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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2019 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

...
Pongfu, First I would like to state that I have nothing against HH, style , technical , or temperament wise so if someone says she is a good player or is top whatever I don't have anything to say.   I don't know what the JNT is using as their criteria, if it is on WR alone, it might make sense, since doing it like CNT or USATT invites controversy.  
Oh I can assure you, there's plenty of controversy with Japan's decision to use WR alone for Olympic Singles determination.
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

If it is on the WR alone, I took a brief look, for the 8 month period screen, not analysing the level of the tournaments she participated in, she had 14 events which is equal to or less than the JNT players above her but at the same time is a lot more than the two players below her.  Why is she there - 8th amongst the JNT? She had the opportunity to move up with her participation.  No I am not going to spend my night proving she is not top 3 (something she might well be),  if inclined to - you could give me positive proof that she is top 3 and while Zeio's findings are interesting it does not prove she is top three.
Let's simplify this a bit.  I think it's fair to say Mima Ito has had the most success vs. Tier 1 CNT the past year or so.  Kasumi has a history of trouble vs. Tier 1 and some Tier 2 CNT players.  Though I will give her the benefit of the doubt due to her recent win vs. CM and her deuce in the 7th loss to SYS whose been playing lights out.  Even though I think HH is ahead of Kasumi, let's assume the race is for 3rd place.  If you do not look at world ranking, I think it's fair to say the contenders are Miu Hirano, Miyu Kato, and Hina Hayata.  

Let's take a look at their matches vs. Chinese opposition.  I've divided the wins/losses into vs. Tier 1 (CM, LSW, SYS, DN, WMY, Edit: squeezing in ZYL) and Tier 2 (everyone else from China ... I know that's a broad stroke, but need to simplify).  Also, I'm taking a look at matches from 2018 on.

Miu Hirano had an awesome 2017 Asian Championships beating ZYL, DN, and CM.  That moment when she came back vs. DN was one of the best comebacks I can remember.  Unfortunately, since then, she has not been able to replicate any success vs. Tier 1 opponents.  From 2018 on, Tier 2 wins over Chen Ke, Feng Yalan, Qian Tianyi.  Tier 2 losses to Rui Zhang, Gu Yuting, Liu Gaoyang, He Zhuojia, 

Miyu Kato.  From 2018 on a win over CM at a non-ITTF format/tournament ... T2.   Tier 2 win over Wu Yangchen.  Tier 2 losses to Chen Ke, Huang Yingqi, CXT (twice), Liu Gaoyang (twice), HZJ, Qian Tianyi, Li Jiayuan.

Hina Hayata. Wins the Portugal Open including a Tier 1 win over LSW.  Tier 2 losses: Wen Jia, Zhang Rui, Mu Zi, Liu Xi., Gu Yuting, Li Jiayi.  Tier 2 wins: Gu Yuting, Shi Xunyao, Chen Ke, Hu Limei, Feng Yalan, Zhang Qiang

Also, keep in mind that HH was battling injuries in 2018 where most of her Tier 2 CNT losses occurred (2019 losses were to Gu Yuting and Li Jiayi).  This 2019 ITTF Bulgaria Open marks the *2nd* time this year she successfully fought off two CNT members to make it to the Main Draw (the 1st was the Korea Open).  

Some of the most compelling evidence for Hayata's level comes.not from the ITTF tour but from her play in Japan.  She did wonderful things in the T League and also at the WTTC qualifying tournament before fumbling at the goal line vs Kato Miyu. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voids.Q Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2019 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

...
Pongfu, First I would like to state that I have nothing against HH, style , technical , or temperament wise so if someone says she is a good player or is top whatever I don't have anything to say.   I don't know what the JNT is using as their criteria, if it is on WR alone, it might make sense, since doing it like CNT or USATT invites controversy.  
Oh I can assure you, there's plenty of controversy with Japan's decision to use WR alone for Olympic Singles determination.
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

