Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  Help Desk Help Desk  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - USATT HPChair Bruce Liu quit due to CEOs autocracy
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

USATT HPChair Bruce Liu quit due to CEOs autocracy

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
ping pong enthusiast View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 10/29/2020
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ping pong enthusiast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: USATT HPChair Bruce Liu quit due to CEOs autocracy
    Posted: 10/29/2020 at 8:17am
USATT High Performance Committee chairman Bruce Liu surprisingly resigned from his position due to the autocrazy of USATT's CEO Virginia Sung.

https://www.facebook.com/630464840736978/photos/a.1037369433379848/1037354453381346

He mentioned that selection procedures which had been fully discussed and agreed upon by the HP committee for months suddenly have been voted out because of the CEO's strong recommendation and "that there may be something going on behind the scenes I am not aware of" because publications of committee minutes have been removed and blocked without him being informed after they had already been published.

There have already been rumors before that Bruce Liu lost confindence in the CEO's leadership due to her power-obsessed and dictatorial actions and now it obviosly collapsed.

Bruce Liu has some support in the commumity and hopefully he will pick up a fight against this injustice. It seems like he didn't agree on being just a puppet in the CEO's dollhouse like many others unfortunately are.

I am wondering what the new Board of Directors, especially the three independent representatives, Richard Char, Kelly Watson and Sergio Garcia think about this incident.

"Dear players, parents, and coaches:

I've resigned from from the position of Chair of the High Performance Committee of USATT. The screenshot was my resignation turned in on 10/27.

HPC was so close to bring a balanced, fair, and objective Selection Procedures for the future US National Teams. However, the mission was derailed at the last minutes.

Here are the links of the two meeting minutes published on the USATT website but were taken down on 10/26. Some of you might have seen them.
09/29/2020 Meeting Minutes: https://bit.ly/34ySTXU
10/13/2020 Meeting Minutes: https://bit.ly/2TzKRHS

I feel I owe players, parents, and coaches this much to tell them what actually happened.

Do not hesitate to let me know if you have further questions.

Regards,
Bruce Liu"



Edited by ping pong enthusiast - 10/29/2020 at 8:44am
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
mjamja View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 05/30/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2556
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2020 at 9:37pm
I am beginning to wonder whether or not removing TT from the Olympics would be the best thing to actually help US table tennis.

Mark
Back to Top
lgxb View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 09/10/2016
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 195
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lgxb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2020 at 10:24pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

I am beginning to wonder whether or not removing TT from the Olympics would be the best thing to actually help US table tennis.

Mark

Why is that?
Back to Top
mjamja View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 05/30/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2556
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2020 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by lgxb lgxb wrote:

Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

I am beginning to wonder whether or not removing TT from the Olympics would be the best thing to actually help US table tennis.

Mark

Why is that?

Because so much time, money, and conflict is around 32 adults, 32 juniors, 32 cadets, and 32 mini-cadets who are trying for olympic and national team spots.  With no TT in olympics the USOC would be out of USATT and maybe we could focus attention on say the 7000 players not seeking those spots.

Of course there are potential drawbacks too. 

After attending the open meeting at last years US Open and seeing everything focused on the situation of maybe 16 players seeking Olympic spots and almost nothing about how things were going to affect average members nor addressing the financial issues I just felt USATT could care less about me (especially if I kept sending in membership money).

Mark
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 3775
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2020 at 11:20pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

I am beginning to wonder whether or not removing TT from the Olympics would be the best thing to actually help US table tennis.

Mark

The TT world certainly doesn't circle around the US. US TT is but a tiny, insignificant fish in a large pond.
-------
Hurricane Long 5

FH: Hurricane 3 Provincial Blue Sponge
BH: Dignics 09c
Back to Top
DonnOlsen View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/15/2008
Location: Maryland, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1055
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2020 at 3:18am
Hi,

Following a line of thinking expressed in this thread, an alternative approach would be for table tennis to remain in the Olympics, but the U.S. not participate in this Olympic sport.

The basis of the argument mentioned in an earlier post is the overweening consumption of the various forms of USATT resources, including time, attention, and priority, to the detrimental displacement of other matters more impactful to the paying and playing membership of the organization.

Long it has been true the narrative of the sport's pinnacle being Olympic success.  Few notions are imbued with such a purity of vision.  This unqualified adulation justifies surpassing organizational commitment.  Moreover, no deterrence surfaces when the uncompetitiveness of the U.S. players is broached, as quickly it is noted the attention now, and in four years, and in the following four years from then, is the requisite prelude to the future U.S. golden moments.

