short corners and I ditched the serves to the middle (they're useless lol). I now regularly get about 4 direct serve points per game even against very good players and even more against players with bad serve receive. 

Now some opponents are learning not to loop against me where they would lose badly but rather play a safe pushing game with me, this means I actually get lots of attacking opportunities if I wanted to attack. Unfortunately, my opening loop is just not at the same level as my serve and push game.

So now I'm mostly working on my opening loop. I used to see the opening loop as a tool to transitioning to a open topspin rally situation, but I found out that a lot of players are way better than me in the topspin rally game, so I actually lost a lot more points when I did an opening loop because I got out-rallied.  So now I'm working hard to win the point outright or create a opportunity with my opening loop spin variation through some very nasty placements (sidespin loops exiting the side of the table or into the opponent's elbow), fake loops to complement my normal opening loops. But definitely a work in progress...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2020 at 8:44am
Two things at different times.  Nothing to do with equipment.  Things that were quite conceptual.

1. When I learned how to serve effectively.  That only came after a coach taught me to think about what it was that made a serve good. Free and easy points are nice!

2. Later when I got older,  I learned that the vast majority of training should entail at least some moving to get to the ball, and that a lot of training where you hit the same shot repeatedly from the same place could make you worse (unless you have some very specific thing you are trying to change).  One can learn to compensate for a lot of youthful explosiveness by learning to move smoothly and efficiently.  

One thing that triggered this was when this guy from Serbia visited our club.  He was at least 50 pounds overweight and late 40.s.  Also a heavy smoker.  He moved really well. Better than me! I figured if he could do it I could do it.  Later in the week I saw how he practised.  Later I learned that in his prime he had been a top 30 player in Yugoslavia.




Edited by Baal - 02/10/2020 at 8:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2020 at 12:03pm
For me, it was to switching to short pips in my BH during the 2015 US Open. 

As a kid, I always struggled with my inverted BH, being too defensive (I won too many points on pushes as a kid), too inconsistent in my BH loops (never learned the proper technique), and playing with a too open bat angle on BH blocks, resulting in overshooting the table. 

Disgusted with an absolutely unnecessary 5-set loss on Day 2 of the tournament in the U2250 (blocking was once again my problem), I bought a sheet of 802-40 from Zeropong, practiced for 1 hour (I had played with short pips for 2-3 months, 25 years earlier), and went on to play U2100 and O30 reaching the QFs of both, and winning my first ever matches against 2200 level players, including against an opponent whose playing style I admire. My natural grip and bat angle, simply seems to be a much better fit for short pips.

The tournament results moved from 2k to 2.1k. Subsequent practice - and switching from Euro-style rubbers to Hurricane 8 and then Hurricane 3, and over to 7-ply blades - allowed me to breach 2.2k and I haven't given up hope yet on advancing further. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote serr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2020 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I had a huge jump in level when I switched from 7ply wood + hurricane 8 setup to a Hurricane Long V with H3 provincial blue sponge FH + H3 provincial 37 deg orange sponge for BH). 

The next jump was learning how to do a very nasty sidespin chopblock return of serve on my BH, this increased the spin on my BH pushes significantly such that I can make my spinny deep pushes close to unloopable. So basically if even if I can't read the serve well enough, I can push on my return of serve (even fast long topspin serves lol) I rarely lose the point directly and because I have good loop defense I can give my opponents nightmare even if they do their opening loop successfully. Having very heavy pushes on both wings also made my no-spin pushes even more deadly when opponent are not reading it properly. Learning the chop-smash also gave me another weapon to use for opportunity balls. I used to lose a lot of points with unforced errors because I blindly attacked poor service returns by my opponent, a good push allows me to not lose the point and let the opponent make the mistakes themselves.