If it is on the WR alone, I took a brief look, for the 8 month period screen, not analysing the level of the tournaments she participated in, she had 14 events which is equal to or less than the JNT players above her but at the same time is a lot more than the two players below her.  Why is she there - 8th amongst the JNT? She had the opportunity to move up with her participation.  No I am not going to spend my night proving she is not top 3 (something she might well be),  if inclined to - you could give me positive proof that she is top 3 and while Zeio's findings are interesting it does not prove she is top three.
Let's simplify this a bit.  I think it's fair to say Mima Ito has had the most success vs. Tier 1 CNT the past year or so.  Kasumi has a history of trouble vs. Tier 1 and some Tier 2 CNT players.  Though I will give her the benefit of the doubt due to her recent win vs. CM and her deuce in the 7th loss to SYS whose been playing lights out.  Even though I think HH is ahead of Kasumi, let's assume the race is for 3rd place.  If you do not look at world ranking, I think it's fair to say the contenders are Miu Hirano, Miyu Kato, and Hina Hayata.  

Let's take a look at their matches vs. Chinese opposition.  I've divided the wins/losses into vs. Tier 1 (CM, LSW, SYS, DN, WMY, Edit: squeezing in ZYL) and Tier 2 (everyone else from China ... I know that's a broad stroke, but need to simplify).  Also, I'm taking a look at matches from 2018 on.

Miu Hirano had an awesome 2017 Asian Championships beating ZYL, DN, and CM.  That moment when she came back vs. DN was one of the best comebacks I can remember.  Unfortunately, since then, she has not been able to replicate any success vs. Tier 1 opponents.  From 2018 on, Tier 2 wins over Chen Ke, Feng Yalan, Qian Tianyi.  Tier 2 losses to Rui Zhang, Gu Yuting, Liu Gaoyang, He Zhuojia, 

Miyu Kato.  From 2018 on a win over CM at a non-ITTF format/tournament ... T2.   Tier 2 win over Wu Yangchen.  Tier 2 losses to Chen Ke, Huang Yingqi, CXT (twice), Liu Gaoyang (twice), HZJ, Qian Tianyi, Li Jiayuan.

Hina Hayata. Wins the Portugal Open including a Tier 1 win over LSW.  Tier 2 losses: Wen Jia, Zhang Rui, Mu Zi, Liu Xi., Gu Yuting, Li Jiayi.  Tier 2 wins: Gu Yuting, Shi Xunyao, Chen Ke, Hu Limei, Feng Yalan, Zhang Qiang

Also, keep in mind that HH was battling injuries in 2018 where most of her Tier 2 CNT losses occurred (2019 losses were to Gu Yuting and Li Jiayi).  This 2019 ITTF Bulgaria Open marks the *2nd* time this year she successfully fought off two CNT members to make it to the Main Draw (the 1st was the Korea Open).  

Some of the most compelling evidence for Hayata's level comes.not from the ITTF tour but from her play in Japan.  She did wonderful things in the T League and also at the WTTC qualifying tournament before fumbling at the goal line vs Kato Miyu. 



Exactly. And a lot of people have also been judging her level based on her worst performances (First against Kato, and then at the most recent Australian Open against Li Jiayuan where she was noticeably injured). That would be like judging Xu Xin's level by his loss to Gauzy in WTTC, or Ma Long's level by his losses to Pitchford, Chuang, or Niwa...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 2:03am
Originally posted by Voids.Q Voids.Q wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

...
Pongfu, First I would like to state that I have nothing against HH, style , technical , or temperament wise so if someone says she is a good player or is top whatever I don't have anything to say.   I don't know what the JNT is using as their criteria, if it is on WR alone, it might make sense, since doing it like CNT or USATT invites controversy.  
Oh I can assure you, there's plenty of controversy with Japan's decision to use WR alone for Olympic Singles determination.
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

