cpen or shakehand

zain islam wrote: i know i already had a dicussion on this but again i could not resist playing cpen . i was playing a lot better then i was with shakehand. a lot of my friends also agreed and said i should switch.   need advice pleas help .   and remember i am playing with a shakehand blade ( schlager carbon st)

Unless you can get a coach who knows how to play Cpen, don't switch.

zain islam wrote: i know i already had a dicussion on this but again i could not resist playing cpen . i was playing a lot better then i was with shakehand. a lot of my friends also agreed and said i should switch. need advice pleas help . and remember i am playing with a shakehand blade ( schlager carbon st)

If you are the macho type of guy who likes mid-distance and long distance play, sticking with Shakehand is probably better. On the other hand if you like close table and mid-distance play Cpen may be a good option which can gear yourself up to perform the most advanced and modernized TT technique being developed by Wu Jing Ping, the Chinese National First Team TT coach of Wang Hao and Ma Lin. Wu wrote a TT book (almost like a Training Manuel) based on the Cpen solid foundation and the newly developed RPB evolution using Ma Lin and Wang Hao as guinea pigs. The end result of this new experimenting Cpen technique puts Wang Hao and Ma Lin at the top ranking all the time. In fact as of now while I am writing this thread, Wang Hao is still the number one that dominates the world of TT. Xu Xin is the next fantastic Cpen player to watch out for.

Shakehand is traditional and is still an excellent playing style for most players. But Cpen opens up a whole new dream world with a lot of potential after the introduction of RPB. Cpen requires more effort to learn and practise. With the use of fingers Cpen has more tricks to do. That is why Ma Lin has so many ghost serves and nice placements of the balls. Wang Hao's Inside Table RPB Twist is extremely spiny, powerful and offensive.

Cpen emphasizes on Hand feel (fingers feel), tricks, manipulation, placement, control, speed and spin. You can have more fun with Cpen if you are energetic, innovative and understand the Theory of Ying and Yang. Good luck.    

the only problem is that i wont be able to buy another blade for atleast another year.    shakehand st handles are pretty much like cpens right?

well there is another problem with me playing cpen. is height a key factor for cpen. i am quite tall for my age 5ft and 8 inch ( 14 yrs old) . this will probably afect my game and i have not seen any tall c pen players. i will probably be 6ft 5 inch by the time i am 19 so me bieng a tall, broad framed cpen player wont look too good. whereas there are many tall shakehand players that i can look up at like wang liqin and vladimir samsonov ( they along with wang hao and ma long are my favourites)

zain islam wrote: well there is another problem with me playing cpen. is height a key factor for cpen. i am quite tall for my age 5ft and 8 inch ( 14 yrs old) . this will probably afect my game and i have not seen any tall c pen players. i will probably be 6ft 5 inch by the time i am 19 so me bieng a tall, broad framed cpen player wont look too good. whereas there are many tall shakehand players that i can look up at like wang liqin and vladimir samsonov ( they along with wang hao and ma long are my favourites)

People say Xu Xin is like 180 cm+, climbing rankings like a rocket.

Why don't play both in the same game, penshake?

A handshake blade with handle trimmed slightly shorter and also the shoulder/handle trimmed to hold as cpen comfortably.

Or a cpen with handle extended a bit longer.

Combined with one side LP, other side reverse rubber, and fast flipping, there are lots of variations for your opponents to get adjusted to.

A BH serve with V-grip, can make the blade naturally as cpen in FH position, by moving the thumb from top to below, to hit or loop next.

This serve could be spinnier than normal handshake, as there is more wrist motion possible.

The issue is one has to master a few more styles and change from one to another in the same game or even in the same point.

If one can flip fast, it could be FH cpen LP, BH cpen, RPB, handshake BH LP, or BH reverse rubber for power/spinny loop or, FH reverse loop/smash, or FH LP, etc.

V-grip can be changed to cpen rapidly, and also from V-grip to normal handshake, and from normal handshake to cpen flipped side.

Just too many styles and variations that one have to learn to master.

I made a few of these penshake blades and played.

The shape could be Malin, could be standard handshake BTY, etc.

The handle length could be 90mm-95mm, some where between cpen 80-82mm, and handshake 100mm. It depends on individual.

The length from tip to handle edge could be 160-162mm instead of standard BTY H/S 157mm or Malin, 165mm.