The other huge jump was to consolidate all my FH serves (pendulum, reverse pendulum, hook serves, heavy under/no-spin, tomahawk) so that they all start from the exact same starting movement. I learnt to serve them extremely deep, fast and spinny to both corners + elbow coupled with short serves at extreme short corners and I ditched the serves to the middle (they're useless lol). I now regularly get about 4 direct serve points per game even against very good players and even more against players with bad serve receive. 

Now some opponents are learning not to loop against me where they would lose badly but rather play a safe pushing game with me, this means I actually get lots of attacking opportunities if I wanted to attack. Unfortunately, my opening loop is just not at the same level as my serve and push game.

So now I'm mostly working on my opening loop. I used to see the opening loop as a tool to transitioning to a open topspin rally situation, but I found out that a lot of players are way better than me in the topspin rally game, so I actually lost a lot more points when I did an opening loop because I got out-rallied.  So now I'm working hard to win the point outright or create a opportunity with my opening loop spin variation through some very nasty placements (sidespin loops exiting the side of the table or into the opponent's elbow), fake loops to complement my normal opening loops. But definitely a work in progress...



What's your rating? Do you have any videos of you playing?
Your style description looks very interesting. It's good to have your practice sessions planned, I need to learn from you - I often get stuck not knowing what to practice lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2020 at 4:17pm
Really nice inputs so far.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2020 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by serr serr wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I had a huge jump in level when I switched from 7ply wood + hurricane 8 setup to a Hurricane Long V with H3 provincial blue sponge FH + H3 provincial 37 deg orange sponge for BH). 

The next jump was learning how to do a very nasty sidespin chopblock return of serve on my BH, this increased the spin on my BH pushes significantly such that I can make my spinny deep pushes close to unloopable. So basically if even if I can't read the serve well enough, I can push on my return of serve (even fast long topspin serves lol) I rarely lose the point directly and because I have good loop defense I can give my opponents nightmare even if they do their opening loop successfully. Having very heavy pushes on both wings also made my no-spin pushes even more deadly when opponent are not reading it properly. Learning the chop-smash also gave me another weapon to use for opportunity balls. I used to lose a lot of points with unforced errors because I blindly attacked poor service returns by my opponent, a good push allows me to not lose the point and let the opponent make the mistakes themselves.

The other huge jump was to consolidate all my FH serves (pendulum, reverse pendulum, hook serves, heavy under/no-spin, tomahawk) so that they all start from the exact same starting movement. I learnt to serve them extremely deep, fast and spinny to both corners + elbow coupled with short serves at extreme short corners and I ditched the serves to the middle (they're useless lol). I now regularly get about 4 direct serve points per game even against very good players and even more against players with bad serve receive. 

Now some opponents are learning not to loop against me where they would lose badly but rather play a safe pushing game with me, this means I actually get lots of attacking opportunities if I wanted to attack. Unfortunately, my opening loop is just not at the same level as my serve and push game.

So now I'm mostly working on my opening loop. I used to see the opening loop as a tool to transitioning to a open topspin rally situation, but I found out that a lot of players are way better than me in the topspin rally game, so I actually lost a lot more points when I did an opening loop because I got out-rallied.  So now I'm working hard to win the point outright or create a opportunity with my opening loop spin variation through some very nasty placements (sidespin loops exiting the side of the table or into the opponent's elbow), fake loops to complement my normal opening loops. But definitely a work in progress...



What's your rating? Do you have any videos of you playing?
Your style description looks very interesting. It's good to have your practice sessions planned, I need to learn from you - I often get stuck not knowing what to practice lol.

I don't really have a rating (not in the US, in Australia at the moment), but am competitive with people who play in second division leagues here (I don't play league due to lack of time and its way too far away)...

I actually used to attack with loops a lot more until I realised that with very good serves, pushes and blocks you can play a very deceptive spin and placement variation game which has very few unforced errors and still induce a lot of unforced errors from your opponents. It's a complicated game similar to pips players tbh except with inverted lol... If I could add deceptive opening loops to this I would really level up because then I can pressure my opponents to attack more (and miss more) to fall into my gameplan, basically if they didn't attack I could just simply take the initiative to win the point decisively. I was inspired by a pips player who could defend everything that you threw at him, and if you ever gave him a slow ball he would just attack with the pips and it was devastating to most opponents. 

