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Best Looping Blade

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Rollko View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11/22/2023 at 9:32am
Hi all,

I'm looking to get back to the basics and revisit my FH/BH topspin technique. I've used a number of blades incl. Timo Boll Spirit, Viscaria, Innerforce ALC or Primorac Carbon, and they proved useful at blocking and punching but not so much at spinnig the ball.

I've settled on the Tibhar K3 rubber (both sides) that I'm finding spinnier and more controllable compared to most other rubbers (incl. D09C and D05) due to the soft topsheet that really seems to grab the ball well.

Understanding this is a rather hard low-throw rubber, I think I'll need a flexible blade to pair it with.

I'm currently testing Donic Waldner Carbon Senso and the feeling and touch is good, but the small head and relative stiffness don't seem to make my open ups very effective. I'm also open to non-carbon blades (as long as they're sufficiently flexible) as carbon (especially ALC) can lack feeling at times for me.

Any ideas?
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merlin el mago View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merlin el mago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2023 at 9:48am
Best blade for spin are all wood with flex, 7 layers more speed than 5 layers. Fibers increase speed and sweep spot but reduces flex that's good for spin, take your poison because always no free lunch. 

Edited by merlin el mago - 11/22/2023 at 9:49am
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TT newbie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2023 at 11:06am
Have you ever tried Timo ZLF? This blade gives the best feedback among all blades I´ve tested so far.
If there´s a blade specially made for looping, Timo ZLF is this blade. I just didn´t stick to it because of its low speed. 
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NBSR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NBSR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2023 at 4:15pm
Nittaku Acoustic (wood). Best looping blade I ever used. Flexible and good enough catapult to end rallies. All wood blades are your better bet for looping. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2023 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by NBSR NBSR wrote:

Nittaku Acoustic (wood). Best looping blade I ever used. Flexible and good enough catapult to end rallies. All wood blades are your better bet for looping. 
Agree, both Acoustic and Violin are excellent for looping.
I once used Violin with Tenergy Hard and it was a monster looping blade.
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Rollko View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rollko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2023 at 8:33am
Something under 100GBP?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2023 at 9:28am
From Doraemon;
" I read all the comments after my last post.

Let me clarify a bit, I wrote those comments answering the question "what do you mean by stability with the new ball", therefore I described Korbel as being a bit flexy for easier blocking.

Now, I don't mean to say Korbel is a bad blade, I have previously used it for years.  It is a looping machine, but like I mentioned previously, in the 40+ plastic ball era, it is harder to block with Korbel, compared to a 7-ply allwood blade (like Clipper, for example).

Now, does it mean 7-ply allwood blade is better than Korbel?   Depends on your style of play.   It is easer for me to block using Clipper, but my loops are better with Korbel (given the same stroke).  Clipper is a good looping blade as well, but it is easier to loop with Korbel.   On the other hand, it is easier to block with Clipper.

So there are always two sides (positive and negative) of using a certain blade.  It all depends on your style of play.   I used to be an all out 2-wings looper, so I liked Korbel in the past.   Currently, I am more allround (as I am old now):  looping if necessary, but also push, block and smash.  So a stiffer blade is better for me now. "
Blade:
Darker Speed90
Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg

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bard romance View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2023 at 11:05am
Originally posted by Rollko Rollko wrote:

I'm looking to get back to the basics and revisit my FH/BH topspin technique. I've used a number of blades incl. Timo Boll Spirit, Viscaria, Innerforce ALC or Primorac Carbon, and they proved useful at blocking and punching but not so much at spinnig the ball.


lol
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NextLevel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2023 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by Rollko Rollko wrote:

I'm looking to get back to the basics and revisit my FH/BH topspin technique. I've used a number of blades incl. Timo Boll Spirit, Viscaria, Innerforce ALC or Primorac Carbon, and they proved useful at blocking and punching but not so much at spinnig the ball.