Thanks.       
Optimal table tennis body fat percentages:
Men    8 - 15%
Women 16 - 22%
Back to Top
mDaviss View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 10/30/2020
Location: Oakland,CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote mDaviss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2020 at 5:02pm
I partially agree with what Mark says but it makes no sense for USA not to participate in Olympics if it exists.  Doesn't USOC kind of control USATT for all practical purposes ?

 A better approach would be to have a second independent association like USTTAA with an independent set of rules designed for all ages and styles of play and not just juniors & youth. 

I think table tennis needs Olympics and table tennis is not a sport at the level of American FootBall or Australian FootBall or Golf or Cricket etc.  

As someone posted here today, independent ratings are available. USTTAA can adopt this ratings system or use Ratings Central.

If I remember correctly there was some big fuss about getting Table Tennis removed from Olympics twenty or so years ago. But it could still happen after 2021 if IOC is properly motivated.
Back to Top
lgxb View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 09/10/2016
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 195
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lgxb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2020 at 10:42am
Yeh, I can feel your pain but I don't think that will do us any good in the long run.

Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:


Because so much time, money, and conflict is around 32 adults, 32 juniors, 32 cadets, and 32 mini-cadets who are trying for olympic and national team spots.  With no TT in olympics the USOC would be out of USATT and maybe we could focus attention on say the 7000 players not seeking those spots.

Of course there are potential drawbacks too. 

After attending the open meeting at last years US Open and seeing everything focused on the situation of maybe 16 players seeking Olympic spots and almost nothing about how things were going to affect average members nor addressing the financial issues I just felt USATT could care less about me (especially if I kept sending in membership money).

Mark
Back to Top
YoranMazer View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 11/02/2020
Location: Reston,Va
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YoranMazer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2020 at 3:09am

Hi Bruce,

Nice posting handle. 

I do not know you &  I personally do not know Virginia Sung either.

 Just making a neutral comment.

 Your posting says

 ================== =================

due to CEOs autocracy

He mentioned that selection procedures which had been fully discussed and agreed upon by the HP committee for months suddenly have been voted out because of the CEO's strong recommendation and "that there may be something going on behind the scenes I am not aware of" because publications of committee minutes have been removed and blocked without him being informed after they had already been published.

There have already been rumors before that Bruce Liu lost confindence in the CEO's leadership due to her power-obsessed and dictatorial actions and now it obviosly collapsed.

 ================== =================

 

 I don’t follow this because you state some issue was “voted” upon, how does that constitute Power-obsession, Dictatorial Actions & autocracy ?    I am just curious that is all.  

In any organization, the CEO probably has final say. Even otherwise, he or she can convince certain people to change their mind & if it was “voted” upon how does that become an autocracy ? 

If the CEO had unilaterally vetoed something that the HPC voted upon, then that may be close to autocracy. Even then I am not sure because that depends on what the bye-laws say in a non-profit entity.  In a for profit entity , the CEO probably can do whatever the heck they want. 

In politics for example, my understanding is that the president can veto some items that comes to his desk even if it comes to him after approval from both houses of congress.

I fully understand you are passionate about this issue, which is fine. But I don’t think it is worth quitting over unless you both have bad blood on many other issues . Just my 2 cents.


 

 

Back to Top
pongfugrasshopper View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/22/2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2106
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2020 at 12:36pm
If in fact the last two meeting minutes were put up and then taken down, that is disturbing.  From the e-mails, both Sean and Doru, who both have the most experience in professional table tennis, are in favor of 1 national team spot if you make world top 20 so that makes it even worse.  If you can make top 20 in the world, then I can't see why you shouldn't be on the National Team.  Let's say you're top 20 in the world, but you get sick before national team trials or you have professional contractual commitments that overlap the trials.  We would look foolish internationally if our best player is not on the national team.

Edited by pongfugrasshopper - 11/02/2020 at 2:17pm
Back to Top
cole_ely View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/16/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6490
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2020 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

If in fact the last two meeting minutes were put up and then taken down, that is disturbing.  From the e-mails, both Sean and Doru, who both have the most experience in professional table tennis, are in favor of 1 national team spot if you make world top 20 so that makes it even worse.  If you can make top 20 in the world, then I can't see why you shouldn't be on the National Team.  Let's say you're top 20 in the world, but you get sick before national team trials or you have professional contractual commitments that overlap the trials.  We would look foolish internationally if our best player is not on the national team.


