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boosters illegal or not |
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dani the dude
Member Joined: 01/17/2009 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Posted: 01/20/2009 at 12:39pm |
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hi guys whats up i just recently bought juic ecolo booster and was wondering if it is legal or not and i must say i was impressed by its performence. and it drys up preety quickly within 2 hours
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tbs fh bryce speed bh jp sonex gold
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pongcrazy
Gold Member Joined: 07/07/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1055 |
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ILLEGAL for any ITTF or USATT tournament play.
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Viscaria, H3 Neo, Coppa X1 Gold
7p2a-7t, TG2 Neo, Acuda S2 |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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If you do not intend to go to the tourneys where they actually check rackets with ENEZ, then you should be fine.
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
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varghesep
Premier Member Joined: 09/28/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3111 |
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Can you talk to the Pakistan Table Tennis Association and find out? They may be following the ITTF rules.
As JimT has said, you are okay if you are not participating in any approved tournaments.
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pongcrazy
Gold Member Joined: 07/07/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1055 |
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USATT requires ENEZ testing for 3 and 4 star sanctioned events. 1 and 2 star sanctions are up to the tournament director, and should be so noted on the entry form for the tournament if testing will take place.
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Viscaria, H3 Neo, Coppa X1 Gold
7p2a-7t, TG2 Neo, Acuda S2 |
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dani the dude
Member Joined: 01/17/2009 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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they are checking with enez
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tbs fh bryce speed bh jp sonex gold
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dani the dude
Member Joined: 01/17/2009 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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so what boosters are legal
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tbs fh bryce speed bh jp sonex gold
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pongcrazy
Gold Member Joined: 07/07/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1055 |
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technically no boosters are legal. |
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Viscaria, H3 Neo, Coppa X1 Gold
7p2a-7t, TG2 Neo, Acuda S2 |
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NoFootwork
Silver Member Joined: 10/27/2006 Location: Dark side Status: Offline Points: 692 |
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All boosters and any rubber/sponge treatment done on a rubber outside of the original manufacturer have been declared illegal by the ITTF.
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dani the dude
Member Joined: 01/17/2009 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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man that is rough for me because i want speed and as much as i could get
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tbs fh bryce speed bh jp sonex gold
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varghesep
Premier Member Joined: 09/28/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3111 |
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The basic rule is that you can't change the characteristics of the rubber with any performance enhancing solution.
If you want more speed and spin, you have to look at some of the new generation rubbers. You may also have to look at changing your paddle / bat that can give more speed and power.
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ppmax
Super Member Joined: 10/10/2007 Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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It's simple. You can do whatever you like as long as Enez loves your paddle.
Pros have access to Enez. They can experiment with their rubbers, and know for sure which will pass the test. For us, though, we don't have access to Enez. We don't know for sure how to treat our rubbers in a Enez-friendly way. |
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varghesep
Premier Member Joined: 09/28/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3111 |
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Still that is risky. On the day of the tournament, they may have a surprise from the ENEZ.
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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hi guys whats up i just recently bought juic ecolo booster and was wondering if it is legal or not and i must say i was impressed by its performence. and it drys up preety quickly within 2 hours
As long as Adham, Odd and their Equipment Committee let Stiga sell "Boost" TP and TC rubbers and let Joola sell their clearly-tuned Express II and Green Energy rubbers, then voc-free boosters are not illegal and never were by precedent as practiced by the ITTF. Laws that allow exceptions to a few companies to apply voc-free boosters and tuners freely to their $55 rubbers, plus letting them stretch the topsheet and sponge in the factory at will are not worth the paper they are written on. Don't worry about Enez. Enez can't detect any voc free boosters because there's no voc to detect, lol.
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dani the dude
Member Joined: 01/17/2009 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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so are there any special boosters for the enez does not detect
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tbs fh bryce speed bh jp sonex gold
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metalone
Silver Member Joined: 01/21/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 693 |
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No boosters are legal, if it was not part of the original manufacturing process.
The question should be, "Are there boosters that don't get detected by Enez"? and thus you cannot get disqualified.
I did try rubbers that were boosted by Falco and I brought the racket to the US Nationals and had it tested with their Enez and it passed. Falco's process is supposed to last for 3 months, I used the racket for 1.5 months, before ruining the rubber and it still had the same boosting affect.