Edit: I was looking more into this match between Waldner and Timo at the 2004 Olympics. It was really interesting when Waldner looped cross-court to Timo's BH, he was using some immense contact and spin variation because when Timo blocked it sometimes it just died in the net, other times it kicked so hard that the ball just flew out. This is the kind of effect I want to achieve with my opening loops rather than trying to overpower my opponents. 




Edited by blahness - 02/10/2020 at 6:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilkinru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2020 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Two things at different times.  Nothing to do with equipment.  Things that were quite conceptual.
One thing that triggered this was when this guy from Serbia visited our club.  He was at least 50 pounds overweight and late 40.s.  Also a heavy smoker.  He moved really well. Better than me! I figured if he could do it I could do it.  Later in the week I saw how he practised.  Later I learned that in his prime he had been a top 30 player in Yugoslavia.




How did he practice? I'm looking to make my practice more match like with atleast a hint of footwork.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote larrytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2020 at 7:18pm
Here's my big breaththrough story, taken from my blog on Nov. 5, 2013

In 1980, when I was 20, I was living in Wilson, North Carolina, training every day at the Butterfly Table Tennis Center. My highest rating achieved at the time was 1954, but I'd been stuck at around 1850 for the past two years. I entered four events in the North Carolina Open - Open Singles, Open Doubles (with Tom Poston), Under 2100, and Under 22. I wasn't seeded in Open Singles or Under 2100, and I was one of the lower seeds in Open Doubles and Under 22.

After pulling off an early-round upset I ate a quarter pounder with cheese from the McDonalds down the street. When I pulled off another upset, I had another. Every time I pulled off an upset I ate one. We'll now jump all the way to the final of Open Singles. At this point, here is the situation:

  • -I've won Open Doubles
  • -I've won Under 2100
  • -I've won Under 22
  • -I've eaten NINE quarter pounders with cheese in the course of about five hours
  • -I'm bent over in agony with a stomachache and am nauseous
  • -I'm in the final of Open Singles against Fred King, a 2200 player
  • -Fred is serving up 17-13 in the fifth (games were to 21 in those days and you served five times in a row)

Despite constantly clutching my stomach in agony between points, and attacking nearly every ball with my forehand (both looping and smashing), I win all five points on Fred's serve to lead 18-17, and finally eke out the win, 21-19 in the fifth. I swept all four events I entered, and it was a major event in my playing career as I jumped from 1850 level to around 2100. But I came out in such agony I almost went to the hospital. At that point the very sight of a hamburger made me nauseous.

Over the next twenty years I didn't eat a single hamburger or cheeseburger. I'd eat meatballs in spaghetti and sloppy joes, but somehow a straight hamburger or cheeseburger brought back memories of that intense stomachache and nauseousness. Then, at the 2000 Junior Olympics, I told the story to our group of 30 Maryland juniors at dinner the night before the competition. They asked me what they had to do to get me to eat one. I said if they won over half the gold medals, I'd do so. Guess what? They did. (Actually, they did this nearly every year in the 1990s through the early 2000s.) So at dinner afterwards, while everyone watched, I ate a cheeseburger. I put lots and lots of lettuce, tomato, and onions on it to drown out the hamburger, and managed to survive.

