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Ricardote 
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 Topic: Booster banned???!!!
Posted: 04/23/2008 at 11:23am |
URGENT UPDATE!!!
My son is playing the World Junior Circuit. He played in Venezuela last week and is playing in Ecuador today.
He plays with Tibhar Clean Tunning Extra.
There are Enez-Ittf guys there testing rackets (don�t know for sure as he is not back, and he didn�t have it very clear).
HE WAS REJECTED.
He was told that "Clean tunning is a product that gives negative results in Enez".
!!!!!!!!!
If you read it carefully, it explains why.
So, chances are this will happen with other products (Stiga Extreme Booster, Falco�s products, etc.)
IS THE ITTF CRAZY????!!!
I don�t know what to do, as there is no information about this anywhere, neither in the ITTF site, the Tibhar site, or anywhere else.
Just in the tournaments and in the Enez site.
ANYBODY KNOWS ANYTHING ELSE ???
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dalamchops
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Posted: 04/23/2008 at 11:26am |
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unless your son tuned it the night before the tournament, i don't see how his racket didn't pass the test.
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Ricardote
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Posted: 04/23/2008 at 11:36am |
He boosted 3 days before the test. Please read the following link in the Enez site, where it explains that ALL BOOSTER may fail the test.
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chu_bun
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Posted: 04/23/2008 at 2:06pm |
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I just threw away a CTE tuned rubber yesterday. It has been more than a month and the rubber still emits a bad smell. So the answer to "whether a table tennis racket releases organic substances to the air." is definitely a "yes".
My impression from reading the "Use of intermediate substances" section is that it's a hit and miss thing when come to which "new" tuner/glue will fail/pass the test.
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Ricardote
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Posted: 04/23/2008 at 2:52pm |
AND FUNNY ENOUGH, DID YOU READ THE SECTION ("SOMETIMES RED SOMETIMES GREEN...") WHERE IT SAYS THAT IF YOU PUT YOUR RACKET IN FRESH AIR YOU CAN GET A "GREEN LIGHT"
OR
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melarimsa
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Posted: 04/23/2008 at 3:40pm |
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Is it going to affect this JUIC ECOLO II ???
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Ricardote
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Posted: 04/23/2008 at 4:04pm |
Melarimsa:
Read the link and look under "Intermediate Substances".
Basically it says there that if a substance lasts for weeks, this means that the substance evaporates.
I never used EE, but I think it lasts for the life of the rubber, so this could mean that it does not evaporate.
But for sure, nobody knows yet.
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7plywood
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Posted: 04/23/2008 at 4:09pm |
BTY High Tune rubbers also evaporate and people report that the effect is gone after a month or so. They are ITTF approved though. I wonder if they would pass the test if ENEZ is so sensitive.
Another question would be how individual devices differ - i.e. on one ENEZ box your racket passes the test and on a different one it does not - certainly that is possible.
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hallur
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Posted: 04/23/2008 at 7:02pm |
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I think that the ENEZ test is extremly unreliable...
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pingpongrob
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Posted: 04/23/2008 at 7:29pm |
 7plywood wrote:
BTY High Tune rubbers also evaporate and people report that the effect is gone after a month or so. They are ITTF approved though. I wonder if they would pass the test if ENEZ is so sensitive.
Another question would be how individual devices differ - i.e. on one ENEZ box your racket passes the test and on a different one it does not - certainly that is possible. |
Rubbers with the Bios logo, such as Andro Plasma have been made using 100% VOC Glues. I also spoke to one of the rubber Manufacturers, and they said the Boosters more than likely will be banned by 1st Sept.
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firetack
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 3:28am |
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rob will the plasma rubbers pass the enez test?
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bbkon
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 3:32am |
the answer is simple, the ENEZ is just an electronic nose, its has a microchip witha sensor where some susbtances change the resistance on the chip ,now this devices are being used in the industry to detect small amounts(like detecting fumes of exposives in airports) these devices are about 12,000$ now you must know how acurate must be a 400$ electronic nose, if they can be used in contaminat free enviroment
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pingpongrob
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 5:12am |
firetack wrote:
rob will the plasma rubbers pass the enez test? |
Yes 100% they are BIOS Tensor
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ffx-me
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 6:29am |
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Maybe its not the booster but the gue you used to glue the rubber to the blade after tuning it. if it wasnt water based glue.... problem found
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redbull
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 7:41am |
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Stupid people have invented these restrictions!
How do the professional players play?
It's all because the bureaucracy got its hands on table tennis. It's too much stress with the enez, and it shows disrespect to the hard work done by top players.
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Ricardote
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 8:16am |
Guys: My son is playing at a World Junior Circuit (ITTF).
Of course he played with his rubbers glued with a water based glue.
It was the booster who set up the alarm.