Yeah weird, how long has it been since we had one?  Long time in men's...decades right?  Maybe we might have a female player in the top 20, but she could easily earn her spot anyway
W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
Back to Top
Lightspin View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/11/2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2020 at 5:37pm
Both Gao Jun and Wang Chen were in the top 20 in 2008 when they played for the USA in the Olympics. 

I am kind of torn with using world rankings to guarantee a spot on the team.  I see the logic behind it but on the other hand the current ITTF ranking system is a bit strange for reasons that have been discussed here ad nauseam.  Do we want to send the "best" team (whatever that means) or do we want to have the "fairest" selection process (whatever that means)?  One thing I am fairly certain of is that Bruce Liu is a good guy and wish he wouldn't have quit. 
Back to Top
ping pong enthusiast View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 10/29/2020
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ping pong enthusiast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2020 at 5:39pm
Former USATT Board of Director Larry Hodges wrote an article on his weekly blog regarding Bruce Liu‘s resignation from the USATT High Performance Committee. He also mentioned some behind the scenes activities.

Here is the link to Larry’s blog.
http://tabletenniscoaching.com/node/3220

USATT‘s CEO Virginia Sung obviously plays her part in a negative way here.


Edited by ping pong enthusiast - 11/02/2020 at 5:41pm
Back to Top
pongfugrasshopper View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/22/2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2106
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2020 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by ping pong enthusiast ping pong enthusiast wrote:

Former USATT Board of Director Larry Hodges wrote an article on his weekly blog regarding Bruce Liu‘s resignation from the USATT High Performance Committee. He also mentioned some behind the scenes activities.

Here is the link to Larry’s blog.
http://tabletenniscoaching.com/node/3220

USATT‘s CEO Virginia Sung obviously plays her part in a negative way here.
Thanks for the link.  So it looks like the biggest objection was the inclusion of the e-mails.

TBH, I like having the context and transparency provided by the e-mails.  All of the e-mails were thoughtful and cordial so I fail to see what was objectionable.  Perhaps there were things going on behind the scenes, but the minutes and e-mails themselves seemed perfectly fine to me.

Anyhow, sad to see that nope, we can't all get along.
Back to Top
LoopLobber View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 02/23/2020
Location: Emporia,VA,USA
Status: Offline
Points: 26
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LoopLobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2020 at 1:21pm
I apologize for not reading the whole thread (too much) but was only curious as to who are the players that will be impacted by above actions ? Also wan to leave politics out

Is it just Kanak Jha only ?  Or are there many other players , men & women ? 

I ask because many USA players (men and women)  now play overseas , especially in Germany
Back to Top
FS1 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 12/02/2019
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FS1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2020 at 3:00pm
I don't understand how in the world this issue has suddenly become a PR nightmare with a CEO forcing minutes to be pulled. Do they not communicate with one another? Having a person forced to resign, again where is the communication? 

I agree with another poster, none of what is in the minutes seems at all controversial. The CEO pulling it from online seems like there is an issue with transparency which is never a good look. Makes the CEO look poor. 

This article makes it look like the past board was also lacking in the same thought process as the CEO


How in the world is the sport supposed to move foward if the non athlete administrators are all acting so poorly? 

USATT should not mirror the USA political environment. 

Back to Top
bes View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 04/26/2014
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2020 at 6:17pm
Well said!  I agree 100%!

I just wish that ACTUAL transparency was more common.  It is fairly comical that a "very small potato" organization like USATT has transparency issues.  I don't know Virginia, but, from the outside looking in, I don't think much of the way she is running things.  For the record, I haven't been overwhelmed with many administrations.  Sherrie seemed to like to keep the membership in the dark too.  Gordon started out well, but seemed to lose his Mojo after a year or so...

bes
Back to Top
DonnOlsen View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/15/2008
Location: Maryland, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1055
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2020 at 7:54am
Hi,

One element of the current reality is the very dominant state of control the ITTF exercises in the sport.  With their primary tool of their sanctioned events, it directs and promulgates the representation of the sport to the world.  Conspicuously included here are the world rankings which, like is so common with publicly-expressed statistics, has, by sheer force of repetition, attained the lofty status of an unchallengeable truth absolutism.

For all competitors, if one aspires to a place of distinction in the sport, the ITTF ranking system is the sole and exclusive means available for such attainment.  An impenetrable collective is thus the consequence. 

The sport's National Governing Bodies have no option other than to fully engage, to the extent of their resources, in the ITTF system.  To not do so is to realize obscurity.  This unsurpassing demand elevates world ranking to the highest metric of objective attainment for the organization.  The line of reasoning herein constitutes the strongest argument for athletes of exceptional attainment in the world rankings to be selected, due to this distinction, for a place of membership on the organization's national teams. 