I haven't eaten another one since. [EDIT: Still haven't.]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twiddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2020 at 6:22pm
In 1971 I had a Kenny style paddle with Butterfly soft d-13 1.5 on both sides.
I was mainly into baseball and ping-pong was just a fun game to me then. I had played in a few 
TT tourneys and I read that a French defensive player had defeated Stellan Bengtsson, world champion, and he had a new sponge called anti spin.I thought since I only use one side of the paddle with my style I would give it a try. At 1st it seemed like garbage -slow and useless. I then went to a huge tourney in Minneapolis held at the Macy's department store. The anti worked wonders. My serve return baffled nearly all the players. I won Class A and made the semifinals of Open I believe. Called my brother and told him it was amazing what I was experiencing because no one had ever played against an antispin rubber. They were both red in color but the color was clearly different yet no one could make the connection. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2020 at 7:30pm
I'm just going to mention some things that popped into my mind now. I might add more later.

The first one is around my level, if I do a stop or short push return, most my opponents just tap the ball back in short. The ball might be short, but nearly always pops up a bit and rarely has any dangerous amount of backspin on it. These balls are really easy to attack over the table. Not pushing these back and giving my opponent an even easier ball has won me a lot of points.

Another one is something I've been practicing recently. Against backspin or really any backhand ball as long as I have some time, it's better to put my weight on my playing foot (so as a left hander, having my weight shifted onto my left foot for backhands, the same foot as I do for my forehands). I find my backhand openings are much more consistent this way. I used to always transfer from left to right for forehands, and right to left for backhands as a left hander.

Another one is trying to contact the ball on the left for backhands (as a left hander). This forces me to have my wrist turned in towards my body a bit. I feel like any ball I hit like that has much more quality. Until then my wrist used to be pretty much straight for all backhands.

Another one is adjusting my ready position to be more towards the left or right depending on if my opponent is serving from the middle or the sides of the table. Wide serves were suddenly a lot easier to return.

There are definitely more, though!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vik2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2020 at 7:38pm
This is a fantastic thread. Props to those sharing their experiences. It's a nice break for all the pointless equipment related threads Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2020 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

I'm just going to mention some things that popped into my mind now. I might add more later.

The first one is around my level, if I do a stop or short push return, most my opponents just tap the ball back in short. The ball might be short, but nearly always pops up a bit and rarely has any dangerous amount of backspin on it. These balls are really easy to attack over the table. Not pushing these back and giving my opponent an even easier ball has won me a lot of points.

Another one is something I've been practicing recently. Against backspin or really any backhand ball as long as I have some time, it's better to put my weight on my playing foot (so as a left hander, having my weight shifted onto my left foot for backhands, the same foot as I do for my forehands). I find my backhand openings are much more consistent this way. I used to always transfer from left to right for forehands, and right to left for backhands as a left hander.

Another one is trying to contact the ball on the left for backhands (as a left hander). This forces me to have my wrist turned in towards my body a bit. I feel like any ball I hit like that has much more quality. Until then my wrist used to be pretty much straight for all backhands.

Another one is adjusting my ready position to be more towards the left or right depending on if my opponent is serving from the middle or the sides of the table. Wide serves were suddenly a lot easier to return.

There are definitely more, though!
 
You mean contacting the ball on the right for backhands right? I'm doing similar as well, basically I feel that I can put a lot more spin and power (i.e. quality) into the ball with this movement. 

For me the BH loop is simply a larger version of the chiquita haha...


Edited by blahness - 02/11/2020 at 8:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2020 at 9:30pm
Yep, that's it. It was a really simple thing a coach told me to do that completely changed my backhand.

The straight wrist was limiting me a lot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2020 at 4:52am
Just to make sure re the backhand tip, you mean the LEFT side for a left hander? So that it's NOT like a chiquita/ banana flick, correct?

And to keep going on the theme of backhand revelations (and linked to one of your points): I noticed that during practice my backhand in multiball and drils is much better if I actually prepare for a forehand, specifically in terms of weight distribution and elbow position. If I too consciously prepare for a backhand then my elbow comes in too much and my weight goes on to my left side. 

A bigger deal for me was when I finally realised that I need to keep my weight on the front of my feet in order to have better footwork and that this takes conscious effort.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2020 at 6:37am
Hi,

Just to make sure re the backhand tip, you mean the LEFT side for a left hander? So that it's NOT like a chiquita/ banana flick, correct?