It seems that
1) the ITTF set up new rules: "Gas Pressure <0.3", and manufacturers and us trying with LO, etc, tried and played with that rule.
2)But now, ENEZ does not work with gas pressure, but with "air contamination", regardless of the danger of that contamination, meaning that Enez does not care about the contamination coming from Toluene or a harmless oil, but with anything that is on the air of the chamber of the detector after 60 seconds.
Tibhar, Stiga, Falco,etc. MUST work on new formulas fast, or the players will have to play with the new >U$S 60 rubbers only.
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Pjotr
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 8:43am |
Ricardote wrote:
Tibhar, Stiga, Falco,etc. MUST work on new formulas fast, or the players will have to play with the new >U$S 60 rubbers only.
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I think that would indeed be the purpose of the ITTF rules.
Because: (quote from letter of ITTF official)
In Guangzhou the following decision was made:
�The racket covering should be used as it has been authorised without any physical, chemical or other treatment (except normal wear) � changing or modifying playing properties, friction, outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc.�
This decision says nothing specifically about boosters etc. with or without volatile compounds (VC). However, why is boosters applied in the first place if it is not for changing something?
We are still waiting for the Rules Committee to finalise the wording, but I do not expect much difference here.
In the official announcement regarding the glue ban last summer ITTF wrote: �Players must ensure that their racket, racket covering, bonding materials, and any other part of their racket are free of any harmful volatile compounds.� This is still valid.
Then some argue that boosters are applied to the sponge only, and our question then is how can anyone stop an impact on the rubber ?
As you can see (at least that is what I understand from the above) tuners will be forbidden.
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Borko ST
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JimT
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 10:49am |
Ricardote wrote:
Guys: My son is playing at a World Junior Circuit (ITTF).
Of course he played with his rubbers glued with a water based glue.
It was the booster who set up the alarm.
It seems that
1) the ITTF set up new rules: "Gas Pressure <0.3", and manufacturers and us trying with LO, etc, tried and played with that rule.
2)But now, ENEZ does not work with gas pressure, but with "air contamination", regardless of the danger of that contamination, meaning that Enez does not care about the contamination coming from Toluene or a harmless oil, but with anything that is on the air of the chamber of the detector after 60 seconds.
Tibhar, Stiga, Falco,etc. MUST work on new formulas fast, or the players will have to play with the new >U$S 60 rubbers only.
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What if you are playing in the country/city with bad smog problem  - then every racket will be banned!
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TT_Freak
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 11:09am |
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Your son is still young enough to get used to playing without glue. The new ruling states that you don't tamper with the original properties of the rubber, I'm sure he'd prefer to just go with new tensors every tournament instead.
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bruno_ar2002
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 11:49am |
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Have anyone tested Donic Power Boost,
In the bottle is says, "According to new ITTF Regulation",
if this one does not pass the enez, what else ... have we all gone crazy, in my book donic would be making fraud, selling something that does not pass the new ITTF Regulation ?????????
Or maybe it evaporates so little that the enez does detect it ??????
I think its much more thicker than CTE, but it works only for two weeks. so we are at square one .... ???????
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Pjotr
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 12:07pm |
bruno_ar2002 wrote:
Have anyone tested Donic Power Boost,
In the bottle is says, "According to new ITTF Regulation",
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On the CTE bottle is written the same...(it could even be the same product in an other bottle).
It is the first time that I hear of an actual positive test on a tuner/booster, but this is what the ITTF intentions are anyway: no more tampering with rubber characteristics. If they can detect those PO-based products with ENEZ then they have solved a big issue for them. On the other hand, there are other ways to detect tuning (increase of thickness, rubber stretching, ...).
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Borko ST
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JRSDallas
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 12:33pm |
Why can't people understand the simple history of this topic and come to the correct conclusion:
A. A ban on VOCs glues was created by the ITTF which set a vapor pressure limit of 0.3 millibars. A piece of equipment was created to sniff for atmospheric contaminants of organic compounds within an enclosed volume after a proscribed period (Enez). The ITTF abandoned its "approved" glue list. This puts the responsibility of passing the test on the manufacturers.
Companies reacted by coming out with glues that meet 0.3 millibars but it seems likely that some of these products do not pass the Enez. Since the Enez is the ITTF selected test, some of the products claimed to meet the ITTF standard may not in fact pass the test. This means the companies selling the products did not do enough home work and/or people are using much more of the product in their sponge than the company tested for.
B. The ITTF drafted and will adopt a broader ban preventing all sponge and topsheet treatments. This means that nearly all of the new products that were supposed to meet the ITTF requirements discussed in "A" will now also be banned. The only ones that won't get banned are those products that are stictly used to stick the sponge or rubber to the wood without otherwise effecting the characteristics of the sponge or rubber.
