ERKE GERMAN OPEN 2008

Cyrilix wrote: I, for one, would like to see some real evidence and clarification from either side. It seems like that's seriously missing (or we just don't know about it) in this matter. This wouldn't be so controversial if it weren't for the fact that Boll lost, and now he gets a free ride. Also, I'm not sure if the ittf linked news article is any proof. It doesn't seem to be written in a very clear and serious manner. Rather, it seems to be written like any blog would be written (as with most ittf articles), with claims but no substance.

There is only one side, the officials' side.
Should the guy who used an illegal racket advance? Should no one advance?
Then what is controversial?

So far he only got $5,000... if he wins the title he'll get $20,000.

Here is something official:

"Regarding the �CRISAN case� referees board gives the information: "Adrian CRISAN did use a different racket for his individual match (22.11.08, 11.30) than the one officially tested according to the procedures for racket control. Therefore a racket control after the match has been requested. The result of the racket control after the match has shown, that the thickness of both sides (red and black) is more than 4 mm. As prescribed in the general information, Adrian CRISAN has been disqualified for the individual tournament.""


http://www.ettu.org/news_view.php?id=943

Mark 5 wrote: Well, the Info of the values came only from crs2. Very vague infos i think!

Even if the information came from crisan and his manager (what i have to question), it is not really a neutral information.

amateur wrote: @crs2: Could you be a bit more precise in relaying what you have heard? Please answer these questions: - Crisan's personal racket first failed the pre-match test, right or wrong? I don't know. - Crisan submitted Cioti's racket as his second racket in the pre-match test, right or wrong?   Yes. After that, 2 hrs before the match he gave the referees HIS OWN raquet for testing and it came back OK, 3.88mm. - Was the 3.88mm the result of a second test done after Crisan reglued the rubbers on his personal racket? (That seems to be what he's saying on the Donic website.)   Yes. That is correct, this test was done also before the start of the match. - How much time elapsed between the test and the match (you wrote "2 hours" but that seems way too long), and where was Crisan's personal racket during this time?   Crisan gave the referees his raquet for testing at 9 AM, the match started at 11:30. He got back his raquet at the table. - When was Boll's racket tested as 4.02mm: before or after the match? I don't know, it could have been tested after, toghether with Crisan's. - Why is it "not likely" that Crisan told people (including Boll perhaps) that he would refuse to play if his personal racket is not approved? Carneros did the same thing yesterday, defaulting the match when he had to go to a backup paddle. Crisan basically did the same at the US Open.   Crisan has said that he won't play the match with Cioti's raquet. He would have played one point and then gave up the match. But that wasn't the case since his raquet was OK. This is what Boll heard and assumed that Crisan was going to use an illegal raquet. There may have been some confusion among the umpires about which racket had passed the pre-match test, and when they noticed this they went ahead with the post-match test to make sure the racket actually used in the match was legal.   I don't know. Usually, after the first test the raquet is marked but I don't know if Crisan's was. That is how the testers ensure the players don't change raquets.

crs2 wrote: elcapitan_thfc wrote:   I for one would believe the official statements who for the record are impartial (It is a pro tour event - so they are not German they must be of impartial nationality and the tournament is run by the ITTF), rather than the biased account of the 'guilty' party.   If Crisan thought their decision was unfair or that Boll's racket was also illegal we would hear a lot more about it.........   Not as impartial as you would think. But it is easier to accept whatever officials feed you than trying to find out what happened.  Maybe we will hear something about this.

elcapitan_thfc wrote: crs2 wrote: elcapitan_thfc wrote:   I for one would believe the official statements who for the record are impartial (It is a pro tour event - so they are not German they must be of impartial nationality and the tournament is run by the ITTF), rather than the biased account of the 'guilty' party.   If Crisan thought their decision was unfair or that Boll's racket was also illegal we would hear a lot more about it.........   Not as impartial as you would think. But it is easier to accept whatever officials feed you than trying to find out what happened.  Maybe we will hear something about this.   Still 10 times more impartial than Crisan :) There is no way he is going to come out and say "Yes I cheated". So for now the official report is exactly that - an official report.   I hope all sides involved produce statements and we find out the reaL truth of the matter as this is a massive issue following the glue bans of September!