From my reading of his interesting post, I believe he expressed it correctly.  This technique, when you drop the tip down as one does with a banana, you ease the requirement of counteracting the effects of the oncoming ball's underspin.

The limitation that does arise is that it makes it much more difficult to drive the ball with considerable ball speed, as the nature of this technique features ball spin.  Those that hold affection for this technique, as described, are not seeking a Lee Sangsu result, but a spin-oriented shot that contains some deception in that it often contains the effects of sidespin.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2020 at 6:59am
Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Just to make sure re the backhand tip, you mean the LEFT side for a left hander? So that it's NOT like a chiquita/ banana flick, correct?

And to keep going on the theme of backhand revelations (and linked to one of your points): I noticed that during practice my backhand in multiball and drils is much better if I actually prepare for a forehand, specifically in terms of weight distribution and elbow position. If I too consciously prepare for a backhand then my elbow comes in too much and my weight goes on to my left side. 

A bigger deal for me was when I finally realised that I need to keep my weight on the front of my feet in order to have better footwork and that this takes conscious effort.

I believe he meant the right side for a leftie, for you it would be the left side of the ball....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2020 at 10:41am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Yep, that's it. It was a really simple thing a coach told me to do that completely changed my backhand.

The straight wrist was limiting me a lot.

Not this?

I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2020 at 6:49pm
My first improvement was when I sat my ITTF coaching course in 2006
although I played for 30 years and was a  ok player
I learnt things like aiming at the cross over point, being in ready position and feet position for the backhand
 Later in 2009 I started a table tennis shop and started coaching more and traveling around to play inter-club ,more competitions, National and Veterans events (this mean over 40' + etc)
I have since won some Gold medals at the Nationals

Some things that helped me was being confident and setting goals and the pimples Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2020 at 8:48pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Yep, that's it. It was a really simple thing a coach told me to do that completely changed my backhand.

The straight wrist was limiting me a lot.

Not this?


Nice video


Edited by kindof99 - 02/12/2020 at 8:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2020 at 12:09am
Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Just to make sure re the backhand tip, you mean the LEFT side for a left hander? So that it's NOT like a chiquita/ banana flick, correct?

Yeah, I mean the left side of the ball for a left hander when doing backhands. It forces you to bend your wrist inward. I haven't had a chance to watch NL's video yet, but seeing the title, doing this does make it a lot easier to go down the line. But you should go cross court with a bent wrist too. The contact point would be a little more towards the right in that case.

I feel like for me, I was initially contacting the ball way too far on the right, and so my coach advised me to contact the left. Thinking about contacting it on the left ended up having more of a topspin ball (instead of the banana style sidespin ball).

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I believe he meant the right side for a leftie, for you it would be the left side of the ball....

Sorry blahness. I might have misunderstood you the other post you made when I said that's it. But I mean contacting it on the left side of the ball for a leftie.


Edited by mickd - 02/13/2020 at 12:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2020 at 12:18am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Just to make sure re the backhand tip, you mean the LEFT side for a left hander? So that it's NOT like a chiquita/ banana flick, correct?

Yeah, I mean the left side of the ball for a left hander when doing backhands. It forces you to bend your wrist inward. I haven't had a chance to watch NL's video yet, but seeing the title, doing this does make it a lot easier to go down the line. But you should go cross court with a bent wrist too. The contact point would be a little more towards the right in that case.

I feel like for me, I was initially contacting the ball way too far on the right, and so my coach advised me to contact the left. Thinking about contacting it on the left ended up having more of a topspin ball (instead of the banana style sidespin ball).

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I believe he meant the right side for a leftie, for you it would be the left side of the ball....

Sorry blahness. I might have misunderstood you the other post you made when I said that's it. But I mean contacting it on the left side of the ball for a leftie.

It might have been an adjustment based on your specific stroke.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2020 at 1:45am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Just to make sure re the backhand tip, you mean the LEFT side for a left hander? So that it's NOT like a chiquita/ banana flick, correct?