A possible vehicle of national team selection under complete control of the country's national governing body is the women's and men's national championships.  To be a national champion is to achieve the highest level of national success in the sport.  In using this accomplishment as an absolute criterion for national team membership is to honor the country's most prestigious competition, a competition that crowns the country's #1 and further embellishes this success with the reward of this team membership.

Thanks.

Optimal table tennis body fat percentages:
Men    8 - 15%
Women 16 - 22%
Back to Top
BH-Man View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/05/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4870
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2020 at 8:21am
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Originally posted by lgxb lgxb wrote:

Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

I am beginning to wonder whether or not removing TT from the Olympics would be the best thing to actually help US table tennis.

Mark

Why is that?

Because so much time, money, and conflict is around 32 adults, 32 juniors, 32 cadets, and 32 mini-cadets who are trying for olympic and national team spots.  With no TT in olympics the USOC would be out of USATT and maybe we could focus attention on say the 7000 players not seeking those spots.

Of course there are potential drawbacks too. 

After attending the open meeting at last years US Open and seeing everything focused on the situation of maybe 16 players seeking Olympic spots and almost nothing about how things were going to affect average members nor addressing the financial issues I just felt USATT could care less about me (especially if I kept sending in membership money).

Mark

Mark seeing clearly and making sense.
Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc
Back to Top
Lightspin View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/11/2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2020 at 12:38pm
I like Donn Olson's idea of the national champion making the team.  Then you could hold a separate set of trials to determine the other members.

The world ranking system now is a joke.  With the ITTF's desire to promote regional champions, rankings of certain players can get inflated.  If players go abroad to supposedly get better, they should have no trouble beating the domestic competition.  If we implemented Donn's idea, a player would have two chances to make the team. 
Back to Top
aj_88 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 07/04/2015
Location: california
Status: Offline
Points: 51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aj_88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2020 at 3:45pm
You say Word Ranking system now is a joke. Can you please explain that based on rationality, objective assessment and quantitative analysis.  Just saying something does not make it true. Don't diminish your credibility by saying stuff and not being able to back it up.  So, here is your chance to enlighten us.

You said - With the ITTF's desire to promote regional champions, rankings of certain players can get inflated.  Now, please explain how you can say that when the ranking guidelines for the new system are not even published?.  Saying something, once again does not make it true. 

Saying things for dramatic effect may sound fancy but diminishes your credibility and after a while rational people begin to tune it out.

With Much Respect
JA
Back to Top
CoachMcAfee View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 04/28/2013
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 39
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CoachMcAfee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2020 at 3:57pm
Coach McAfee
Back to Top
aj_88 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 07/04/2015
Location: california
Status: Offline
Points: 51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aj_88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2020 at 4:02pm
We already know 2020 guidelines.  We are talking 2021 WTT new system ranking guidelines.
JA
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 13316
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2020 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by aj_88 aj_88 wrote:

You say Word Ranking system now is a joke. Can you please explain that based on rationality, objective assessment and quantitative analysis.  Just saying something does not make it true. Don't diminish your credibility by saying stuff and not being able to back it up.  So, here is your chance to enlighten us.

You said - With the ITTF's desire to promote regional champions, rankings of certain players can get inflated.  Now, please explain how you can say that when the ranking guidelines for the new system are not even published?.  Saying something, once again does not make it true. 

Saying things for dramatic effect may sound fancy but diminishes your credibility and after a while rational people begin to tune it out.

With Much Respect

The "joke" claim is unfortunate.  That said, I do agree that the current system is not as pure a measure of playing strength as the old system was.  The current rating system gives points to national team/international team players as well as players who enter ITTF events just for participation.  That makes it hard for players who are not on the team to compete with players who play in these events for status.  So if a player qualifies for the World Cup or plays some ITTF events, there could in theory be better players who play better but who cannot match his WR because they can't play in the World Cup.

That said, for top 25 or top 50 WR, I think the claim that it is possible to achieve this ranking and not be likely the best player in your continent outside of Europe and Asia is wildly overstated, especially on the men's side.  

On the women's side, Jennifer Wu was an example - she got into the international events and did well, but was unable to qualify for a spot in the national trials.  So the adjustment might have been made with her example in mind.

There might be other things going on in the background that we are not privy to.  And hearing the arguments that Virginia made is very different from seeing how she made them.  Players in Europe may or may not enjoy having to come back to qualify for the team and seeing the letter may result in a visceral reaction.