lol

This is probably the best response on the thread so far, to be honest, as much as I sympathize with the desire to return to basics.   Looping has far less to do with the blade than the rubber and the main reason why those composites currently exist is to create blades that are fast *and* *thin* enough to loop with if one prefers to use slimmer blades for looping, but want the stiffness and speed of faster blades.  Pure spin based rationales are pretty much dead in the modern game, spin is mostly a consistency enabler.  Moreover, broadly speaking, spin is a function of the *rubber*, touch/feeling/speed is a function of the blade (there is interaction, but I can defend what I wrote fairly easily).  If you have already chosen K3 as the rubber, the choice of blade only matters to the degree you can feel the ball and feel that your changes in technique can influence changes in the ball (under the pressure of match conditions ultimately of course).
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2023 at 11:33pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by Rollko Rollko wrote:

I'm looking to get back to the basics and revisit my FH/BH topspin technique. I've used a number of blades incl. Timo Boll Spirit, Viscaria, Innerforce ALC or Primorac Carbon, and they proved useful at blocking and punching but not so much at spinnig the ball.


lol

This is probably the best response on the thread so far, to be honest, as much as I sympathize with the desire to return to basics.   Looping has far less to do with the blade than the rubber and the main reason why those composites currently exist is to create blades that are fast *and* *thin* enough to loop with if one prefers to use slimmer blades for looping, but want the stiffness and speed of faster blades.  Pure spin based rationales are pretty much dead in the modern game, spin is mostly a consistency enabler.  Moreover, broadly speaking, spin is a function of the *rubber*, touch/feeling/speed is a function of the blade (there is interaction, but I can defend what I wrote fairly easily).  If you have already chosen K3 as the rubber, the choice of blade only matters to the degree you can feel the ball and feel that your changes in technique can influence changes in the ball (under the pressure of match conditions ultimately of course).


Completely agreed. I'll also add that if you can't spin with an IFALC with the modern ball it's likely you can't spin with anything. But I think we all know at this point that Rollko will get some 5 ply wood blade and be back here in a month talking about how he liked the spin capabilities but can't continue with it because it lacked the speed to threaten opponents and didn't feel solid enough in blocking and punching.



Edited by bard romance - 11/23/2023 at 11:34pm
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stiltt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2023 at 12:22am
"Pure spin based rationales are pretty much dead in the modern game, spin is mostly a consistency enabler. "

I like to read that. Even before the plastic ball, I wanted speed over spin, just enough spin to land on the table and no more. Was I a man ahead of his time?
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Slowhand View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slowhand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2023 at 1:43am
"Pure spin based rationales are pretty much dead in the modern game, spin is mostly a consistency enabler. "

A consistency enabler, but also a key to variation, a way to find otherwise inaccessible angles, to pull the ball wider with hooks and fades, to chop or chop block... I think you can make a strong case that spin easily trumps speed up to an elite amateur level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mazda6GT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2023 at 1:54am
2 best looping blade I tried are Stiga Intensity NCT for all wood and Carbonado 45 for Carbon. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkmoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2023 at 12:11pm
you had Innerforce ALC which is a very flexible blade that is not too fast. I would stop looking for new blade advice and turn to coaching tips instead because it's about your technique.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t64t64t64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2023 at 8:16am
BOLL ZLF is very good blade, give it a shot.
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61764&PID=734709򳗵
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Debashish.Mitra View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Debashish.Mitra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2024 at 12:55pm
If one is finding it difficult to spin the ball with Innerforce ALC - which is the holy grail (along with Viscaria and W968) of looping blades, then it's without any doubt about improper technique.


Edited by Debashish.Mitra - 05/22/2024 at 12:59pm
Main blades : Donic Xtreme, DHS 506x, Viscaria Super ALC, Tumi Boll ALC, Barwell Fleet, Lin Gaoyuan ALC

FH: Friendship Power Bloom 47.5, DHS H3 Neo Provincial Blue Sponge

BH: Tibhar MXP 59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Debashish.Mitra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2024 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by darkmoor darkmoor wrote:

you had Innerforce ALC which is a very flexible blade that is not too fast. I would stop looking for new blade advice and turn to coaching tips instead because it's about your technique.. 