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Gave up listing, too many changes.
Blade - Yes BH - Rubber Red FH - Rubber Black |
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BACKHAND
Super Member Joined: 11/24/2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 179 |
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Failing the Enez test isn't the only way a rubber can be disqualified.
At any tournament regardless if its testing with the Enez machine.
The referee can disqualify a rubber for uneveness and/or thickness(over 4mm)
The problems with using tuners/boosters is they can do both these things to a rubber.
If you look closley at a rubber that has been tuned it could and does look differently than one that hasn't.
It becomes more translucent and can look stretched. Which is illegal anyway.
Any good referee will hopefully stop the cheaters.
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STIGA CARBON
Tibhar Nimbus Sound 2.0mm FH Butterfly Tenergy 64 2.1mm BH http://www.mkttl.co.uk/ |
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varghesep
Premier Member Joined: 09/28/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3111 |
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Did that happen naturally, or did you break it or something like that?
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NoFootwork
Silver Member Joined: 10/27/2006 Location: Dark side Status: Offline Points: 692 |
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The current Enez does not detect any boosters that do not contain VOC. However, ITTF is working with manufacturer of Enez to make it even more sensitive. They will also introduce a second machine (RAE?) which will supposedly check for non-VOC compounds present in rackets. I doubt this second machine will be used at smaller tournaments.
ITTF is also enforcing more stringent checking of rubber thickness, visual inspection whether rubber appears to be stretched, covers blade, etc.
Regardless whether boosters can or can not be detected by the equipment or manual inspection, bottom line is that ITTF has stated that these things are now illegal to use for international tournaments sanctioned by them. They have also stated that it is up to the a member Country's association on how to follow these new rules for their own tournaments. If your country is following ITTF, then using boosters is cheating under the new rules, whether or not you agree with the ban for these substances.
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pongcrazy
Gold Member Joined: 07/07/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1055 |
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Please post a list of the VOC free boosters and tuners you are speaking of. Thanks.
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Viscaria, H3 Neo, Coppa X1 Gold
7p2a-7t, TG2 Neo, Acuda S2 |
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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Please post a list of the VOC free boosters and tuners you are speaking of. Thanks.
You can still buy some of the VOC-free boosters/tuners out there. Some are still available from Dandoy, Falco, etc. There were quite a few others made by large table tennis equipment manufacturers in Japan that are now disappearing in the main market, with prominent ITTF logo on their cans. Now you have to spend some effort to locate any of these among dealers. However, there's no magic in making these boosters/tuners, so anyone who wants it will be able to get it. And yes, they are way safer than the gasoline that you pumped into your car recently and combusted this morning! Anyways, most are composed of hydrocarbon-based ultra-refined paraffin oil or the like, and no Enez can detect them.
ITTF is out of their minds thinking they can control whoever they want to make the sponges softer or more elastic. Now most Pro Tours players are bona fide cheaters, either playing with factory tuned/stretched versions of such illegal rubbers or do it themselves. What is the difference? The "law" (or shall I say "rule" made-up by ITTF) should apply equally to everyone. Cheating is cheating.
If a rule is broken by all players in the field it's no longer a rule.
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ppmax
Super Member Joined: 10/10/2007 Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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I don't use booster, but here's my opinion:
For sinners, allow your conscience be your guide and do whatever you like with your rubbers (piss on them, slow-cook them...), as long as they pass the tests. For perfect people (by that I mean those who never go over 65mph and don't have any unpaid song in their mp3 player), buy Tenergy. And stop the sermons. |
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NoFootwork
Silver Member Joined: 10/27/2006 Location: Dark side Status: Offline Points: 692 |
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The problem I have with your analogy for "perfect people" is that in TT you are competing against your opponent to win a match. You are supposed to have an even playing field with respect to approved equipment and not gain an unfair advantage using disallowed equipment, drugs, whatever.
Some athletes in all sports cheat, with the possible exception of Golf where players will impose penalties on themselves in case they break a rule, even if inadvertantly. If and when these athletes get caught, penalties can be quite harsh such as stripping gold medals, not mentioning their achievements in record books, suspension, etc. All these sports are trying to ensure that athletic competition is occuring fairly within the defined rules of the sport and thereby preserving its integrity. TT should be no different.