MY 2 cents.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
aj_88 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 07/04/2015
Location: california
Status: Offline
Points: 51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aj_88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2020 at 4:54pm
Some good points here but a top 30 ranked player does not become top 30 overnight.  Years of competing and winning and keeping the hard work and striving to excel is what makes a player top 30. There are always better players but by that logic no one should be going to world cup because we don't know who can play better.  World Cup qualifications happen as a result of Continental qualifications and to go to Continental qualifications you have to be the best.  Once there, you have to compete and be in the top 3 to be invited to World Cup.  There is a structure and there is a method.

There is just a single male player in USA who is top 30 and there is a single female player who is top 30 also.  They both have exemplary and proven track record of beating some of the best players in the world.  Example Lily beat Hirano Miu and Kanak beat Zhu Qihao of China who had earlier beaten Ma Long and Xu Xin in Marvelous 12 in China.  If you think that was a fluke then consider many other world class players that these 2 athletes have beaten.

And then for someone here to call this a joke is shameful and rather insulting.  That someone maybe has an ax to grind and was not able to accomplish anything remotely close to what these players have accomplished.  To not recognize their track record and constantly belittle world rankings as a metric of accomplishment is a silly notion not rooted in sound logic. 
JA
Back to Top
pongfugrasshopper View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/22/2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2106
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2020 at 5:31pm
What I don't get is that Virginia *surely* must have known that taking down the minutes after they were published would have created controversy.  If she planned on taking down the minutes, why didn't she talk to Bruce first about it?  After all, he was the HPC Chair.  You'd think he should be the first to know.
Back to Top
amateur View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/29/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 4044
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2020 at 5:36pm
It's just unfortunate to see all this infighting yet again, with petty controversies and inflated egos. It feels like that's just the story of USATT. And of course the eternal dispute over selection criteria - there's no perfect solution, just find a compromise, people! I don't think any leading table tennis country in the world wastes its energy and resources on such an issue.
Back to Top
Lightspin View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/11/2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2020 at 6:16pm
I did an analysis explaining how the regional champions get a huge boost in their world rankings in the past.  I thought people would be sick of hearing about it as I have spoken about it so much.  Basically once you win your regional championships, you get a ton of points.  This isn't easy to do.  Sometimes there are 2 regional championships.  You also get quite a few points for placing highly.  However if you win or place really highly, then you get an invite to the world cup where, even if you come in last, you get a ton of points for.  Then if you are regional champion, odds are you will be playing at the world championships, which even if you don't do so well, you get a ton of points.  I think you could be in the top 70 with just those 3 or 4 events and you still have 4 events to go.  In those next 4 events if you can score 1000 or 2000 points total, you are already in the top 30-50 or so.  This doesn't just effect North American players or South American players.  It effects pretty much every region and every gender. 

I think the older ancient system that kind of mirrored "chess style" ranking system was more accurate.  Also, this isn't the fault of the players.  They just play.  I believe the ITTF system was put in place to encourage players to be more active and promote regional champions so they in turn could promote the sport in their home country. 

If there is some sort of new ranking system that will be implemented in 2021, I need to read up about it. 
Back to Top
Lightspin View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/11/2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2020 at 6:19pm
Also, to be very clear: I think the ranking system is not accurate.  Anyone who has broken even the top 1000, much less top 50, has to be a monster of a player.  I do not like the ranking system.  It is not the fault of the players that they have to deal with the ranking system.  
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Online
Points: 13992
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2020 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by aj_88 aj_88 wrote:

Some good points here but a top 30 ranked player does not become top 30 overnight.  Years of competing and winning and keeping the hard work and striving to excel is what makes a player top 30. There are always better players but by that logic no one should be going to world cup because we don't know who can play better.  World Cup qualifications happen as a result of Continental qualifications and to go to Continental qualifications you have to be the best.  Once there, you have to compete and be in the top 3 to be invited to World Cup.  There is a structure and there is a method.

There is just a single male player in USA who is top 30 and there is a single female player who is top 30 also.  They both have exemplary and proven track record of beating some of the best players in the world.  Example Lily beat Hirano Miu and Kanak beat Zhu Qihao of China who had earlier beaten Ma Long and Xu Xin in Marvelous 12 in China.  If you think that was a fluke then consider many other world class players that these 2 athletes have beaten.

And then for someone here to call this a joke is shameful and rather insulting.  That someone maybe has an ax to grind and was not able to accomplish anything remotely close to what these players have accomplished.  To not recognize their track record and constantly belittle world rankings as a metric of accomplishment is a silly notion not rooted in sound logic. 

It has been way more than a generation since homegrown US players have done as much as these two.  I'm looking forward to seeing how far they progress.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2020 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.