THIS is the correct reply. The blade (and not the rubber) is the most important thing - it should feel like a natural extension of the hand. In TT, spin is of paramount importance - much more than speed. Anyone who says spin is no longer relevant in the modern game does not seem to know what he is talking about. Let's be clear about a critical distinction - in the modern game - at the PROFESSIONAL level, no one plays a purely spin based game without speed and power. BUT - it is VERY BAD ADVICE to the novice or developing player to say that spin is irrelevant in the modern game other than being a mere consistency enabler - going by that advice the trainee will not get anywhere in table tennis. Maybe he should look into pickle ball rather than table tennis in that case. Spin, feeling and control are EVERYTHING for the developing player and he needs to focus on THOSE to develop his technique and NOT on speed!

Why is spin so important in Table Tennis? Because, spin creates control - causing the ball to dip on the table rather than shooting off or hitting the net. Additionally Spin creates power and brings variation to create otherwise non existent angles and trajectories (as rightly commented by another member). Spin is what makes Table Tennis Table Tennis as opposed to pickle ball. Spin is what makes Table Tennis beautiful. Spin is why China has been world dominating for so long. Spin is why China is the most consistent. Spin is why Butterfly and all manufacturers are now moving to hybrid and sticky rubbers like Dignics 09C. And Dignics 09C and similar hybrid rubbers is why the rest of the world has finally closed the gap with China. Going hand in hand with spin is control and feeling - which is 80 % determined by the blade.

Speed without spin is a recipie for inconsistency. One should look to learn proper technique, feel the ball, create spin and aim for consistency. Power (that is Speed + Spin) will develop automatically with proper training and technique.

Rubber is very important too - but less important than the blade. The most important thing while learning Table Tennis is to feel the ball and the blade is responsible for this.

The best looping blades are the ones with Limba/Koto, Ayous and ALC.
Spruce is good for spin but lacks the consistency and stability of Limba and the direct crisp feeling of koto.

I've over a 100 blades and have tried all the major ones. These are my favorite looping blades:

All wood:
Butterfly Primorac Japan
Tibhar Stratus Powerwood
Korbel Japan (as opposed to the European version )
Clipper

Composite:
Butterfly Innerforce ALC (the old one - not the Innerforce Layer ALC)
Butterfly Viscaria
DHS W968
DHS 301T
Donic Xtreme

I totally agree with the comment that if you are finding it difficult to Spin the ball with Innerforce ALC then it's your technique and it's better to invest in coaching with a good coach to work on the technique.


Edited by Debashish.Mitra - 05/22/2024 at 8:25pm
Main blades : Donic Xtreme, DHS 506x, Viscaria Super ALC, Tumi Boll ALC, Barwell Fleet, Lin Gaoyuan ALC

FH: Friendship Power Bloom 47.5, DHS H3 Neo Provincial Blue Sponge

BH: Tibhar MXP 59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2024 at 1:24pm
One of the best composite blades to loop is the Xiom Vega pro, it's thin, has ZLC, it's light and a bit head heavy with 100 grams worth of rubbers, a real looping machine. They are discontinued I think but vendors like achoomai can help getting one, I highly recommend it. btw it does not vibrate a bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Debashish.Mitra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2024 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

One of the best composite blades to loop is the Xiom Vega pro, it's thin, has ZLC, it's light and a bit head heavy with 100 grams worth of rubbers, a real looping machine. They are discontinued I think but vendors like achoomai can help getting one, I highly recommend it. btw it does not vibrate a bit.
Played with it and I agree. Also the Xiom Vega Tour which was one of my earlier favorite blades.


Edited by Debashish.Mitra - 05/22/2024 at 1:37pm
Main blades : Donic Xtreme, DHS 506x, Viscaria Super ALC, Tumi Boll ALC, Barwell Fleet, Lin Gaoyuan ALC

FH: Friendship Power Bloom 47.5, DHS H3 Neo Provincial Blue Sponge

BH: Tibhar MXP 59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kiebe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2024 at 5:34pm
I like Primorac also but carbon
I would like to know how it compared to all wood version
I thought they discontinued it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king_pong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/01/2024 at 9:27pm
Avalox Blue Thunder 550 is the BEST looping blade.  It is very similar to the Donic Waldner Senso (yellow handle), which is in turn similar to the Waldner Senso Carbon (black handle).  I agree with the others though - if you haven't been able to loop with what you have, it might not be your equipment (Donic Waldner Senso Carbon is known to not have any difficulty in creating a looped ball). 
Stiga Infinity VPS (Master): fh/bh - Nittaku Hammond CR max
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