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carbon vs all wood |
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berkeleydoctor
Silver Member Joined: 01/06/2010 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 699 |
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Posted: 06/16/2015 at 7:15pm |
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so i've only ever used carbon blades, but one of the top players at my club is trying to convince me that all wood is the way to go
i was wondering what are peoples' reasonings on why carbon or all wood?
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Entirely a question of taste. Try his blade to see if you like it.
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vivan4tt
Super Member Joined: 11/07/2008 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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If you have very good touch, go allwood. Else go composite.
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Mizutani sZLC / T05fx / T05fx
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serveintoattack
Beginner Joined: 05/06/2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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well comes down to preference. i started on Carbon then decided Wood suits me more. no need for the "extra" power that carbon provides
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asifgunz
Gold Member Joined: 09/15/2013 Location: Queens NY Status: Offline Points: 1448 |
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Vivan4tt what do you mean by having touch?
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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speedy
Gold Member Joined: 01/21/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1802 |
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This is probably not the answer you are looking for, but it's a very similar thinking. Most of my life, I have been using composite blades because they gave me the power that I needed for my smashing games. For the last 6, 7 years, I am leaning toward all wood blades or softer composite blades with OFF- (i.e. Michael Maze). For me, the question is not really Carbon blades vs. all wood blades. The real question is fast blades (OFF+) or slower blades (OFF-). For me, I am choosing slower blades to control my shots. I rather put 1 more ball on the table than add another 10 mile to my shots. So why? As my game and my shots get better, I feel like I have plenty of power to put the ball away; however, I need to be able to place the ball where my opponent does not like. In addition, I need to handle/return/block powerful shots from my opponents. In short, it makes sense for me to go with slower blades. Don't go with ALL- or slower, but OFF- will do the job. Good luck, Edited by speedy - 06/16/2015 at 9:58pm |
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SPEEDY
Viscaria Super ALC ST JOOLA Rhyzen CMD(FH) Nittaku Moristo SP (BH) |
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thethinker
Silver Member Joined: 11/17/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 776 |
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According to Ma Long's personal coach the main advantage of carbon is faster strokes. Otherwise all wood is better.
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right2niru
Silver Member Joined: 11/10/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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I had given this question a thought multiple times in my life and the conclusion i came up with based on my experience is carbon blades provide the directional control and speed much better than All wood blades . So strokes like blocking , countering , hits and smashes will have much better directional stability than similar rated All wood blade . All wood blades provide better spin generation capability than the similar rated Carbon blades however at the cost of speed . Some of the modern all wood / composite are trying to bridge that gap but at the cost of lot more money ;
Long story short at some point we would love playing with our equipment and wouldn't want to change for anything thats when you attain nirvana !
Edited by right2niru - 06/16/2015 at 11:23pm |
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ZJK SZLC |5Q+
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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You are using an ALC blade, which is not as bad as some pure carbon blades. That said, it is largely not as responsive as a wood blade but how one feels about it is still largely personal. The first thing is stiffness (which is related to thickness - composite/carbon blades can be thin, stiff and fast, while wood blades have to be thicker to be fast). Wooden blades tend to vibrate a little more and therefore provide more feedback than carbon composites. The second thing is speed - wood blades based on their material composition can be put into thinner and slower blades, while composite blades tend to be faster and reflect more pace. There is also a non-linearity with composite blades sometimes when the carbon is buried within the blade - there needs to be enough contact to activate the carbon - some people like this kick on harder shots, while some people do not like the non-linear change and want to keep the feeling of change in ball rebound intuitive. Blade speed is related to stiffness and the feeling of dwell, but has an independent dimension in ball rebound and whether you prefer to aggressively topspin or you want to reflect your opponent's pace. Very fast blades (straight OFF/OFF+) tend to be for people who mostly want to reflect speed and spin while blades (ALL+/OFF-) tend to be for people who want to generate their own speed and spin. Peopel who use the former blades will often be found counterlooping off the table at some point with fast blocks, while people who use the latter will often be found opening and topspinning very aggressively close to the table with more all round ball control. The most popular ALC/ZLC blades today are largely composites which try to simulate the linear feeling of wood. That said, if you are someone who likes blade feedback or could use it to learn how your strokes should ideally feel, you may be very surprised how much less feedback you are getting from an ALC blade vs. an all wood blade. Or you may have very good feeling and find the feedback from a wood blade too much. I personally have become more of a ALL+/OFF- blade user (someone who likes to open early and topspin close to the table with ball manipulation as a focus). I almost never play more than 5 ft off the table so for me, my focus is trying to topspin as early as possible and work the table to get the first shot. I use the slower blades to make up for my inability to time the ball well enough to use a faster blade for short pushes and aggressive close to the table topspins (more practice and coaching than I have time and money for).
