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boosters illegal or not

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    Posted: 01/20/2009 at 12:39pm
hi guys whats up i just recently bought juic ecolo booster and was wondering if it is legal or not  and i must say i was impressed by its performence. and it drys up preety quickly within 2 hours
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ILLEGAL for any ITTF or USATT tournament play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2009 at 12:41pm
If you do not intend to go to the tourneys where they actually check rackets with ENEZ, then you should be fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote varghesep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2009 at 12:45pm
Can you talk to the Pakistan Table Tennis Association and find out? They may be following the ITTF rules.
 
As JimT has said, you are okay if you are not participating in any approved tournaments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongcrazy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2009 at 12:47pm
USATT requires ENEZ  testing for 3 and 4 star sanctioned events.  1 and 2 star sanctions are up to the tournament director, and should be so noted on the entry form for the tournament if testing will take place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dani the dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2009 at 12:49pm
they are checking with enez
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dani the dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2009 at 12:50pm
so what boosters are legal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongcrazy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2009 at 12:51pm

technically no boosters are legal.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoFootwork Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2009 at 12:52pm
All boosters and any rubber/sponge treatment done on a rubber outside of the original manufacturer have been declared illegal by the ITTF.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dani the dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2009 at 12:55pm
man that is rough for me because i want speed and as much as i could get
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote varghesep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2009 at 1:00pm
The basic rule is that you can't change the characteristics of the rubber with any performance enhancing solution.
 
If you want more speed and spin, you have to look at some of the new generation rubbers. You may also have to look at changing your paddle / bat that can give more speed and power.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ppmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2009 at 1:22pm
It's simple. You can do whatever you like as long as Enez loves your paddle.

Pros have access to Enez. They can experiment with their rubbers, and know for sure which will pass the test.

For us, though, we don't have access to Enez. We don't know for sure how to treat our rubbers in a Enez-friendly way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote varghesep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2009 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by ppmax ppmax wrote:

...Pros have access to Enez. They can experiment with their rubbers, and know for sure which will pass the test....
 
Still that is risky. On the day of the tournament, they may have a surprise from the ENEZ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2009 at 5:04pm
hi guys whats up i just recently bought juic ecolo booster and was wondering if it is legal or not  and i must say i was impressed by its performence. and it drys up preety quickly within 2 hours
 
 
 
As long as Adham, Odd and their Equipment Committee let Stiga sell "Boost" TP and TC rubbers and let Joola sell their clearly-tuned Express II and Green Energy rubbers, then voc-free boosters are not illegal and never were by precedent as practiced by the ITTF.  Laws that allow exceptions to a few companies to apply voc-free boosters and tuners freely to their $55 rubbers, plus letting them stretch the topsheet and sponge in the factory at will are not worth the paper they are written on.  Don't worry about Enez.  Enez can't detect any voc free boosters because there's no voc to detect, lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dani the dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2009 at 8:19pm
so are there any special boosters for the enez does not detect
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote metalone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2009 at 3:15am
No boosters are legal, if it was not part of the original manufacturing process.
The question should be, "Are there boosters that don't get detected by Enez"? and thus you cannot get disqualified.
 
I did try rubbers that were boosted by Falco and I brought the racket to the US Nationals and had it tested with their Enez and it passed.  Falco's process is supposed to last for 3 months, I used the racket for 1.5 months, before ruining the rubber and it still had the same boosting affect.
 
Gave up listing, too many changes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BACKHAND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2009 at 9:39am
Failing the Enez test isn't the only way a rubber can be disqualified.
At any tournament regardless if its testing with the Enez machine.
The referee can disqualify a rubber for uneveness and/or thickness(over 4mm)
 
The problems with using tuners/boosters is they can do both these things to a rubber.
If you look closley at a rubber that has been tuned it could and does look differently than one that hasn't.
It becomes more translucent and can look stretched. Which is illegal anyway.
Any good referee will hopefully stop the cheaters. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote varghesep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2009 at 11:59am
Originally posted by metalone metalone wrote:

...before ruining the rubber and ... 
 
Did that happen naturally, or did you break it or something like that?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoFootwork Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2009 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by dani the dude dani the dude wrote:

so are there any special boosters for the enez does not detect
 
The current Enez does not detect any boosters that do not contain VOC.  However, ITTF is working with manufacturer of Enez to make it even more sensitive.  They will also introduce a second machine (RAE?) which will supposedly check for non-VOC compounds present in rackets.  I doubt this second machine will be used at smaller tournaments.
 