If it is on the WR alone, I took a brief look, for the 8 month period screen, not analysing the level of the tournaments she participated in, she had 14 events which is equal to or less than the JNT players above her but at the same time is a lot more than the two players below her.  Why is she there - 8th amongst the JNT? She had the opportunity to move up with her participation.  No I am not going to spend my night proving she is not top 3 (something she might well be),  if inclined to - you could give me positive proof that she is top 3 and while Zeio's findings are interesting it does not prove she is top three.
Let's simplify this a bit.  I think it's fair to say Mima Ito has had the most success vs. Tier 1 CNT the past year or so.  Kasumi has a history of trouble vs. Tier 1 and some Tier 2 CNT players.  Though I will give her the benefit of the doubt due to her recent win vs. CM and her deuce in the 7th loss to SYS whose been playing lights out.  Even though I think HH is ahead of Kasumi, let's assume the race is for 3rd place.  If you do not look at world ranking, I think it's fair to say the contenders are Miu Hirano, Miyu Kato, and Hina Hayata.  

Let's take a look at their matches vs. Chinese opposition.  I've divided the wins/losses into vs. Tier 1 (CM, LSW, SYS, DN, WMY, Edit: squeezing in ZYL) and Tier 2 (everyone else from China ... I know that's a broad stroke, but need to simplify).  Also, I'm taking a look at matches from 2018 on.

Miu Hirano had an awesome 2017 Asian Championships beating ZYL, DN, and CM.  That moment when she came back vs. DN was one of the best comebacks I can remember.  Unfortunately, since then, she has not been able to replicate any success vs. Tier 1 opponents.  From 2018 on, Tier 2 wins over Chen Ke, Feng Yalan, Qian Tianyi.  Tier 2 losses to Rui Zhang, Gu Yuting, Liu Gaoyang, He Zhuojia, 

Miyu Kato.  From 2018 on a win over CM at a non-ITTF format/tournament ... T2.   Tier 2 win over Wu Yangchen.  Tier 2 losses to Chen Ke, Huang Yingqi, CXT (twice), Liu Gaoyang (twice), HZJ, Qian Tianyi, Li Jiayuan.

Hina Hayata. Wins the Portugal Open including a Tier 1 win over LSW.  Tier 2 losses: Wen Jia, Zhang Rui, Mu Zi, Liu Xi., Gu Yuting, Li Jiayi.  Tier 2 wins: Gu Yuting, Shi Xunyao, Chen Ke, Hu Limei, Feng Yalan, Zhang Qiang

Also, keep in mind that HH was battling injuries in 2018 where most of her Tier 2 CNT losses occurred (2019 losses were to Gu Yuting and Li Jiayi).  This 2019 ITTF Bulgaria Open marks the *2nd* time this year she successfully fought off two CNT members to make it to the Main Draw (the 1st was the Korea Open).  

Some of the most compelling evidence for Hayata's level comes.not from the ITTF tour but from her play in Japan.  She did wonderful things in the T League and also at the WTTC qualifying tournament before fumbling at the goal line vs Kato Miyu. 



Exactly. And a lot of people have also been judging her level based on her worst performances (First against Kato, and then at the most recent Australian Open against Li Jiayuan where she was noticeably injured). That would be like judging Xu Xin's level by his loss to Gauzy in WTTC, or Ma Long's level by his losses to Pitchford, Chuang, or Niwa...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 2:43am
Originally posted by Voids.Q Voids.Q wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

...
Pongfu, First I would like to state that I have nothing against HH, style , technical , or temperament wise so if someone says she is a good player or is top whatever I don't have anything to say.   I don't know what the JNT is using as their criteria, if it is on WR alone, it might make sense, since doing it like CNT or USATT invites controversy.  
Oh I can assure you, there's plenty of controversy with Japan's decision to use WR alone for Olympic Singles determination.
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