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Machine_Head
Super Member Joined: 07/24/2014 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 266 |
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I played an Infinity for almost a year and before that a Clipper CR. I have tried (but not owned) composites like Gergely Alpha, Mizutani (I don't know which one, it had a blue handle), and a Donic. They all felt a bit numb, like I had a layer of dead skin on my hand. I couldn't feel the ball properly. Until recently I switched to Adidas Avenger Carbon. It had the feel of an all wood blade plus it is more stable and faster. Control was better too compared to the all wood blades I own.
If this is the direction of modern composite blades, then those who prefer wood may have more options. Just my opinion. |
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berkeleydoctor
Silver Member Joined: 01/06/2010 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 699 |
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so i agree with what everyone has said. and i guess i've always known my answer is all wood, but composite just seems "cooler"
but i definitely can generate my own power, my misses are typically go long, so all wood is definitely the way to go i was searching about handles recently and i've read alot about stiga's conic (named champ) and master and legend flared handles. i have big hands and my viscaria has been giving me blisters lately because of the constant adjustment in my hands, does anyone have good recommendations for all wood blades with nice big handles?
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lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
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Charlie at BBC makes what U are looking for!!! If he doesn't have something now I have a WRC one play 9.2 thick at 83 grams with a large oversize handle F/S at $30. custom made by BBC but the handle is to big for me. here is a link to his site http://www.bladesbycharlie.com/company
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frogger
Premier Member Joined: 08/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
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I have of late favored an all wood blade. Composites do provide a larger sweet spot and at least mentally more perceived power. As like many here I play close/mid and don't need the extra speed they may provide. You guys may laugh at me but I see no difference now in speed using ALL+ Mark V Max as opposed to when I was using TBS/Viscaria with Tenergys. Away from table a definite yes there is a difference. I love the vibration and feel of all wood but I also miss the solid feel and the better blocking ability of TBS/Viscaria. |
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Wood Paddle
Red side Black side. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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The Tibhar Samsonov/Stratus blades tend to do well in that regard for flare handles - I especially like the original Force Pro handle in flare. I don't know about the Powerwood handle's size first hand (I've not played with it extensively), but I have heard that the handle is pretty awesome as well.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Have you tried all-wood? If not, then don't assume it is better just because of stuff you have read on the internet. It can really only be figured out empirically*. Try it for sure and see if it works better for you. It may. It also may not. If you try one, you might as well use one of the classics used by good players, something like a Korbel, a Clipper, or as NL mentioned, the Stratus Powerwood. Or maybe one of the really good Donic woods like an Appelgren Allplay. Stiga Legend has big handle. Stratus Powerwood is especially comfortable for big hands. The Korbel handle will probably be too small. * In my experience it is not as simple as "slower means more control", it depends on why you miss. If you have to swing harder to get the penetration you are used to, you may mis-time more with a slower blade, leading to a paradoxical loss of control. The Btfly ALC you are using now is not superfast. |
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berkeleydoctor
Silver Member Joined: 01/06/2010 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 699 |
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yeah this is what i'm worried about, i've messed around with others' all wood in the past and some have significant vibration and some dont, i can't stand the vibration, so i'm searching for that. unfortunately, we only have a few elite players here and almost all of them use composite except for our penhold sp hitter so it's tough to try a lot of different blades here
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I also do not like all-wood vibration as a rule (and one of my practice partners can't play without it). Among the all-woods I have tried, the Stratus Powerwood is not very buzzy to play with, and it is one of the easiest transitions for a composite player. With that said, trust me, I have been down that road. I always returned to my Viscaria. That's how I know that slower = more control is an over-simplification. But that is me, not you. It may not be the same for you. Only one way to know.
There is another alternative too, which is the intermediate step, something like an INnerforce. |
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berkeleydoctor
Silver Member Joined: 01/06/2010 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 699 |
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haha i have an innerforce alc sitting on my desk at home
yeah i'm thinking about getting the stratus powerwood to try, but probably after the us open
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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I think that there has to be some something said about the subjective feeling of a blade vs. the objective results one has using it. Slower blades definitely allow for a broader range of responses vs. faster blades given the same degree of input power and touch. However, one may not need that range on the low end, and the high end of that range (depending on how slow the blade is) may cap out too early for a particular player. And as you pointed out, one may not have or like making the kind of contact required to get the most out of a blade change. It's very easy to use a blade, have results that are comparable to or even slightly better than what was achieved before you switched blades, and then just not like the feel of it. Usually, what defines whether a blade change is good or not is that one has to stick with it for a good period (say a month or more) and then see whether one has the ability to get a result that one could not get before the change. For most people, this is relatively hard to do, but it is the only way to semi-objectively evaluate a blade change. Then based on looking at what the blade gave and took away, then one makes a decision. For players who are still fairly rapidly improving, the contribution of equipment is largely suspect because you never know how their technique would have adapted if forced to use something else.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Yes. I think this is right.
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