ITTF is also enforcing more stringent checking of rubber thickness, visual inspection whether rubber appears to be stretched, covers blade, etc.
 
Regardless whether boosters can or can not be detected by the equipment or manual inspection, bottom line is that ITTF has stated that these things are now illegal to use for international tournaments sanctioned by them.  They have also stated that it is up to the a member Country's association on how to follow these new rules for their own tournaments.  If your country is following ITTF, then using boosters is cheating under the new rules, whether or not you agree with the ban for  these substances.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongcrazy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2009 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

hi guys whats up i just recently bought juic ecolo booster and was wondering if it is legal or not  and i must say i was impressed by its performence. and it drys up preety quickly within 2 hours
 
 
 
As long as Adham, Odd and their Equipment Committee let Stiga sell "Boost" TP and TC rubbers and let Joola sell their clearly-tuned Express II and Green Energy rubbers, then voc-free boosters are not illegal and never were by precedent as practiced by the ITTF.  Laws that allow exceptions to a few companies to apply voc-free boosters and tuners freely to their $55 rubbers, plus letting them stretch the topsheet and sponge in the factory at will are not worth the paper they are written on.  Don't worry about Enez.  Enez can't detect any voc free boosters because there's no voc to detect, lol.
 
Please post a list of the VOC free boosters and tuners you are speaking of.  Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2009 at 1:59pm
Please post a list of the VOC free boosters and tuners you are speaking of.  Thanks.
 
 
You can still buy some of the VOC-free boosters/tuners out there.  Some are still available from Dandoy, Falco, etc.  There were quite a few others made by large table tennis equipment manufacturers in Japan that are now disappearing in the main market, with prominent ITTF logo on their cans.  Now you have to spend some effort to locate any of these among dealers.  However, there's no magic in making these boosters/tuners, so anyone who wants it will be able to get it.  And yes, they are way safer than the gasoline that you pumped into your car recently and combusted this morning!  Anyways, most are composed of hydrocarbon-based ultra-refined paraffin oil or the like, and no Enez can detect them. 
 
ITTF is out of their minds thinking they can control whoever they want to make the sponges softer or more elastic.  Now most Pro Tours players are bona fide cheaters, either playing with factory tuned/stretched versions of such illegal rubbers or do it themselves.  What is the difference?  The "law" (or shall I say "rule" made-up by ITTF) should apply equally to everyone.  Cheating is cheating. 
 
If a rule is broken by all players in the field it's no longer a rule.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ppmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2009 at 2:44pm
I don't use booster, but here's my opinion:

For sinners, allow your conscience be your guide and do whatever you like with your rubbers (piss on them, slow-cook them...), as long as they pass the tests.

For perfect people (by that I mean those who never go over 65mph and don't have any unpaid song in their mp3 player), buy Tenergy. And stop the sermons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoFootwork Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2009 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by ppmax ppmax wrote:

I don't use booster, but here's my opinion:

For sinners, allow your conscience be your guide and do whatever you like with your rubbers (piss on them, slow-cook them...), as long as they pass the tests.

For perfect people (by that I mean those who never go over 65mph and don't have any unpaid song in their mp3 player), buy Tenergy. And stop the sermons.
 
The problem I have with your analogy for "perfect people" is that in TT you are competing against your opponent to win a match.  You are supposed to have an even playing field with respect to approved equipment and not gain an unfair advantage using disallowed equipment, drugs, whatever. 
 
Some athletes in all sports cheat, with the possible exception of Golf where players will impose penalties on themselves in case they break a rule, even if inadvertantly.  If and when these athletes get caught, penalties can be quite harsh such as stripping gold medals, not mentioning their achievements in record books, suspension, etc.  All these sports are trying to ensure that athletic competition is occuring fairly within the defined rules of the sport and thereby preserving its integrity.  TT should be no different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2009 at 3:10pm
All these sports are trying to ensure that athletic competition is occuring fairly within the defined rules of the sport and thereby preserving its integrity.  TT should be no different.
 
 
Please explain how players using clearly stretched and boosted $55 rubbers provided by manufacturers are not cheating vs. those who use $10 rubbers who tune themselves with voc-free products.  The ITTF has banned stretching and tuning for everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote metalone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2009 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by varghesep varghesep wrote:

Originally posted by metalone metalone wrote:

...before ruining the rubber and ... 
 
Did that happen naturally, or did you break it or something like that?
 