If it is on the WR alone, I took a brief look, for the 8 month period screen, not analysing the level of the tournaments she participated in, she had 14 events which is equal to or less than the JNT players above her but at the same time is a lot more than the two players below her.  Why is she there - 8th amongst the JNT? She had the opportunity to move up with her participation.  No I am not going to spend my night proving she is not top 3 (something she might well be),  if inclined to - you could give me positive proof that she is top 3 and while Zeio's findings are interesting it does not prove she is top three.
Let's simplify this a bit.  I think it's fair to say Mima Ito has had the most success vs. Tier 1 CNT the past year or so.  Kasumi has a history of trouble vs. Tier 1 and some Tier 2 CNT players.  Though I will give her the benefit of the doubt due to her recent win vs. CM and her deuce in the 7th loss to SYS whose been playing lights out.  Even though I think HH is ahead of Kasumi, let's assume the race is for 3rd place.  If you do not look at world ranking, I think it's fair to say the contenders are Miu Hirano, Miyu Kato, and Hina Hayata.  

Let's take a look at their matches vs. Chinese opposition.  I've divided the wins/losses into vs. Tier 1 (CM, LSW, SYS, DN, WMY, Edit: squeezing in ZYL) and Tier 2 (everyone else from China ... I know that's a broad stroke, but need to simplify).  Also, I'm taking a look at matches from 2018 on.

Miu Hirano had an awesome 2017 Asian Championships beating ZYL, DN, and CM.  That moment when she came back vs. DN was one of the best comebacks I can remember.  Unfortunately, since then, she has not been able to replicate any success vs. Tier 1 opponents.  From 2018 on, Tier 2 wins over Chen Ke, Feng Yalan, Qian Tianyi.  Tier 2 losses to Rui Zhang, Gu Yuting, Liu Gaoyang, He Zhuojia, 

Miyu Kato.  From 2018 on a win over CM at a non-ITTF format/tournament ... T2.   Tier 2 win over Wu Yangchen.  Tier 2 losses to Chen Ke, Huang Yingqi, CXT (twice), Liu Gaoyang (twice), HZJ, Qian Tianyi, Li Jiayuan.

Hina Hayata. Wins the Portugal Open including a Tier 1 win over LSW.  Tier 2 losses: Wen Jia, Zhang Rui, Mu Zi, Liu Xi., Gu Yuting, Li Jiayi.  Tier 2 wins: Gu Yuting, Shi Xunyao, Chen Ke, Hu Limei, Feng Yalan, Zhang Qiang

Also, keep in mind that HH was battling injuries in 2018 where most of her Tier 2 CNT losses occurred (2019 losses were to Gu Yuting and Li Jiayi).  This 2019 ITTF Bulgaria Open marks the *2nd* time this year she successfully fought off two CNT members to make it to the Main Draw (the 1st was the Korea Open).  

Some of the most compelling evidence for Hayata's level comes.not from the ITTF tour but from her play in Japan.  She did wonderful things in the T League and also at the WTTC qualifying tournament before fumbling at the goal line vs Kato Miyu. 



Exactly. And a lot of people have also been judging her level based on her worst performances (First against Kato, and then at the most recent Australian Open against Li Jiayuan where she was noticeably injured). That would be like judging Xu Xin's level by his loss to Gauzy in WTTC, or Ma Long's level by his losses to Pitchford, Chuang, or Niwa...

Everybody has its own opinion and that is normal.
Everybody sees the japanese selection will be determined in relation to ...the results against the Chinese players but objectively this is not the most important.......because there will only be 2 CNT players there and before meeting them, there will be a long road...
Who is the most regular in terms of results, who does have the best ranking for years ? who is the most likely to get a bronze medal ? Ishikawa undoubtedly.
Everything speaks for Ishikawa  and even the fact that recently she managed to play good matches Vs top CNT players.
Then we have Ito who is the only one able to compete for the second or even the first place in Tokyo but...She can also lose from players like Cheng I Ching or Doo Hoi Kem in the second round what won't happen with Ishikawa...Ito : that will be some "all or nothing".

Then we have lots of other players: Hirano, Sato, Honoka, Kato, Hayata, Shibata....if you look at their results in tournaments, then, you have to pick Sato, if you chose regarding the ranking, then you would have to chose Hirano.

Finally, don't forget that Ishikawa is an icone in JP , especially since Fukuhara's retirement.
In the last WTTC, CNT chose LSW instead of ZYL despite the fact she wasn't in a good shape and had bad results and afterwards it was a good decision. They probably chose her because she is an icone and that counts.