Yeah, I mean the left side of the ball for a left hander when doing backhands. It forces you to bend your wrist inward. I haven't had a chance to watch NL's video yet, but seeing the title, doing this does make it a lot easier to go down the line. But you should go cross court with a bent wrist too. The contact point would be a little more towards the right in that case.

I feel like for me, I was initially contacting the ball way too far on the right, and so my coach advised me to contact the left. Thinking about contacting it on the left ended up having more of a topspin ball (instead of the banana style sidespin ball).

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I believe he meant the right side for a leftie, for you it would be the left side of the ball....

Sorry blahness. I might have misunderstood you the other post you made when I said that's it. But I mean contacting it on the left side of the ball for a leftie.

Ahh I think I know what you mean now, basically it's turning the blade such that the tip is directed towards your hip for the preparatory movement... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2020 at 4:24am
Yeah, NL. It was specifically for me. But I think it's another way to think about it for people who may be struggling to naturally use their wrists. It might work or it might not.

And yeah blahness. Whenever I did that consciously, it never worked well because I ended up using too much wrist instead of letting the forearm lead the wrist. But contacting the ball on the side without changing anything else just magically helped my body make the adjustments to add a consistent and relaxed wrist movement without having to think about adding wrist.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2020 at 8:09am
Were you playing the ball down the line or cross court?
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2020 at 8:52am
In matches I tend to play down the line a lot because it's naturally easier to do so. But during that practice session when he was getting me to contact the left side, I was going cross court.

I think for me it was more of a different way of thinking to help me achieve a specific outcome like you mentioned in an earlier post.

I guess my brain adjusts for the cross court balls even if I'm thinking about contacting the left side of the ball. So realistically for those balls, I was probably contacting more towards the back/middle than the left. And my swing was probably going towards the direction of cross court. But having that image of contacting the left helped get my wrist in check.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2020 at 10:52am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

In matches I tend to play down the line a lot because it's naturally easier to do so. But during that practice session when he was getting me to contact the left side, I was going cross court.

I think for me it was more of a different way of thinking to help me achieve a specific outcome like you mentioned in an earlier post.

I guess my brain adjusts for the cross court balls even if I'm thinking about contacting the left side of the ball. So realistically for those balls, I was probably contacting more towards the back/middle than the left. And my swing was probably going towards the direction of cross court. But having that image of contacting the left helped get my wrist in check.

Having a mental image of your contact point relative to your stroke is always helpful, even if the point is mental fiction.  In reality, you may be hitting the ball very differently from what you think, but the relative changes do matter for your technique and your ability to control the ball effectively.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2020 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Yeah, NL. It was specifically for me. But I think it's another way to think about it for people who may be struggling to naturally use their wrists. It might work or it might not.

And yeah blahness. Whenever I did that consciously, it never worked well because I ended up using too much wrist instead of letting the forearm lead the wrist. But contacting the ball on the side without changing anything else just magically helped my body make the adjustments to add a consistent and relaxed wrist movement without having to think about adding wrist.

Haha I understand what you mean. Sometimes what you think is not what  you do but it helps to correct the stroke. For me the ideal cross court BH has the tip of the bat going from 7oclock to 2oclock roughly, but I still contact at around 10-11 o'clock ie slightly to the left of the ball for crosscourt and around 9o'clock for straight line. But I mainly control the direction with my hips rather than arm movement, if I was going down the line the hips just go forward, whereas if I was going diagonal I use a lot more rotation in the hips. 

In terms of the spin I think the contact point is not the determining factor but the type of contact, if you go around the side of the ball it will be more sidespin and if you go around the top of the ball it will be more topspin.  As a righty I can contact the ball on the right with my BH but it still would have huge amounts of sidespin if I brushed around the side of the ball.  


Edited by blahness - 02/13/2020 at 5:49pm
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