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Why some people prefer heavier blades?

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O! Ju Qian View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06/12/2007 at 2:25am
I prefer blades about 87g or somewhere around 90 and above. I was wondering why most people prefer lighter blades, so i decided to try someone else's light setup. It felt good after a few shots, but then I started screwing up. I understand that you have to at least experiment something for a few days before you can see the advantage of lighter blades, but then again, I am afraid of change. I don't want to say that I am used to playing heavier blades, but I think I am beginning to understand why I would in the end be playing with heavier setup even after trying out a lighter combo. I get more control and power with heavier blades because I feel comfortable "gripping" them. Maybe each person has a different grip tendency, but if you want to become an offensive player that relies on power, then you really need to get used to gripping heavier blades. I believe that you will tend to loose control with lighter blades, especially for hard/wide swingers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 2:29am
In my case, I have no option. If I use a heavier blade, my arm will develop some pain, so to be on the safe side, I stay with lighter blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silvalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 2:31am
When I played shakehand, I preferred light blades because it was easier/faster to grip change & switch between fh/bh.

Also, I think you have it backwards. You will tend to lose control with lighter blades for hard/wide swingers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O! Ju Qian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 2:37am
I do not really agree with that. You can also loose control with lighter blades if you are fast offensive player. W/o some weight, your strokes will loose control.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silvalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 2:48am
The balance of the blade is far more important than the overall mass either way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O! Ju Qian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 3:07am
i understand that, but it appears that not everybody perceive the same balance. I think my grip will find lighter blades too light, while heavier blades would be a balanced blade for me. I think it's weird to say that I play with heavier blades, but more like other people would find my setup too heavy for their taste.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reachie85 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 3:22am
i have both heavy and light blades, but i think i'm gonna start sticking to the heavy blade, i do feel some advantages of lighter blades as they are easier and quicker to maneuver around, especially when it comes to reaction shots when you are in a defensive position.  but for me, i have a bad habit of hitting the ball too early (trying to correct that) especially on offense.  i feel that i can generate the most speed and spin after the ball has reached its highest point and on the way down during the trajectory, but most of the times i hit really close to the highest point.  so having a heavier blade kinda gives me a lil bit of lag time that i feel i'm putting more power into the ball.  also i like the way how the contact between the ball and the racket feels on a heavier blade, it almost feels like you are trying to destroy the ball on offense.
(my setup's heavier than my friend's sh of sardius with mark v and sriver)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 3:26am
i have a heavy set up, lkt with glue + mendo mp and tube alu wrb.. heavy blades tend to be more stable in blocking and eventhough heavy blades cannot be swung as fast as lighter blades, the weight affects the momentum when swinging  which results to increase in power on your drives.. wang liqin's set up is heavy but because he is a muscled guy the weight of his set up doesn't affect his speed, giving him extra power due to the weight of his set up and his muscles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O! Ju Qian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 3:46am
That's the problem with lighter setup. You will get the feeling that you are hitting the ball too early, especially when you are trying to finish the point. That's why you can loose control with lighter blades in terms of stroke speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alphapong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 3:47am

"I was wondering why most people prefer lighter blades"

 

Because they have been told lighter is better. When newbies are shopping for a blade, if they request for anything at all in their specifications; 9 times out of 10 the request is for a light blade.

 

Their are two ways to produce additional power in a blade. Additional mass or make the blade harder, stiffer and springier.  Additional mass can produce more power without a significant reduction in control, since the blade can still have the same flex, softness and dwell time. Other means of producing more power such as making it harder and stiffer have a corresponding reduction in control.

 

Lets have a look at some of the tried and true favorite controlled attack / looping blades. � Stiga O.C. � Heavy with medium flex and softness, Petr Korbel � Heavy with medium flex and softness, Yasaka Extra � used to be Heavy with medium flex and softness, before they ruined it. Donic powerplay -  Heavy with medium flex and softness

 

Of course the very heavy Petr Korbel is so popular that Butterfly can not even keep them in stock. ( I have been back ordered for over a month) Recently a Junior told me he was looking for a new blade. I asked him what he was now using and he responded  �Well, I really love my Petr Korbel, BUT it is heavy� I responded, �No, You really love your Petr Korbel BECAUSE its heavy.�

 

So what are the manufacturers to do? They have trained the public to believe that lighter is better, yet most light blades suck. Here is where the magic of handle technology comes in! The manufacturer takes a nice heavy softer blade with good flex and then removes 5 to 10 grams from the handle. The balance now sucks, but they have taken a nice 95 gram blade and now made it acceptable to the general public since it is now only 85 grams.  Although the balance is head heavy, it is still better than a stiff hard blade of the same weight. Really the consumer is just buying a 95 gram blade with some weight scooped out of the handle and bad balance, but in their head it is a 85 gram blade and thus the manufacturer can produce a blade with reasonable performance that can be accepted by the masses.