Edited by kakapo - 08/16/2019 at 2:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 5:08am
Was pleasantly surprised with Harimoto's win over Zhu Linfeng. Granted it's 2nd tier CNT but he seemed to have really integrated his FH receive game and counterloop with his new shorter FH movement... impressive!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 7:33am
And of course all three I mentioned get knocked out in R16. Three of the quarterfinal matches will feature a CNT player. Mima Ito knocked out Fan Siqi to prevent a fourth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 8:56am
Originally posted by kakapo kakapo wrote:

Originally posted by Voids.Q Voids.Q wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

...
Pongfu, First I would like to state that I have nothing against HH, style , technical , or temperament wise so if someone says she is a good player or is top whatever I don't have anything to say.   I don't know what the JNT is using as their criteria, if it is on WR alone, it might make sense, since doing it like CNT or USATT invites controversy.  
Oh I can assure you, there's plenty of controversy with Japan's decision to use WR alone for Olympic Singles determination.
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

If it is on the WR alone, I took a brief look, for the 8 month period screen, not analysing the level of the tournaments she participated in, she had 14 events which is equal to or less than the JNT players above her but at the same time is a lot more than the two players below her.  Why is she there - 8th amongst the JNT? She had the opportunity to move up with her participation.  No I am not going to spend my night proving she is not top 3 (something she might well be),  if inclined to - you could give me positive proof that she is top 3 and while Zeio's findings are interesting it does not prove she is top three.
Let's simplify this a bit.  I think it's fair to say Mima Ito has had the most success vs. Tier 1 CNT the past year or so.  Kasumi has a history of trouble vs. Tier 1 and some Tier 2 CNT players.  Though I will give her the benefit of the doubt due to her recent win vs. CM and her deuce in the 7th loss to SYS whose been playing lights out.  Even though I think HH is ahead of Kasumi, let's assume the race is for 3rd place.  If you do not look at world ranking, I think it's fair to say the contenders are Miu Hirano, Miyu Kato, and Hina Hayata.  

Let's take a look at their matches vs. Chinese opposition.  I've divided the wins/losses into vs. Tier 1 (CM, LSW, SYS, DN, WMY, Edit: squeezing in ZYL) and Tier 2 (everyone else from China ... I know that's a broad stroke, but need to simplify).  Also, I'm taking a look at matches from 2018 on.

Miu Hirano had an awesome 2017 Asian Championships beating ZYL, DN, and CM.  That moment when she came back vs. DN was one of the best comebacks I can remember.  Unfortunately, since then, she has not been able to replicate any success vs. Tier 1 opponents.  From 2018 on, Tier 2 wins over Chen Ke, Feng Yalan, Qian Tianyi.  Tier 2 losses to Rui Zhang, Gu Yuting, Liu Gaoyang, He Zhuojia, 

Miyu Kato.  From 2018 on a win over CM at a non-ITTF format/tournament ... T2.   Tier 2 win over Wu Yangchen.  Tier 2 losses to Chen Ke, Huang Yingqi, CXT (twice), Liu Gaoyang (twice), HZJ, Qian Tianyi, Li Jiayuan.

Hina Hayata. Wins the Portugal Open including a Tier 1 win over LSW.  Tier 2 losses: Wen Jia, Zhang Rui, Mu Zi, Liu Xi., Gu Yuting, Li Jiayi.  Tier 2 wins: Gu Yuting, Shi Xunyao, Chen Ke, Hu Limei, Feng Yalan, Zhang Qiang

Also, keep in mind that HH was battling injuries in 2018 where most of her Tier 2 CNT losses occurred (2019 losses were to Gu Yuting and Li Jiayi).  This 2019 ITTF Bulgaria Open marks the *2nd* time this year she successfully fought off two CNT members to make it to the Main Draw (the 1st was the Korea Open).  