Have a try and discuss.

spitfire wrote: wealthweb wrote: zain islam wrote: i know i already had a dicussion on this but again i could not resist playing cpen . i was playing a lot better then i was with shakehand. a lot of my friends also agreed and said i should switch. need advice pleas help . and remember i am playing with a shakehand blade ( schlager carbon st) If you are the macho type of guy who likes mid-distance and long distance play, sticking with Shakehand is probably better. On the other hand if you like close table and mid-distance play Cpen may be a good option which can gear yourself up to perform the most advanced and modernized TT technique being developed by Wu Jing Ping, the Chinese National First Team TT coach of Wang Hao and Ma Lin. Wu wrote a TT book (almost like a Training Manuel) based on the Cpen solid foundation and the newly developed RPB evolution using Ma Lin and Wang Hao as guinea pigs. The end result of this new experimenting Cpen technique puts Wang Hao and Ma Lin at the top ranking all the time. In fact as of now while I am writing this thread, Wang Hao is still the number one that dominates the world of TT. Xu Xin is the next fantastic Cpen player to watch out for. Shakehand is traditional and is still an excellent playing style for most players. But Cpen opens up a whole new dream world with a lot of potential after the introduction of RPB. Cpen requires more effort to learn and practise. With the use of fingers Cpen has more tricks to do. That is why Ma Lin has so many ghost serves and nice placements of the balls. Wang Hao's Inside Table RPB Twist is extremely spiny, powerful and offensive. Cpen emphasizes on Hand feel (fingers feel), tricks, manipulation, placement, control, speed and spin. You can have more fun with Cpen if you are energetic, innovative and understand the Theory of Ying and Yang. Good luck.     what is the name of the book you mentioned?

The name of the book is " Ping Pong Ball - Penhold Blade Inverted Rubber Playing Method Training ", written by Wu Jing Ping, and published by People Sports Publishing Society. To my best knowledge the book is written in Chinese and is only available in China at this time.

Correct and thanks for your positive input.

Wrist is very important in working with Cpen. When the wrist combines with the fingers the Cpen player can create all kind of killing serves that can help him win points right after the serve. LQL, the Head Coach of the Chinese National First Team is one of the best servers recognized in the history of TT and he is a Cpen player.

Do we remember when we were small kids that started learning TT without knowing too much of the fundamental technique, we have to rely on our own innovative serves to win the game points quickly against our opponents?

An extremely good serve is a very very important skill that every professional TT player should master if he wants to stay on the top. In that regards a Cpen player can do a better job than a Shakehand player in my opinion.

About two years ago I went to China for a small trip. My good friend took me to the largest TT club in Chung Zhen City where the mayor, city officials and many other local top players like to hang around and play. The Manager who claimed that he used to train LQL at one time is now retired and has run this TT club since then.

In order to find out how good I was in TT as a visitor from Canada he wanted to serve the ball five times for me to return. In other words I was given 5 chances to return his serve properly. According to the rules set by the Manager if I only touch the ball during any of those five serves, never mind about returning the ball back to his side of the table, I win.

I was naive and full of confidence that no way I would miss any of those balls coming towards me. Then, it was beyond my own belief that I had missed touching any of those balls served by this guy one by one. The ball flied past me so fast that before I started to move my legs or hands, the ball simply disappeared and flied out of the zone within which I thought I could catch or touch the ball. I failed miserably 5 times and was so ashamed of myself.

My Chinese friends couldn't hold their breath but kept laughing at me for being so humiliated by the Master Server. The Manager was a Cpen player who had just showed me what a true Devil Serve was all about.

Thylacine wrote: Go jpen with rpb. More comfortable and stable grip than any cpen.

An excellent idea. That is what I do now.

Very powerful Forehand Drive Loop and RPB Drive Loop specially with the elongated square headed Jpen blade which can bring out the reputable unique springy effect of Kiso Hinoki.

What a life time thrilling experience! And it is hard to describe unless someone goes through it himself.

can anyone explain to me how i can put a rubber on  the backside of a jpen blade. i heard that most jpen blades have cork at the backside. if you could make a video or explain with detail then surely i will buy a jpen blade and play rpb even if i cant find a cpen coach. also please tell me about any jpen blades that do not have a semi circular cork finish on the backside and instead have a straight cork finish. thanks!!!!!!!!!!

Ranger-man wrote: I agree with Anton, you cannot hope to progress in Cpen with a shake blade. Thats how I started since it is difficult to get a Cpen blade here, but as my game progressed I changed to a Cpen blade that I had to order from overseas. I can feel the difference in the grip when I now hold a shake blade with the Cpen grip, and it is a very different feel. I play close to the table, max going back to mid-distance and I prefer to not leave the table.I have never played Jpen so cannot comment on that, but this I do know, Jpen is for you if you are very very forehand dominated, if not, stay with Cpen and improve your RPB.

Agreed. KTS and RSM are currently the most famous Jpen players and they are very forehand dominated.

Basically Jpen is designed to attack for very aggressive and offensive players. If someone is young, skillful, energetic with very fast footwork like RSM he can take full advantage of the Jpen design. If a Jpen player is playing defensive like a pussy cat he will lose the game very quickly. It is better off to borrow a good Jpen blade from a friend and try it out first before making a decision to switch to Jpen.

 There are jpens with a straight cut cork sheet on the back. For example Nittaku Feminist R/P.