CONCLUSION -- Use up your glue and boosters now since by September (for adults) they will be illegal. Between now and then, all players currently using boosters, speed glue, Spin Max or other products that effect the sponge or rubber in any way will have to find a rubber that they feel good (enough) about using as is out of the package.
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speaquinox
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 1:52pm |
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So that's the end of Sriver era :)
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Ricardote
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 2:38pm |
Guys:
Actually, The Ittf guys at the World Junior Circuit, said there (and please don't quote ME, but my son who is 13 y.o. heard it) that the Donic booster didn't set up the alarm, and he actually used it afterwards and the donic one didn't set up the alarm.
We like the Tibhar better, I am not making propaganda for Donic.
But I must give you this information.
If you read the following link, you will all understand better. It is posted at the ENEZ site:
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JRSDallas
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 6:40pm |
Sriver was popular before glue and booster ever existed. It will probably survive.
If there any boosters do pass the Enez test, they will be legal until the rubber treatment ban comes into effect (Item B on my pervious post).
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haggisv
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Posted: 04/24/2008 at 10:15pm |
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Berenger, who makes the Falco, Donic and BTY boosters, claim they have tested their booster with the enez, and it passed the test. I would be surprised if Tibhar had not done the same as well... I do wonder how accurate these machines are...
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JRSDallas
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Posted: 04/25/2008 at 1:02am |
The following is an educated guess about the nature of the Enez:
Given the price and the function it very likely that the Enez uses a low cost catalytic combustion gas sensor that is heated up to a set temperature level high enough to ignite any hydrocarbons in the local atmosphere. You calibrate the device using the empty Enez box and the instrument measures how much electric current is needed to hold the sensor at the set temperature. These sensors are used to detect combustion gases in sewers and mines, natural gas leaks and even carbon monoxide in home alarms.
After calibrating against an empty box, you then put the racket in. Any outgassed hydrocarbons will be ingnited by the hot surface of the sensor (the air density of the hydrocarbons is so low that there is no flame spread) and the combustion occurs at the surface of the sensor. This combustion helps heat the sensor so that less electric current is needed to keep the sensor at the operating temperature. If the electric current needed drops low enough, the Enez determines that the level of hydrocarbons have exceeded the allowed threashold.
The molecular weight of the hydrocarbons however might effect how efficiently they heat the sensor as they combust. If so, then the Enez might be more sensitive to some boosters or glues than others. For instance, you get more energy density out of gasoline than methanol so perhaps they would cause differnt sensor readings even if both were at the same absolue atmospheric concentrations.
These sensors are chemically delicate as well. If you get too high a level of hydrocarbons you can reduce the sensitivity of the sensor. Also, some gases can even poison the sensor by degrading the catalytic action to where it no longer ignites the burning of the hydrocarbons at the operating temperature of the sensor.
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haggisv
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Posted: 04/25/2008 at 1:18am |
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Wow, you show some impressive knowledge of the technogy! It sound to me like to need 2 calibration, one empty one and one with a known level of VOCs, or you can't be sure the readings are accuarte or if the sensor is stil functioning properly...
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fiveplyian
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Posted: 04/25/2008 at 6:46am |
This is getting really tedious.
Like a number of others I have approached the distributors / manufacturers to understand the current situation. It appears that the manufacturers have been warned by the ITTF that they are not happy with the booster situation and intend to make it clear that these will become illegal. Date unknown but the manufacturers have been put on notice of the likely direction.
Despite these warnings from several contributors the majority seem to ignore the warnings and are hell bent on finding another chemical enhancement regardless.
This is not the manufacturers fault but reading these threads it becomes ever more clear to me that it is the players fault:
1) Thread after thread describing massive boost using 20 zillion layers on topsheet plus sponge. The whole culture of doing anything a player can get away with to get a fast bat.
2) Players trying any substance they can lay their hands on ...... how hard is to see that the ITTF do not want to encourage a sporting culture that requires training from an early age but still to be reliant on every day application of chemicals to your bat.
3) These same players whinging about frictionless pips because they haven't the wit to learn to play a full range of strokes and learn how to play against different styles ...... but you still want to retain the 'right' haha to do whatever you want to your bat just so you can loop loop loop.
4) The frictionless guys are taking a hit ...... they will have to improve.
5) Speed gluers ....... just take the hit and learn to play with something else legal ...... you have so many choices of quick rubber what is your problem ? Its supposed to be a sport; a test of skill; yes counter looping (for one) will be harder amongst other things; deal with it.
I am adding block variations, topspin variations etc etc to my game ready for next season. The ITTF are just trying to apply some control to the equipment that can be used rather than having the wild west proliferate.
It will still be a test of skill probably more so.
There will still be cheats just like now (you and they will know who they are ..... just like now).
Get ready
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cmetsbeltran15
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Posted: 04/25/2008 at 6:57am |
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Amen to that, fiveplyian.
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