 
I smacked the edge of the table and ripped the top sheet - Bryce Sp Fx.  After tuning it was a little too soft, but fun to play with, very fast on a Timo Boll tri-carbon.
Falco states that they remove the top sheet before treating the sponge, so the top sheet does not stretch and therefore will pass any physical check, just make sure that the thickness is below 4mm, mine was @ 4mm exactly.
As a note, if tuning is legal for manufactures (pre factory tuned - blue whale ll etc.), why is it illegal for the end user "US'?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoFootwork Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2009 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

All these sports are trying to ensure that athletic competition is occuring fairly within the defined rules of the sport and thereby preserving its integrity.  TT should be no different.
 
 
Please explain how players using clearly stretched and boosted $55 rubbers provided by manufacturers are not cheating vs. those who use $10 rubbers who tune themselves with voc-free products.  The ITTF has banned stretching and tuning to everyone.
 
No it has not, at least for the time being.  ITTF has defined the equipment rules and issued subsequent interpretations thereof by Adham and Odd.  Those interpretations by the ITTF permit tensors and any other rubbers that a player uses as delivered by the factory/manufacturer.  They have also clearly stated that a player, store, etc. cannot tune a rubber.  As per this interpretation of the allowable rubber rules by ITTF, tensors and similar rubbers are legal as long as you do not further modify it and therefore using them is not cheating.  Self tuned or post manufactured tuning not done by the factory as part of assembling the final rubber sheet sold to the public are illegal.  So if you use such a sheet it is not considered legal, and therefore is cheating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2009 at 3:36pm
No it has not, at least for the time being.  ITTF has defined the equipment rules and issued subsequent interpretations thereof by Adham and Odd.  Those interpretations by the ITTF permit tensors and any other rubbers that a player uses as delivered by the factory/manufacturer.  They have also clearly stated that a player, store, etc. cannot tune a rubber.  As per this interpretation of the allowable rubber rules by ITTF, tensors and similar rubbers are legal as long as you do not further modify it and therefore using them is not cheating.  Self tuned or post manufactured tuning not done by the factory as part of assembling the final rubber sheet sold to the public are illegal.  So if you use such a sheet it is not considered legal, and therefore is cheating.
 
 
 
Adham has clearly stated that stretching and tuning of any rubber is not permitted by any party, including the manufacturers.  You can dig out his own post stating so somewhere in this forum, if you have the time.  It is actually stated so in ITTF's own rule book (T4, I believe?).  Adham and Odd can not bend the rules of ITTF even if they want to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoFootwork Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2009 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

No it has not, at least for the time being.  ITTF has defined the equipment rules and issued subsequent interpretations thereof by Adham and Odd.  Those interpretations by the ITTF permit tensors and any other rubbers that a player uses as delivered by the factory/manufacturer.  They have also clearly stated that a player, store, etc. cannot tune a rubber.  As per this interpretation of the allowable rubber rules by ITTF, tensors and similar rubbers are legal as long as you do not further modify it and therefore using them is not cheating.  Self tuned or post manufactured tuning not done by the factory as part of assembling the final rubber sheet sold to the public are illegal.  So if you use such a sheet it is not considered legal, and therefore is cheating.
 
 
 
Adham has clearly stated that stretching and tuning of any rubber is cheating by any party, including the manufacturers.  You can dig out his own post stating so somewhere in this forum, if you have the time.
 
Adham had a lot of postings here and in other forums.  Not sure in what context he may have stated what you wrote above.  However, ITTF publishes a list of approved racket coverings.  Tensors such as Andro Plasma are on the latest list.  Whatever the manufacturing process Andro uses for producing Andro, it must meet ITTF approval as that tensor is approved for use as long as you use it as it was delivered in the package without any further modification to the sponge or topsheet.  If ITTF has an issue regarding a racket covering, it gets removed from approved list (I think they now have instituted a grace period before its removed.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2009 at 4:38pm
This subject has been beaten to death and I am really not interested to start it again.  In summary, the ITTF only approves topsheets, not with sponge, as manufacturers submit topsheets only for approval, as per rule of ITTF.  It's on ITTF's rule book as well, you might want to look it up.  The ITTF has no idea what manufacturers do after approval to add tension or elasticity to the sponges before gluing them to the approved topsheets. 
 
Adham, when pressed by forum members about the legality of these practices by certain manufacturers, changed his stance from any party to that of "as long as they are not done by the players themselves then it's okay".  His vocal approval for manufacturers to stretch and tune are not authorized anywhere on ITTF's rule book.  The current rule is still that of such practices"by any party, is not permitted".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2009 at 7:21pm
Yes Adham has indeed said that tuning/stretching by the factory is legal (within limits)... but in the end it's just his interpretation...in the end what's in the rules, and how the refereree/umpire of your game interprets this, is all that counts...
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