A personal invitation from Robert Blackwell - Event Date: 12/27/2009

Hmp....
Does anyone know if they're going to broadcast this event in any sports channel like ESPN? I'd LOVEEE to attend but I can't....bleh// work sucks....

Million thanks if anyone could enlighten me with this little piece of info!

NickW wrote: APW46 wrote:  Well I for one, agree with every word you say, why do Americans have to 'razzmataz' everything and change it. You are like a bunch of kids who need constant exitement, no doubt there will be cheerleaders, fireworks, Queens 'we will rock you' Hotdogs, popcorn...... who needs Table tennis, it could be anything, chess, tiddlywinks, hide and seek........ Why you ask? We are that way because we're not English nor are we part of the United Kingdom. We are that way precisely because we're American, and that's the way we do things.

Anyone who's seen Charles Deng's (US 12 year old, approx US2500) match against a Chinese team member at Baltimore Teams knows exactly what is wrong with this sport.

While it is truly awesome that Charles was able to "keep up" with someone of that ability, especially at age 12, the longest rally I witnessed was 5 strokes, with the vast majority of points ending in 3rd ball (fail or success) attempts. There were also a large number of points won outright with the serve. Even loving the game as much as I do, it was hard to get excited by the play. Unlike our play Ouhragami (sp?) I simply don't find 3rd ball play that interesting or exciting. I wouldn't wish it on an unsuspecting non-TT playing spectator, either.

APW - clearly the sport is broken. And I'm not saying that Mr. Blackwell can singlehandedly fix it. But when matches like the above represent high level play, there isn't much in it for spectators.

So perhaps, if there is enough pomp and circumstance surrounding a point, theatrics can make up for deficencies in the game design.

APW46 wrote: NickW wrote: APW46 wrote:  Well I for one, agree with every word you say, why do Americans have to 'razzmataz' everything and change it. You are like a bunch of kids who need constant exitement, no doubt there will be cheerleaders, fireworks, Queens 'we will rock you' Hotdogs, popcorn...... who needs Table tennis, it could be anything, chess, tiddlywinks, hide and seek........ Why you ask? We are that way because we're not English nor are we part of the United Kingdom. We are that way precisely because we're American, and that's the way we do things.    Of course you do, how silly of me to assume you would have any regard for anything else...... I rest my case.

bluethunder wrote: I attempted to register for the event, the registration form is asking for a lot of personal information for a free event, so I stopped.

actually, i took a look at that myself and that form does ask for a lot of personal info, but if you look closely you will notice that only your first and last name and your e-mail address are required information, so you don't actually need to fill out any of the other fields to register.

(heim looks around)

where are the dancing girls?
i'm outta here

NickW wrote: APW46 wrote:  My insinuation is that USA in general cannot accept the traditions, principles, and beliefs of other societies, so always changes them to fit in with the 'American dream'. No problem, Fine, Great, but TT does not fit in to that unless it is altered into a psudo American style. I don't really care, I don't live there, but if you Americans want to know why TT is down rated in the USA, It is because of this, Its rather a catch 22, I don't personally see a way out of it, Like I say, I'm not critisising the US, rather stating why TT will never Be big there.  Well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black! You need to take a long, hard look at your own shameful history before criticizing others. Brits have a LONG history, even recent history such as Hong Kong and India, and of the ridiculous Falkland Islands, of imposing their own will on others. Americans in general don't care if table tennis is not a highly rated sport, and quite frankly, that's okay, just like Brits not caring about baseball. All I hope for is that table tennis is seen in the same light as any other ATHLETIC endeavor, and that can't happen without ATHLETIC play.

I won't touch the first part of your post... i'll only say, you're playing with a big boy.

The second part of your post? 

takaaki wrote: charles deng approx 2500??  not exactly--try 2250. go to the usatt rating page and look at his rating.

I don't mean to split hairs, but that rating was before the tournament.

During the tournament Charles beat:
Cheng Yi Du US2631
Paul David US2404
and
Nazruddin Asgarali US2377

Among others. Charles should come out above US2400.

And I'd hardly call his play "getting smoked" in that video. By my count the final score was something like 11-8. And for the number of errors the 2700 player made (in serve return alone), Charles simply went for broke and created some great opportunities and mistakes.

But therein lies my point:
Of course there is a skill discrepancy, but do you think the average spectator notices that? I don't. I think they see a lot of short, uninteresting points and two people making a lot of mistakes. I routinely play people 200 points my better, and I assure you that if I want to win (and I do, frequently) the points are just as boring and quick.

APW46 wrote:  My insinuation is that USA in general cannot accept the traditions, principles, and beliefs of other societies, so always changes them to fit in with the 'American dream'. No problem, Fine, Great, but TT does not fit in to that unless it is altered into a psudo American style. I don't really care, I don't live there, but if you Americans want to know why TT is down rated in the USA, It is because of this, Its rather a catch 22, I don't personally see a way out of it, Like I say, I'm not critisising the US, rather stating why TT will never Be big there.