Cyrilix wrote:

What I'm saying is, we have to be very clear on what has happened, and I think spectators deserve to know. At least, there should be an official statement somewhere, since this is no small thing. If the official statement exists, and this matter has been well looked into, and we have a definite answer (which all of this confusion is not leading me to believing <-- key point), then the decision is clear:-if the circumstances were indeed Crisan's fault, then Boll advances-if not, Crisan advancesSo, given all of this, could we please get the official word? (hah, like any official would bother to read this forum)Also, what is controversial is...-we're deciding which one of the two gets through, if the loser used an illegal racket, no one would care-it's Boll we're talking about, whether or not he gets past will have a significant effect on the final outcome of the German Open[/QUOTE]

It is official, the matter is as well looked into as is required for a decision to be made by tournament officials, it's Crisan's fault and Boll advances. Only the officials need to be very clear about what has happened

As far as the people involved go, the only controversy is that players are still using illegal rackets or the officials are incompetent, either way Boll advances. The tournament outcome is thus affected, Crisan has no chance to win, Boll does.

Nothing said on this forum bears any weight, the course has been set. The official word will come in due time, no amount of speculation on some forum will alter that.
The only thing that could be considered controversial on the forum is that people are speculating about what may have happened, without really knowing. Nothing really controversial there, it is what many people like to do.

sprite wrote: It is official, the matter is as well looked into as is required for a decision to be made by tournament officials, it's Crisan's fault and Boll advances. Only the officials need to be very clear about what has happened

Practically, I'll have to agree with that.

As far as the people involved go, the only controversy is that players are still using illegal rackets or the officials are incompetent, either way Boll advances. The tournament outcome is thus affected, Crisan has no chance to win, Boll does. Nothing said on this forum bears any weight, the course has been set. The official word will come in due time, no amount of speculation on some forum will alter that. The only thing that could be considered controversial on the forum is that people are speculating about what may have happened, without really knowing. Nothing really controversial there, it is what many people like to do.

I don't know why you choose to keep on arguing semantics with me. Controversy is proportional to the amount of discussion generated. As such, there is forum controversy. It does not have to be a global crisis. Also, what I mean is, if it were two not well known players in the round of 64, people probably wouldn't give two sh*ts. Sure, there is the controversy of illegal rackets, but this only becomes a controversial issue when compounded with other things. Think about it... who do you think hears of that when player A at local league is disqualified after playing player B? Regardless of what you consider a controversy, this thread is the proof.

There is a new article explaining that there was a "misunderstanding" between Crisan and the umpires before the match:
http://www.tischtennis.de/aktuelles/details.php?id=8105

It goes like this:
- 30 minutes before the match, Crisan and Boll had their paddles tested by the ITTF racket control (a Japanese official)
- Crisan's paddle failed the thickness test (more than 4mm on both sides); he didn't have a backup and submitted Cioti's instead
- Cioti's paddle passed the test and was cleared for the match
- Crisan and his coach hinted that he would rather default the match than play with Cioti's paddle (which has different rubbers and blade)
- here comes the "misunderstanding": before the match Crisan was handed his own paddle (and not Cioti's) and told that it was ok for the match after all; but this should actually have applied to Cioti's paddle; Crisan took his own paddle and returned Cioti's
- at the same time the umpires indicated that there would be an official post-match test.

Note that this is not an official statement but the reconstruction by the press people from the German federation (not totally impartial, that is). They caution that it may be impossible to understand exactly the course of events that led to this "misunderstanding"... In any case, it does seem that the racket controllers/umpires are also to blame and that maybe Crisan wasn't knowingly "cheating" by surreptitiously using an illegal paddle. On the other hand, the fact remains that the racket he played with failed the post-match test, which in the end is the only thing that really matters (especially since Crisan had no backup to play with anyway).

Anything new on the Romanian forum today? (I mean facts or statements, not conspiracy theories...)

Cyrilix wrote: I don't know why you choose to keep on arguing semantics with me. Controversy is proportional to the amount of discussion generated. As such, there is forum controversy.

Boll "won" it but in my opinion lost..

germany and the judge/officials must be made to pay for this unforgivable act. this is a devious act of injustice and must not go unpunished.

two, germany must be made to pay at least ten times the value of the prize money money for the competition. a ban on all german made tt equipment will be a first start in addition to future german open tt competition.