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EE2 help needed!!! |
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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Posted: 03/17/2007 at 11:57pm |
I am treating two sheets of banda rossa soft with EE2, wanted to appeal to those with experience with this mysterious substance.
Banda Rossa Soft is a 35 degree sponge - I read the instructions and it calls for an initial "complete coat" of the rubber. Not sure what that means - there are some pics around of H2 being treated, and the whole sponge surface of the rubber is SLICK with the stuff. H2 sponge is harder and I'm trying to err on the side of caution; I don't want to turn these rubbers into rockets ; just make them playable (these soft sponge rubbers aren't really usable unglued IMHO). But I don't want to underdo it to the extend that the EE2 doesn't work... is there some minimum amount needed to get things moving? These softer sponges aren't very playable without glue, and EE2 doesn't really soften the sponge, so... hoping its a good combination. When I applied I was being more conservative so I brushed it on evenly but much less than in those pics, like covering the sponge with a layer of regular glue. It was absorbed quickly, honestly I just dipped twice into the container and spread it on and around, and was able to _cover_ (not coat) the whole sponge. 6 hours later it seems to be completely absorbed, well actually there is a very small amount still on the surface it would appear... I guess I will repeat these small cycles of coating + let to dry and wait until it domes - unless someone has any more experience with EE2 + soft sponge? The doming is a sign that its Verking , but is there some way to interpret the degree of doming as a stopping point? Really appreciate any advice you guys have. |
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WLiqin
Super Member Joined: 01/13/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 166 |
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Hi there, ive just recently decided to use EE2 and the process of
applying and fixing onto the blade is gonna take roughly a week total,
you must be very patient when using EE2. Cover the sponge so that there
is an EVEN coat and u might wanna use a little more than what u did. I
applied only 2 layers of EE2 on a sriver fx 1.9 and boy did it dome!
You might want to wait for more than 6 hours to let it dry, maybe a
day, only then will u might see it dome. But the gluing process takes
very long and u must be patient, even after u glue it on some parts of
the rubber will curl back up and u must add more glue. But just
remember to be PATIENT, that is the key and in the end i got a sriver
fx that played faster and spinnier than before, i just need to adjust
to it now =/ hope that helps.
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Clipper Wood
H2 2.2 Refoma 2.0 back to EE2... |
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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You are my hero WLiqin - I will let this dry a full 24 hours, and put more in the next round to even out the effect - saturating the sponge to the point where it stops absorbing is probably a way to ensure it is equally treated. Once it domed, did the effect feel right to you - would you rate it low, medium, or high at that point?
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Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Hi Chronos,
I put a heavy layer on a sheet of Joola Energy Max that had a slight negitive dome when I started. Six hours later I wiped it off well and let it dry for 18 hours. Now it had a slight positive dome. Another layer for six hours and wiped it off. Now it had about a 1/2" dome. Let it dry for 18 hours. When I put regular glue on, it domed right away to about 1". Somehow this stuff seems to make the rubber more reactive to regular glue. (Stiga Victory) Found out you will need Two heavy coats of glue to get it to stay put. It has had the similar effect for other rubbers also. Nimbus, Nano Cannon,,, Played with it right away and it was alot faster and spinnier but the next day it had setteled down some. It clicks like crazy now! Still better than the original. Been two weeks now and it seems to be holding there. My friends Nimbus did similar things. I don't usually use the same sheet for more than 5 or 6 weeks but I will leave this one on to see if there are any problems like sponge and rubber seperation or effects going away. Two weeks later it still clicks loud! |
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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Guys thanks so much for the detailed instructions, this makes perfect sense.
I will give this little coat 24 hours to fully settle in*, then apply a generous helping and wipe off 6 hours later as you describe Hookshot. At that point, I might just call it a done deal, I don't want to overdo it!!! Or at most, a little more... BOOM * (hoping the second proper coat will normalize this one, as I think coating to a level of sheen is neccessary to ensure equal treatment to all areas of the sponge...) |
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WLiqin
Super Member Joined: 01/13/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 166 |
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the thing is that EE2 works well with rubbers that are soft and the
effect is greater. I used it on a Skyline 3 and the speed has increased
along with spin but not as much comapred to the sriver fx, so im sure
soft rubbers react better to the EE2. Just make sure u give it enough
time to get good adhesion to ur blade after u glue it and clamp it
well.
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Clipper Wood
H2 2.2 Refoma 2.0 back to EE2... |
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GenomicsKnight
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1962 |
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Softer sponge will take more coats to dome like this. They are SkylineII, 729 Lightening and 729 Faster on ESN, from left to right. They had 3, 5, 3 coasts of EE2, respectively. They key is to let them dry on their own.
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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oh ho ho... what does that translate to when you play with them, looks like mega-speed!! How does THAT compare to proper speed-gluing in your experience???
Thanks for all the replies guys |
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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729 lightening?!? aka $5 rubber from zeropong?! And how does that feel after a generous treatment with the EE2?? Sorry for all the questions but this is fascinating, please share the fruits of your research!