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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All these sports are trying to ensure that athletic competition is occuring fairly within the defined rules of the sport and thereby preserving its integrity. TT should be no different.
Please explain how players using clearly stretched and boosted $55 rubbers provided by manufacturers are not cheating vs. those who use $10 rubbers who tune themselves with voc-free products. The ITTF has banned stretching and tuning for everyone.
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metalone
Silver Member Joined: 01/21/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 693 |
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I smacked the edge of the table and ripped the top sheet - Bryce Sp Fx. After tuning it was a little too soft, but fun to play with, very fast on a Timo Boll tri-carbon.
Falco states that they remove the top sheet before treating the sponge, so the top sheet does not stretch and therefore will pass any physical check, just make sure that the thickness is below 4mm, mine was @ 4mm exactly.
As a note, if tuning is legal for manufactures (pre factory tuned - blue whale ll etc.), why is it illegal for the end user "US'?
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Gave up listing, too many changes.
Blade - Yes BH - Rubber Red FH - Rubber Black |
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NoFootwork
Silver Member Joined: 10/27/2006 Location: Dark side Status: Offline Points: 692 |
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No it has not, at least for the time being. ITTF has defined the equipment rules and issued subsequent interpretations thereof by Adham and Odd. Those interpretations by the ITTF permit tensors and any other rubbers that a player uses as delivered by the factory/manufacturer. They have also clearly stated that a player, store, etc. cannot tune a rubber. As per this interpretation of the allowable rubber rules by ITTF, tensors and similar rubbers are legal as long as you do not further modify it and therefore using them is not cheating. Self tuned or post manufactured tuning not done by the factory as part of assembling the final rubber sheet sold to the public are illegal. So if you use such a sheet it is not considered legal, and therefore is cheating.
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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No it has not, at least for the time being. ITTF has defined the equipment rules and issued subsequent interpretations thereof by Adham and Odd. Those interpretations by the ITTF permit tensors and any other rubbers that a player uses as delivered by the factory/manufacturer. They have also clearly stated that a player, store, etc. cannot tune a rubber. As per this interpretation of the allowable rubber rules by ITTF, tensors and similar rubbers are legal as long as you do not further modify it and therefore using them is not cheating. Self tuned or post manufactured tuning not done by the factory as part of assembling the final rubber sheet sold to the public are illegal. So if you use such a sheet it is not considered legal, and therefore is cheating. Adham has clearly stated that stretching and tuning of any rubber is not permitted by any party, including the manufacturers. You can dig out his own post stating so somewhere in this forum, if you have the time. It is actually stated so in ITTF's own rule book (T4, I believe?). Adham and Odd can not bend the rules of ITTF even if they want to.
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NoFootwork
Silver Member Joined: 10/27/2006 Location: Dark side Status: Offline Points: 692 |
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Adham had a lot of postings here and in other forums. Not sure in what context he may have stated what you wrote above. However, ITTF publishes a list of approved racket coverings. Tensors such as Andro Plasma are on the latest list. Whatever the manufacturing process Andro uses for producing Andro, it must meet ITTF approval as that tensor is approved for use as long as you use it as it was delivered in the package without any further modification to the sponge or topsheet. If ITTF has an issue regarding a racket covering, it gets removed from approved list (I think they now have instituted a grace period before its removed.)
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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This subject has been beaten to death and I am really not interested to start it again. In summary, the ITTF only approves topsheets, not with sponge, as manufacturers submit topsheets only for approval, as per rule of ITTF. It's on ITTF's rule book as well, you might want to look it up. The ITTF has no idea what manufacturers do after approval to add tension or elasticity to the sponges before gluing them to the approved topsheets.
Adham, when pressed by forum members about the legality of these practices by certain manufacturers, changed his stance from any party to that of "as long as they are not done by the players themselves then it's okay". His vocal approval for manufacturers to stretch and tune are not authorized anywhere on ITTF's rule book. The current rule is still that of such practices"by any party, is not permitted".
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haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
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Yes Adham has indeed said that tuning/stretching by the factory is legal (within limits)... but in the end it's just his interpretation...in the end what's in the rules, and how the refereree/umpire of your game interprets this, is all that counts...
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