Some of the most compelling evidence for Hayata's level comes.not from the ITTF tour but from her play in Japan.  She did wonderful things in the T League and also at the WTTC qualifying tournament before fumbling at the goal line vs Kato Miyu. 



Exactly. And a lot of people have also been judging her level based on her worst performances (First against Kato, and then at the most recent Australian Open against Li Jiayuan where she was noticeably injured). That would be like judging Xu Xin's level by his loss to Gauzy in WTTC, or Ma Long's level by his losses to Pitchford, Chuang, or Niwa...

Everybody has its own opinion and that is normal.
Everybody sees the japanese selection will be determined in relation to ...the results against the Chinese players but objectively this is not the most important.......because there will only be 2 CNT players there and before meeting them, there will be a long road...
Who is the most regular in terms of results, who does have the best ranking for years ? who is the most likely to get a bronze medal ? Ishikawa undoubtedly.
Everything speaks for Ishikawa  and even the fact that recently she managed to play good matches Vs top CNT players.
Then we have Ito who is the only one able to compete for the second or even the first place in Tokyo but...She can also lose from players like Cheng I Ching or Doo Hoi Kem in the second round what won't happen with Ishikawa...Ito : that will be some "all or nothing".

Then we have lots of other players: Hirano, Sato, Honoka, Kato, Hayata, Shibata....if you look at their results in tournaments, then, you have to pick Sato, if you chose regarding the ranking, then you would have to chose Hirano.

Finally, don't forget that Ishikawa is an icone in JP , especially since Fukuhara's retirement.
In the last WTTC, CNT chose LSW instead of ZYL despite the fact she wasn't in a good shape and had bad results and afterwards it was a good decision. They probably chose her because she is an icone and that counts.

This still stings you.  As opposed to admitting that ZYL played badly at the trials and Sun Yingsha played much better?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 8:57am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Was pleasantly surprised with Harimoto's win over Zhu Linfeng. Granted it's 2nd tier CNT but he seemed to have really integrated his FH receive game and counterloop with his new shorter FH movement... impressive!

Agreed.  He is staying to spin more now even on those blocks that used to be flat hits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 8:59am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

And of course all three I mentioned get knocked out in R16. Three of the quarterfinal matches will feature a CNT player. Mima Ito knocked out Fan Siqi to prevent a fourth.

All lose to players who were born and played in China at some point in their loves, LOL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 9:50am
Originally posted by kakapo kakapo wrote:

Who is the most regular in terms of results, who does have the best ranking for years ? who is the most likely to get a bronze medal ? Ishikawa undoubtedly. 
...
Then we have Ito who is the only one able to compete for the second or even the first place in Tokyo but...She can also lose from players like Cheng I Ching or Doo Hoi Kem in the second round what won't happen with Ishikawa...Ito : that will be some "all or nothing".

If we accept this as true then the obvious results-maximizing strategy is to send Ishikawa (good chance of bronze but no better) and Ito (all or nothing).  

So only the third spot is up for grabs.  And that player will only compete in doubles, so using WR that doesn't count doubles to decide is dumb.  The question is do they want Ito playing all three events WS, WD, XD?  If Ito will play WD and XD (with MJ) then send HH. If not, and imo it isn't a great idea to have Ito play so  much, then maybe they need to send Hirano. JNT is in the odd position of maybe having too many lefties on the team.

But either way the relative singles prowess of the third woman JNT is irrelevant.  She will only play doubles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 9:58am
Pongfu,  Is the JNT solely basing their selection on WR and if yes what is the controversy?   Regarding HH good arguments were made by many.  You wanted to concentrate on the recent trends which is fine but definitely bears more scrutiny.  I will put it in my calendar for a year plus to revisit this topic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 10:36am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

And of course all three I mentioned get knocked out in R16. Three of the quarterfinal matches will feature a CNT player. Mima Ito knocked out Fan Siqi to prevent a fourth.

Maybe JPN should focus on securing silver (by not losing to KOR, SIN, GER etc.) rather than dream about gold.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 10:45am
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Suh Hyowon vs Wu Yang,
that match will take forever - from 2 defensive players.