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Visse
Beginner Joined: 07/28/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 50 |
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Chronos, You should try Juic Pure Effect or Tibhar Rapid clean deluxe. They are both long life speed glue and effects are superb. Also, it takes less than hour for them to dry on the rubber. On the blade use only regular glue like Butterfly basic chack.
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Visse SS blade
Donic Quattro formula http://castldine.tripod.com/table_tennis |
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GenomicsKnight
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1962 |
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So I have played with the following rubbers that are EE2 treated.
DHS Skyline III 729 FX EL Supersoft 729 Lightening LKT XT Yasaka New Era (PALIO ones, various versions) I initially used Lightening to experiment because they are cheap. It turns out that this rubber reacts very well to EE2 and plays well too, giving good amount of spin with higher throw angle. EE2 wouldn't give you the exact same effect as the fresh glue job, but it comes close enough at least for me. One thing I noticed is the effect of EE2 on used rubbers is not as good as on the new ones. I'd recommend applying EE2 to new rubbers only. It takes a lot of patience to use EE2 properly. Usually the 1st coat can be thick. Any follow-up coats should be thinner so the EE2 liquid won't run off the sponge and the whole thing can become very messy. Particularly if the rubber already started to dome, don't put too thick of a coat. Lately I have put two rubbers back to back (ie, sponge against sponge), this way any subsequent EE2 applications will stay put, instead of running off. Use a heavy object and press them together. I never wipe off the residues and always let them dry naturally. It normally takes 3 weeks or so. |
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agooding2
Super Member Joined: 08/21/2006 Status: Offline Points: 243 |
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I've used EE2 on Joola Samba, Yasaka Fusion, Donic Supersonic/Tibhar Makss/Joola Terminator, Dawei Inspirit, Globe 999T, Globe 889-2, Friendship 802-40, Dawei 388B for the past year or so.
Generally I've found that the thicker the sponge, the more coats you need. All of these sponges are soft, not sure how harder sponges will react to it. With 2.6 sponges 3 coats spaced 24 hours, 12 hours, 6 hours seems to work pretty well, while with 2.0 sponge I found that was too much for me, but another player who plays with F3 liked it. With 1.8 soft sponge 1 or 2 coats seems to be enough to get a good dome. I haven't seen any problems from leaving it on longer than I've said. The only reall probelm I've noticed is that with some Chinese rubbers, it can cause the topsheet to delmainate from the sponge if there isn't a good bond between them. So I try to be careful not to coat the edges of the uncut rubber sheet in those cases. -- Andrew |
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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Guys thanks so much for the info. I just gave the rubbers a generous coating, creating a sheen across the whole surface of the rubber. One hour later they DRANK the stuff, these sponges are thirsty! I'd estimate being at 1.3 coats now, if that initial coat even counts - I will see how the sponge reacts over the next 24 hours and report.
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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Sorry all my peoplez, I'm a little stressed over this - even with an even application, some of the EE2 didn't completely soak in evenly across the wole sponge. In a few spots, it collected on the surface of the sponge in a little line of droplets, and there I can see the surface of the sponge is more puffed than the surrounding areas. Is this normal + does it go away (normalize) over time? I wiped off the excess on that puffier area - note this happened within an hour of application. Please let me know if you've observed similar stuff happening. Thanks for all the helpful comments.
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GenomicsKnight
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1962 |
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That happened to me too. Don't worry about it. If that bothers you, you can apply another thin layer and that should puff up the rest. The EE2 liquid will flow around the surface of the sponge as the the rubber start to curl up. Sometimes the liquid will collect or settle on a tiny area, making it expand more than its surroundings. The key is to keep the rubber flat and leveled so the sponge can absorb EE2 evenly. |
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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Thanks GenomicsKnight - this is a relief.
I'm treating used rubbers and learned a lesson - EE2 turns even a light layer of glue into a sticky, gooey blob from hell!!! I should have cleaned these rubbers more carefully before I started. On the upside, EE2 softens up the rubber so you can rub it off, but it's messy work. The rubbers have domed 1 cm or so from this treatment which I think was partially neutralized by the leftover glue. Over on one corner the EE2 made the topsheet swell up but I seem to remember somebody saying this would go down, in any case it won't affect play. Treating used rubbers is more complicated as you can see!! |
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GenomicsKnight
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1962 |
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Experimenting EE2 on used rubbers is a good way to start. I noticed
EE2 turns the glue residues into gooey stuff too. I'd image it has
some kind of solvents in it. However, if that's the case, I find these
pictures disturbing
That's EE1 which they claim it's safe to ingest. |
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WLiqin
Super Member Joined: 01/13/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 166 |
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im pretty sure they have reasons why it is safe to ingest , and i heard
in this forum that EE1 is just some sort of fruit extract oil.
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Clipper Wood
H2 2.2 Refoma 2.0 back to EE2... |
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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used to simulate speed glue effect in rubbers / cocktail mix!!!
