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blahness View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03/15/2020 at 5:30pm
Is it just me or penholder pushes are 10x harder to attack than shakehand pushes? It's quite crazy the amount of spin and directional variation that they produce just from different strokes of the wrist....

I tried my BH loop in the club against shakehand players and it worked well, against the penholders who jammed my BH like no other it was still half half in terms of landing percentages :( 
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smackman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/15/2020 at 6:41pm
You are talking about a style of play, a pen-holder can push easy  (especially on the forehand side) as their blade is naturally pointing forward and therefor easy to jab over the table
Where a shake-hander will tend the push with their blade more even with the end line
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mahuJrmex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/15/2020 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by smackman smackman wrote:

as their blade is naturally pointing forward and therefor easy to jab over the table
Where a shake-hander will tend the push with their blade more even with the end line

Also the length of the racket is usually more than the width and the ball travels all the way from tip to handle creating lots of back spin. The JPen rackets have even more length than Cpen.

BTW in China, the penhold grip itself is called the vertical grip & the shakehand grip is called the horizontal grip. You will see this jargon used in almost all Ali Express racket or blade sale ads.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/15/2020 at 7:27pm
At lower levels (below USATT 2000)  I have run into a bunch of pen holders whose push seems to be at a much higher level than their overall game.  What I have noticed with these players is that they often have much weaker pushes against deep underspin to their Bh.  Often I serve short under, get a heavy push return, then push all that spin back deep to Bh ( instead of trying to open), and then open against the weaker push.  Of course if they have a really good RPB opening I can not get away with it.  But if they are under 2000 there is good chance they do not have one.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/15/2020 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

At lower levels (below USATT 2000)  I have run into a bunch of pen holders whose push seems to be at a much higher level than their overall game.  What I have noticed with these players is that they often have much weaker pushes against deep underspin to their Bh.  Often I serve short under, get a heavy push return, then push all that spin back deep to Bh ( instead of trying to open), and then open against the weaker push.  Of course if they have a really good RPB opening I can not get away with it.  But if they are under 2000 there is good chance they do not have one.

Mark

Sometimes I rather face their opening loops than their pushes. Unless they attack strongly into the corners or my middle (which they'll have to take some risks to get to), I think I have quite a high point winning percentage against them if they open up, because I often block them successfully and enter the topspin rally stage which I'm favored most of the time. 

The problem is that they can impart much heavier spin on the ball (and the good players even have a fake push where there's close to no spin), which is a lot harder to read compared to a shakehander push, not to mention the extreme angles that they often have. 

I also adopt your approach of pushing back rather than opening up directly especially if the incoming push is nasty and loaded, and then only attack the next ball.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/16/2020 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by mahuJrmex mahuJrmex wrote:

Originally posted by smackman smackman wrote:

as their blade is naturally pointing forward and therefor easy to jab over the table
Where a shake-hander will tend the push with their blade more even with the end line


Also the length of the racket is usually more than the width and the ball travels all the way from tip to handle creating lots of back spin. The JPen rackets have even more length than Cpen .

BTW in China, the penhold grip itself is called the vertical grip & the shakehand grip is called the horizontal grip. You will see this jargon used in almost all Ali Express racket or blade sale ads.  



actually slow photography shows that on spin shots the contact footprint is very small. i agree it does feel like the ball travels along the racket though
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