Carbon TT wrote: Wow, I didn't realize my first post would get so much excitement.  The "damage" I was refering too is how RB is trying to "glamorize" TT, as APW46 mentioned.  Table tennis is not the WWE, it is one of, if not the most, physically and mentally demanding sports in the world if you look at it on a scientific level.  Yes, he has brought some attention to the game and that is commendable from the standpoint of effort expended.  But yet, he is trying to turn it into a circus from the entertainement aspect.  As I said earlier, the image of table tennis he is trying to create is not what this sport is, or should be, about.

X10  Very well put carbon!

you have got to be kidding!!

there is absolutely no comparison to the game of the 30's and 40's to the game of today!!

the shotmaking today is the best it has ever been.  the players of today are the best they have ever been.

i've seen a few pictures of barna.  he was wearing trousers!!  that alone tells you right there the level of difficulty in the sport of that day.

if you are expecting to see wizardry in a match here in america, then you truly are a noob.  and that's why RB is smart enough to bring players from overseas to play in his SPINVITATIONAL thingies, cuz nobody in north, central, or south america or the caribbean really knows how to play the game!   and that shows up quite clearly in the world rankings (only 1 native-born "american" in the top-100 and just barely at that!!) and, also, in the fact that in the americas the top players are generally (aging) foreigners.

the reason why they wore trousers way back then is when you're just standing in one place and waving your arms around in the air you never have to worry about breaking out in a sweat (or splitting your pants)!!

and y'know, that kind o' game is very easy for a noob to learn and appreciate.

but the game today is a whole helluva lot more complicated and much, much, much more physical than back in barna's day.

even with the crap they played with back then, if you could create a time machine send wlq, or better yet, joo se hyuk back to the 30's, within no time either one would come to dominate the game.  actually, you could send back anybody in the top-1000...

there is absolutely nothing wrong with the game of today.  it is the best it has ever been!!

besides, what sense does it make to base your opinion of the game on a match between some clueless kid here in america and a former world junior champion and current member of the chinese nat'l team, the absolute best team in the world right now by far??

Oh, one more thing, i believe the game today is way more exciting and challenging compare to the past.  It's amazing how people blame the sport when an association failed to deliver.

takaaki wrote: you have got to be kidding!! there is absolutely no comparison to the game of the 30's and 40's to the game of today!! the shotmaking today is the best it has ever been.  the players of today are the best they have ever been. i've seen a few pictures of barna.  he was wearing trousers!!  that alone tells you right there the level of difficulty in the sport of that day. if you are expecting to see wizardry in a match here in america, then you truly are a noob.  and that's why RB is smart enough to bring players from overseas to play in his SPINVITATIONAL thingies, cuz nobody in north, central, or south america or the caribbean really knows how to play the game!   and that shows up quite clearly in the world rankings (only 1 native-born "american" in the top-100 and just barely at that!!) and, also, in the fact that in the americas the top players are generally (aging) foreigners. the reason why they wore trousers way back then is when you're just standing in one place and waving your arms around in the air you never have to worry about breaking out in a sweat (or splitting your pants)!! and y'know, that kind o' game is very easy for a noob to learn and appreciate. but the game today is a whole helluva lot more complicated and much, much, much more physical than back in barna's day. even with the crap they played with back then, if you could create a time machine send wlq, or better yet, joo se hyuk back to the 30's, within no time either one would come to dominate the game.  actually, you could send back anybody in the top-1000... there is absolutely nothing wrong with the game of today.  it is the best it has ever been!! besides, what sense does it make to base your opinion of the game on a match between some clueless kid here in america and a former world junior champion and current member of the chinese nat'l team, the absolute best team in the world right now by far??

Exactly. TT is an incredibly difficult sport to play because every ball needs to be judged based on speed and spin and placed to perfection because if you dont it will either fly off the table, hit the net or get killed.

It's also a difficult sport to appreciate, seems like alot of people only enjoy a point because it was a long rally. They criticize a 3rd ball attack as boring and repetitive but there are so many skills such as game plan, placement, spin variation, footwork, anticipation involved for setting up such an attack.

icontek wrote: Correct. In that time period, the game enjoyed more popularity throughout the world, audiences were larger and the lack of variation in equipment meant that hundreds of thousands of basement worldwide players were able transition to competitive play without having to re-learn the entire game.

This is incorrect, you were talking about history, think about history again and you will know why this is incorrect. And its different from the explanation thats provided by takaaki, although his makes perfect sense.

icontek wrote: What you again conveniently ignore is that a vast majority of games between players of any level in current TT tend to look just like that game (at least superficially, 2-3 ball rallies, early attacks, lots of mistakes). What part of "the game design is broken" are you having trouble with?

The game design isn't broken, the design is actually quite simple. Its's the optimum play that makes it seem broken. The goal is to win points and the optimum play is to win points asap before you can make a mistake. Therefor you see short points, third ball attacks, mis-read of serves.