Ecolo and tonic please |
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GenomicsKnight
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1962 |
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Good call!
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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a safe alternative to drinking speed glue before the match. or perhaps we are starting to glimpse their true plan to make up for lost profits from speed glue ban; open bar at the tournaments.
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GenomicsKnight
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1962 |
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They will always come up with something new (flops or not) to drain our wallets. Have you tried EE1 before?
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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I am just testing now with EE2 - it seems like EE1 is messier and takes longer to dry. I know some people who treat their sponges with BABY OIL and heard a rumor that EE2 is the same. Baby oil gives decent results. I might stock up on EE1 now that it's on sale and use it for mixed drinks.
The banda rossas have puffed up / formed domes - these rubbers are cut and now puff about 1.5 cm with all edges still touching the ground. Should I stop? I want to give these softer sponge rubbers some zip but not turn them into rockets. More spin and just a decent speed with harder hitting is my ideal. |
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GenomicsKnight
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1962 |
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1.5 cm on your Banda seems a pretty decent dome/expansion. It also dependes on the hardness of the topsheet. If it has a softer type of topsheet, then the dome/EE2 effect is much bigger that what it appears.
Have you personally try the baby oil on the sponge? I have the same thought of getting EE1 and mixing it with EE2 since it's on sale in PaddlePalace. |
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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Oops I'm sorry, baby oil same as __EE1__ !!! EE2 seems to be a more complex beast.
That banda rossa soft sheet is quite thin... muhhahah I'm a little scared, no more coatz, another day to dry to be on the safe side, then I will attempt to glue! I've seen the effects of baby oil firsthand, but not tried it myself. I compared some focus 1 with a guy at the club. He treated his sheets with baby oil and the sponge expanded, but did not soften. In contrast I put 6 coats of regular glue on, which softened the sponge more, but expanded it less. He said the drying process took weeks... I think the expansion gives the sheet a tensioned quality just as with the EEs. EE2 seems to be designed at the minimum to achieve the same effect with less hassle, but based on some comments above, might change the behavior of the sponge beyond simple expansion, giving it more elasticity and causing some kind of response to regular glue - anyone with thoughts? |
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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BTW thanks for all the help guys. Even with general blundering I seem to have successfully treated these rubbers and the forum was a good sink for anxieties. Please report on all future EE2 research in this forum and I will do the same.
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phamster
Member Joined: 04/11/2007 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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hey fellas...
i just ordered some of the EE2 stuff and speedy spin premium rubber from PP... i think this is going to be super exciting, the rubber is going to click like a made clicker !!!!.. awesome.. i will take my time and do it right.. i have a hand made racket press too.. so after the 3 days of drying.. i will glue the rubber and press it out for about another day.. so it should be a nice project for me next week !!! phamster |
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tt12
Beginner Joined: 07/02/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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Hi guys, where do you get Juic Ecolo Expander. I 'm from Canada, is there any problem for shipping, I really like to try it, thanks in advance.
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loopdaddy
Beginner Joined: 03/01/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 87 |
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Just order it from PP. They ship to Canada no problem. I just got some a few days ago so it's interesting to read the comments on others experiences. I'm also finding patience to be a virtue when it comes to dealing with EE2. I just put the third coat on a Sriver EL and a H2. The first coat was very thin and was soaked up instantly. The second and third coats were a little thicker and I'm starting to get a good dome effect now. It's looking good, but it takes time. I was hoping it would be ready for thursday evening at the club, but it looks like it may take a few more days yet before it's dry enough to glue down.
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More spin less talk.
******************** *Galaxy W1 *H2 *Sriver EL |
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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The Banda Rossa soft + Inspirit 35 degree 2.0 responded WONDERFULLY to EE2 - those make an ominous CHOCK sound now when serving, are super spinny, the banda rossa is much livelier (inspirit is great either way), and aren't giving me any problems control wise. Glueing EE2 treated rubbers is a nightmare - be warned - I tried with Aqua Stick and it utterly failed to keep the rubber on even after days of pressing. It just peels itself off at the edges. You'll need regular glue to affix this.
The key to a pain-free EE2 experience: 1: use new rubber. Old glue creates a gooey horror; I'm still finding evidence of the aftermath around the apartment. Old cut rubbers are more likely to get affected on the topsheet around the edges - its almost impossible to keep it off the edge as it drips off the side and touches the topsheet no matter what you try to do. New rubber on the other hand drinks the stuff up cleanly, expands consistently, and is easier to attach since you can glue generously all the way over the edge. 2: Any excess will dry completely given enough time - when in doubt, give the sponge an extra day to dry up before applying a new coat or glueing. 3: Don't panic - the stuff works as they say even if you make the same mistakes I did - too thin a coating, glue residue, etc. Any inconsistent expansion (not an issue on new rubber) evens out - any damage to topsheet goes away after a bit of time. In short, the process is consistent with just a little care. 4: do not aim paddle at children - make sure opponent wears eye protection. |
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