Expedite system will be activated, I guess.

Game 1 lasted 9 minutes, the total match 32 minutes.

Next chance for expedite: Wu Yang vs Hitomi Sato. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 10:47am
The ironic thing about HH is that so many people here are wondering why Japan did not pick HH to play the single for WTTC or even the olympics. HH might not be picked because her ranking is low due to losing to CNT players all the time. And Japan should pick HH because she has the best chance to beat CNT players? See the iron here? 

I think Japan has probably the fairest way to pick players for Olympics or even WTTC. And still so many complains about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 10:53am
Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

The ironic thing about HH is that so many people here are wondering why Japan did not pick HH to play the single for WTTC or even the olympics. HH might not be picked because her ranking is low due to losing to CNT players all the time. And Japan should pick HH because she has the best chance to beat CNT players? See the iron here? 

I think Japan has probably the fairest way to pick players for Olympics or even WTTC. And still so many complains about it.
They all lose to CNT players, but sometimes win.  HH has more wins vs. CNT than most of her compatriots.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 10:58am
Kato miyu could not even beat yu mengyu. This is the lady who was picked ahead of hayata in the wttc team a few months ago. Do you think Hayata would lose to yu mengyu ? I don't think so. Yu would have been walloped by Hayata. Just show you the Japan National team got the selection all wrong. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 10:59am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Pongfu,  Is the JNT solely basing their selection on WR and if yes what is the controversy?   Regarding HH good arguments were made by many.  You wanted to concentrate on the recent trends which is fine but definitely bears more scrutiny.  I will put it in my calendar for a year plus to revisit this topic.
Yes, for singles JNT chose WR alone.  Not sure of the appropriateness of linking to another TT forum so I'll just say there's lots of good discussion on TTD as to why this is controversial.  So I'll just say search for "Japan Women's Race to Tokyo 2020 Singles" over there. But I'll mention a few things: depends on luck/unluck of the draw, points at T2 are added in addition to 8 results (a pet peeve of mine), who from the JNT gets chosen to play at ITTF tournaments (which of course affects ranking).  There's lots more so I encourage you to read the discussion there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 11:14am
Where is HH now ?😜 in the shower 😜

Edited by kakapo - 08/16/2019 at 11:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 11:17am
do you think JNT coaches read this forum and do they need our opinions to pick HH? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 11:23am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

do you think JNT coaches read this forum and do they need our opinions to pick HH? 
come on everybody reads this forum (and TTD) and rely on its feedback 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 11:23am
Is ITTF live streaming for Bulgaria Open done for today?

I think it is not done yet.
But I don't see any live streaming.



Edited by skip3119 - 08/16/2019 at 11:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 11:24am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Pongfu,  Is the JNT solely basing their selection on WR and if yes what is the controversy?   Regarding HH good arguments were made by many.  You wanted to concentrate on the recent trends which is fine but definitely bears more scrutiny.  I will put it in my calendar for a year plus to revisit this topic.
Yes, for singles JNT chose WR alone.  Not sure of the appropriateness of linking to another TT forum so I'll just say there's lots of good discussion on TTD as to why this is controversial.  So I'll just say search for "Japan Women's Race to Tokyo 2020 Singles" over there. But I'll mention a few things: depends on luck/unluck of the draw, points at T2 are added in addition to 8 results (a pet peeve of mine), who from the JNT gets chosen to play at ITTF tournaments (which of course affects ranking).  There's lots more so I encourage you to read the discussion there.
ok , I will read the "Japan Women's  ...." when I have a chance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 11:30am
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Is ITTF live streaming for Bulgaria Open done for today?

I think it is not done yet.
But I don't see any live streaming.


