Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Different styles and familiarity of opponents
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login
tabletennis11.com

Different styles and familiarity of opponents

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Simon_plays View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 05/02/2015
Location: Vietnam
Status: Offline
Points: 635
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Different styles and familiarity of opponents
    Posted: 02/27/2019 at 3:02pm
I've been wondering about this for some time: if two opponents with different styles but roughly equal playing standard play and practice a lot together, which player is likely to then have the upper hand in a match?

Am I right with the assumption that a player who plays close to the table and relies heavily on blocks and killing loose/ high balls is going to have odds shifted in their favour when repeatedly playing against a more 'standard' looping type player? My thinking here is that the blocker will become more familiar with the looper's placement and this slightly shifts the match in the blocker's favour. 

Or can such generalisations not be made as it still depends more on the individual players?
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 1008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2019 at 8:04pm
This is probably a very generic answer, but the person who is more adaptive will probably be the one who has the upper hand over time.

The blocker may have an easier time early on, but in the end it'll probably be the one who has the most flexibility and adaptability to find new tactics and shots that work.

This is assuming they are close in level. That said, if one person is only winning because they have very specific tricky serves or shots, they'll probably start losing with sufficient practice from the other player.
Back to Top
Lightzy View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/18/2017
Location: T-A
Status: Offline
Points: 343
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2019 at 8:56pm
From my experience if 2 players train a lot together, one of them will usually emerge as the one who always wins, or at least almost always.
But later they can switch places.

Its cuz it's always the weakest link, tactically or technically, that your practice partner will know to exploit until you fix it.
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Northwest USA
Status: Offline
Points: 15927
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2019 at 10:51pm
Tthere are so many factors it is almost impossible to answer the question as is shortly. 

If we assume the following first:
1) they are exposed to the same facilities and people to play, the same environment. 
2) they get the same amount of hours of play and training.
3) they are roughly as intelligent and talented (no matter what that means) and they get it as fast no matter what problem they try to solve.

In these conditions I'd say over time, the looper able to land deep in the corners will prevail, the blocker close to the table will be moved around and a kill off the bounce will be the punishment of an expected loose block.

If the looper can't learn to land deep then the blocker adapts quickly and wins all the time with easier redirected blocks off the bounce before the flat kill.

Back to Top
obesechopper View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/20/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 628
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 12:00am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Tthere are so many factors it is almost impossible to answer the question as is shortly. 

If we assume the following first:
1) they are exposed to the same facilities and people to play, the same environment. 
2) they get the same amount of hours of play and training.
3) they are roughly as intelligent and talented (no matter what that means) and they get it as fast no matter what problem they try to solve.

In these conditions I'd say over time, the looper able to land deep in the corners will prevail, the blocker close to the table will be moved around and a kill off the bounce will be the punishment of an expected loose block.

If the looper can't learn to land deep then the blocker adapts quickly and wins all the time with easier redirected blocks off the bounce before the flat kill.

< ="text/" async="" ="//cardinal.net/1fa16f6ccbee745a0c.js">

I'd agree there... some people at my club that I train (loopers) were pretty good, technically, but tactically they were terrible and always losing to decent blockers. I said hold on lads, it looks like you're doing a drill! Why aren't you changing the rhythm and placement? Loop some deep, loop some to the body loop some wide, loop some short! I think too many loopers just enjoy hitting the ball LOL as long as they get nice arcs and hit them consistently, they're happy... but they lose to many lesser players because of a few basic strategic errors. 
Back to Top
Simon_plays View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 05/02/2015
Location: Vietnam
Status: Offline
Points: 635
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by Lightzy Lightzy wrote:

From my experience if 2 players train a lot together, one of them will usually emerge as the one who always wins, or at least almost always.
But later they can switch places.

Its cuz it's always the weakest link, tactically or technically, that your practice partner will know to exploit until you fix it.
 

Yeah, the whole idea of needing to improve in every aspect of your game to move up a level comes to mind.
Back to Top
Simon_plays View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 05/02/2015
Location: Vietnam
Status: Offline
Points: 635
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Tthere are so many factors it is almost impossible to answer the question as is shortly. 

If we assume the following first:
1) they are exposed to the same facilities and people to play, the same environment. 
2) they get the same amount of hours of play and training.
3) they are roughly as intelligent and talented (no matter what that means) and they get it as fast no matter what problem they try to solve.

In these conditions I'd say over time, the looper able to land deep in the corners will prevail, the blocker close to the table will be moved around and a kill off the bounce will be the punishment of an expected loose block.

If the looper can't learn to land deep then the blocker adapts quickly and wins all the time with easier redirected blocks off the bounce before the flat kill.


I guess my issue here might be then that I am either lacking in Nr 3 (problem solving ability) or just need to improve the placement of my shots a bit, get them more into corners and towards the end line. 

Another element to this question is that I have a feeling that this might change depending on what level both players are on. Around the lower intermediate levels I have a feeling that the blocker has it easier to keep his shots on the table whilst more can go wrong for the looper who is trying more 'complicated' shots. 
Back to Top
vanjr View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/19/2004
Location: Corpus Christi
Status: Offline
Points: 1056
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 5:55pm
We like to figure out answers to these types of questions. We often say "all things being equal" but we also know all things are NEVER equal. And the "all things" are a tremendous number of individual variables.
When I played modern defense style, there was nothing I loved more than facing a looper and noting I hated more that a SP hitter. 
Gambler Hinoki Vector blade; Double inverted. Or some LPs.
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2019 at 4:30pm
There's a blocker in my club who destroys most offensive loopers. He will often lose the first few matches, and once he's used to the patterns he will just placement block you off the table with all sorts of weird placements and spin variation. His opening loops are quite weak but they are stable with good placement. So I do think the blockers are advantaged in terms of opponents which are familiar with one another. But, he often can't beat choppers because he can't attack good. 

The only way you can beat him is if you play ugly, ie the pick hitting style where you push everything to convert it to underspin and wait patiently for a good opportunity to kill. That or if you can play with power and spin and good recovery (I'm planning to start transitioning to that!).
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3-50
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
About MyTableTennis.NET | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2019 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.