Chinese forehand Vs. Euro forehand?

icontek wrote: APW46 wrote: I honestly think that the perspective that players/members of this forum look at this, is directly associated to their level of play, I'm saying no more on this, other than that there are many levels of standards between WLC etc, and the players/members of this forum post their views accordingly, my personal view, as a coach that specialises in improving the standard of players who are not potential internationals, are not ever going to reach the heights of International play, do not practice full time, are not sponsored, Are not a part of an international program for producing top players, do not have the time, money or inclination to play at the top level, Are well above the age at which any of the above is realistically possible, but just wish to be a little better in their play, Leave this stuff alone, be honest about your realistic expectations, don't try to copy WLC's F/hand drive, develop your own, personal to you, copy the best player in your club, its a realistic goal that you can achieve, trying to emulate the best players in the world is just not a realistic propasition, there are for the most of us, players who are the stars of our regions/ countries who are full time proffesional players, yet they cannot get anywhere near the level of the best players in the world, do you not think that they might have possibly been advised by their national full time experienced coaches on the benefits, realisations and probabilities of success that they can apparently easily achieve by copying WLC and the rest of the current Chinese national team? So why does anyone on this forum think that the advice given by blahness is going to make any difference to their game? we in England send our best players to China for long periods, they do not ever come back having a WLC forhand, why does anyone think that they can employ these methods better than them? that is why I was quite precise in my response with the word 'Bullsh*t' and I whole heartedly stick by it.  When it comes to coaching, In am seriously a massive critic, there is an obvious culture within the USA of Chinese coaches being resident in clubs of a given locality. For the most part, the techniques and stratergies of these coaches is well above what the players they coach are capable of, they are there for money and money alone, and are not capable of coaching anything other than international play, which flies well above the capabilities of most of their students. So what i'm saying guys is that if you wish to get that edge, that extra bump up the ratings next year, you would be far better off following Brian Pace than a top Chinese coach. If however you are ranked 120 in the world, go for the Chinese guy every time     man there is some good stuff in that post.   a good coach knows how to point out the little things that make a big difference in power and effect of stroke production. a better coach knows how to point out little things that are truly game changing (at your level) and fundamentally improve your situational awareness and response.   p.s. thanks for the stroke recovery comment earlier via pm, when i do it, it changes *EVERYTHING*. in drilling, it increases consistency and control. in games it improves readiness and shot selection. thank you.

Well, you cannot expect to have WLQ's FH if you don't have the talent, and no, not even the most talented younger Chinese players have it, and not the England players also it seems.. He is a special player, that is why he is the player I admire the most
Back when he was on the top form of his career, nobody can contain WLQ's FH..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01yTWPVUOmk&feature=related

This clip has some great WLQ's moment

And another thing : there is no euro , or chinese style .Straight arm loop is just the forehand loop "by the book". Any old coach will teach you that. I dare to say that the speed glue era changed that into a shorter stroke.
Just look at Jonyer . What style is it ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os4Y_wadG-o

I'm only a beginner in TT but I understand momentum and the mechanics of

the human body well. For a good powerful straight-arm with a chinese rubber

 is to turn your feet and waist first (remember keep your head still and on the

 ball and knees should be bent like normal ) then cock back your swinging

arm then pull back your shoulders so your chest is popping outwards

(remember to keep your arms loose ) then starting from the feet up

everything should unwind like if you twisted a rubberband and let go. The

 momentum should make your arm come up half-way and the rest of the

 momentum should come out of your shoulders and that will forst the rest

 of your arm though and on the the ball and your wrist should snap

automatically but you can be more agrssive with the wrist if you are able

to control the ball. REMEMBER the whole time your arm should be relaxed

only your shoulders might feel the tension. THis way all the momentum is

nevered stop and also provides good power and good timing . If you

tighten your arm the momentum will stop or wont be as much and your

timing will be off and the shot will be inaccurate or as powerful.


I liked to compare this like chinese kungfu and linking momentum your body .

Think of it like this all your power comes from the ground up.


Think about punching something or someone while sitting in a wheelchair (or in outerspace to be more dramatic)

 you would barely have any power because you are only using your arm

and the mass of it your muscles will only be able to effect the speed of

 your arm. But if you punch some one stand up on a concrete floor you

would be able to utilized your body wieght and the wieght of the ground .


Like i said im only a beginner in tabletennis so this might be BS haha
but it works for me

The European FH can be just as devastating as the Chinese FH.  Both ways can work just as well and take you to a very high level.  In the end, both paths pretty much take you to the same place.  It's just which fits you more and what you use... kinda like Shakehand vs Penholds.  Some naturally would hold the blade shakehand and some naturally hold it penhold but both paths can lead you to be a very good player.

Magyar wrote: There is no such thing a Euro forehand.   There is two basic versions of the forehand topspin stroke; the chinese and the hungarian.

 

I don't understand??

icontek wrote: Magyar wrote: There is no such thing a Euro forehand.   There is two basic versions of the forehand topspin stroke; the chinese and the hungarian.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gq9ox81J_o   ??

The current Chinese topspin (as opposed to the 80's Chinese Flat Hit) is an evolution of the Hungarian Topspin that predates speed glue.

The so called "euro loop" that is still in use across the continent is a stroke that was refined by the Swedes while using tire glue.

APW46 wrote: Magyar wrote: I don't understand??  Obviously. You are a pretty flawed guy.  I think its time for the Mods to think with their heads.  Its always a give away when the posts are never longer than one or two sentences, and never with an explanation, Its what we all would do if we were pretending to be something we were not, ie, the less you say, the less you give away....

+1

super slo-mo of typical chinese forehand loop:

http://www.tt-total.tv/specials/regional-west/videos/ansicht/technikvideos-wttv/vorhand-topspin/bingqiang-chen-zl-vhgts/

Motion is completely correct.  I just don't like his extra wrist motion at the start of his swing though.  No real point to it and might throw people off when trying to learn.

racquetsforsale wrote: Has anyone seen super high speed footage (1000+ fps) confirming this technique of closing the blade during contact is even humanly possible? From a physiologic perspective, there just isn't enough time for the electrical signal registering the contact to travel from the hand to the brain and then for the brain to process it and send one back to the hand stimulating it to close the blade. The sensation of proactively closing the blade registers only long after the ball has left the blade. I believe what the Chinese coaches are describing is what it should FEEL like executing the stroke, but not what actually needs to happen or does happen between blade and ball. In other words, the sensation of closing the blade may be essential in causing the blade to move a certain way, but what actually happens is that either the blade has already begun closing from its initial 80-90 degree angle prior to contact and thus contacts the ball at a smaller angle, or the blade actually contacts  the ball while it's still angled at 80-90 degrees. Even if one were to began closing the blade before contact and continues to do so during and after contact, it's humanly impossible to execute that fast enough to have any effect on the ball. We just cannot proactively operate at such a small time scale.

Very interesting and perceptive. 

APW, i wish you could be my coach :)

ohhgourami wrote: Motion is completely correct.  I just don't like his extra wrist motion at the start of his swing though.  No real point to it and might throw people off when trying to learn.

Hi everybody,do any of you know what DVD teaches how to perform a european  forehand loop?I've been using a chinese forehand loop and would like to learn the european forehand loop,i feel that learning both of the loops can be some thing good,like combining both of them together of using them in different situations.so any help will be greatly appreciated.Thanks in advance.