Just a break. Dinner time?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 11:31am
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Is ITTF live streaming for Bulgaria Open done for today?
I think it is not done yet.
But I don't see any live streaming.
====================
Looks like the live streaming will resume 12:00 noon (US Eastern).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 11:35am
Japan laid out the selection standard way before the Olympics and everyone got to fight for it in a year or longer. You can not tailor the rule for someone just because she is unlucky. And I think Japan is probably happy if they can get silver or copper medals in the Olympics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 11:53am
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

And of course all three I mentioned get knocked out in R16. Three of the quarterfinal matches will feature a CNT player. Mima Ito knocked out Fan Siqi to prevent a fourth.

Maybe JPN should focus on securing silver (by not losing to KOR, SIN, GER etc.) rather than dream about gold.
That's the point: securing bronze or silver.

What is the best choice ? 
Picking Ishikawa who will lose from both CNT players but will defeat all the other players

or

picking HH or someone else who will lose from both CNT players but also from players like Jeon jihee ?

The choice is obvious, the ranking also, the overall results also.
Of course, ito Mima is the only real chance for gold so they have to give her a spot.

And for all Hayata lovers, sorry but the ranking is the most objective way for a selection.


Edited by kakapo - 08/16/2019 at 11:55am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 11:57am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Pongfu,  Is the JNT solely basing their selection on WR and if yes what is the controversy?   Regarding HH good arguments were made by many.  You wanted to concentrate on the recent trends which is fine but definitely bears more scrutiny.  I will put it in my calendar for a year plus to revisit this topic.
Yes, for singles JNT chose WR alone.  Not sure of the appropriateness of linking to another TT forum so I'll just say there's lots of good discussion on TTD as to why this is controversial.  So I'll just say search for "Japan Women's Race to Tokyo 2020 Singles" over there. But I'll mention a few things: depends on luck/unluck of the draw, points at T2 are added in addition to 8 results (a pet peeve of mine), who from the JNT gets chosen to play at ITTF tournaments (which of course affects ranking).  There's lots more so I encourage you to read the discussion there.
ok , I will read the "Japan Women's  ...." when I have a chance

took a look - it is way too long for today.  from the first few pages the controversy is mostly from forum members who pronounced their view without proposing a less controversial process.  Doesn't the USATT committee have leeway on selection based on some unmeasurable metrics based on their discretion and they don't even have to justify it - this is what controversy is - protest from the participants and not from people on the sideline
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 11:59am
Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Kato miyu could not even beat yu mengyu. This is the lady who was picked ahead of hayata in the wttc team a few months ago. Do you think Hayata would lose to yu mengyu ? I don't think so. Yu would have been walloped by Hayata. Just show you the Japan National team got the selection all wrong. 

Kato wasn't picked ahead of Hayata.....She defeated Hayata...That's called SPORT...: a game in which mental strength is important and obviously, hayata lacks of mental strengths....She might be better than kato technically, she was not able to defeat her when that counts...Just facts !!!!


Edited by kakapo - 08/16/2019 at 11:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by kakapo kakapo wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Kato miyu could not even beat yu mengyu. This is the lady who was picked ahead of hayata in the wttc team a few months ago. Do you think Hayata would lose to yu mengyu ? I don't think so. Yu would have been walloped by Hayata. Just show you the Japan National team got the selection all wrong. 

Kato wasn't picked ahead of Hayata.....She defeated Hayata...That's called SPORT...: a game in which mental strength is important and obviously, hayata lacks of mental strengths....She might be better than kato technically, she was not able to defeat her when that counts...Just facts !!!!

Is there a japanese rank list? Maybe the best solution is to make a monthly japan top 12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2019 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by kakapo kakapo wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Kato miyu could not even beat yu mengyu. This is the lady who was picked ahead of hayata in the wttc team a few months ago. Do you think Hayata would lose to yu mengyu ? I don't think so. Yu would have been walloped by Hayata. Just show you the Japan National team got the selection all wrong. 

Kato wasn't picked ahead of Hayata.....She defeated Hayata...That's called SPORT...: a game in which mental strength is important and obviously, hayata lacks of mental strengths....She might be better than kato technically, she was not able to defeat her when that counts...Just facts !!!!

Is there a japanese rank list? Maybe the best solution is to make a monthly japan top 12
good question
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