 

The whole light blade thing is actually a pet peeve of mine since I have seen many nice blades changed or discontinued since the public has lost here appetite for anything over 85 grams. Recently one of my vendors told me that they would not be getting anymore of their best controlled looping blade, since it weighed around 90 grams and people thought that was too heavy. Another time a 2500 player broke his blade which he had had for many years. I gave him a new one and was promptly told that the new one sucked. A little investigation revealed that his old blade was 98 grams. The new one was 82 grams. Apparently the manufacturer succumbed to market pressure and reduced the weight of the blade by over 15 grams ruining it. Fortunately he found a vendor that had some very old inventory and still had the original heavy model.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O! Ju Qian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 3:48am
I could tell that Wang liqin is holding a heavy racquet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O! Ju Qian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 3:54am
Good explanation alphapong. I hope that more people think about this. I wish my carbon blade was a little heavier. i think it was like 87 g.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reachie85 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:15am
Originally posted by O! Ju Qian O! Ju Qian wrote:

That's the problem with lighter setup. You will get the feeling that you are hitting the ball too early, especially when you are trying to finish the point. That's why you can loose control with lighter blades in terms of stroke speed.

yeap, but even with a heavy set up, i still hit too early, although considerably better.  that's just something i gotta work on with time now, else i'd be playing table tennis with a brick  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silvalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:29am
Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:


Stiga O.C. � Heavy with medium flex and softness,

They're <85g


Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:

Petr Korbel � Heavy with medium flex and softness,


Typical mass 85g. NOT heavy.



[edit: mybad. bty aus says 85g. bty jpn says 90g nominal]


Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:

Donic powerplay -  Heavy with medium flex and softness

I've seen theses anywhere between 80 and 90g

 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT_Freak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:34am
Its the same with any racquet sport, to get more power you either have to make it heavier or make it stiffer. I have a theory that at some stage a heavier setup will result in less power but more spin and control, because thats what happened with my tennis racquet. Perhaps this is why all the top players like heavy blades (Ma Lin, Wang Liqin and Ryu Seung Min all use exceptionally heavy blades).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silvalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:39am
You can't count RSM here. He's a single side jpen. Even with an enormously heavy rubber, the total mass is still going to be <160g.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT_Freak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:44am
I've heard that he uses ultra dense grade hinoki though, which when talking about cypress tends to be over 100g.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alphapong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:59am
Originally posted by silvalis silvalis wrote:

Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:


Stiga O.C. � Heavy with medium flex and softness,


No. They're <85g.

 
 
89  is > 85
Of course what I have in stock is actualy over 90 Grams.


Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:

Petr Korbel � Heavy with medium flex and softness,


Typical mass 85g. NOT heavy.

 


[edit: mybad. bty aus says 85g. bty jpn says 90g nominal]


Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:

Donic powerplay -  Heavy with medium flex and softness

I've seen theses anywhere between 80 and 90g


 
Powerplay is spec'd at 88 but every one I have ever gotten has been over 90.
 
Also, you seem to be going by manufactures posted specs which in reallity are  not much more than a combination of marketing and wishfull thinking. I have all of these in stock (except Korbel) and they all average over 90 Grams.  Perhaps tomorrow I will take photos of the blades on the scale.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forehandloop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 5:03am
im not a very big guy so I use a rather light blade, around 80g. However, I find I can still control my shots, and am more consistent than when I try out my partner's heavy butterfly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silvalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 5:04am
Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:

Originally posted by silvalis silvalis wrote:

Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:


Stiga O.C. � Heavy with medium flex and softness,


No. They're <85g.

 
 
89  is > 85
Of course what I have in stock is actualy over 90 Grams.


Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:

Petr Korbel � Heavy with medium flex and softness,


Typical mass 85g. NOT heavy.

 


[edit: mybad. bty aus says 85g. bty jpn says 90g nominal]


Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:

Donic powerplay -  Heavy with medium flex and softness

I've seen theses anywhere between 80 and 90g


 
Powerplay is spec'd at 88 but every one I have ever gotten has been over 90.
 
Also, you seem to be going by manufactures posted specs which in reallity are  not much more than a combination of marketing and wishfull thinking. I have all of these in stock (except Korbel) and they all average over 90 Grams.  Perhaps tomorrow I will take photos of the blades on the scale.


No, I am not going by manufacturer specs.

Look, I've had 3 OC straights pass through me, one of them wrb. heaviest 85, lightest 79.5 (wrb). I've weighed 1 korbel, which was 84g, from bty aus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silvalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 5:05am
Originally posted by TT_Freak TT_Freak wrote:

I've heard that he uses ultra dense grade hinoki though, which when talking about cypress tends to be over 100g.


But when you take into consideration his rubber, (whatever it is), you're only looking at 50g tops. Jpen cutouts tend to be smaller (and hence lighter) than a shakehand or cpen cutout.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jolan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 7:04am
Alphapong : Clap.
Very interresting post and very fresh too. I tend to agree with you regarding the importance of a decent weighed blade into the looping and driving ability. As an example I still got two taico 100 blades that I've considered for a long time as my best gear for looping. If you wonder why they are called taico 100, just put them on a scale, they are...100g. Sometimes I let them tried by some practice mates and they quickly gave them back to me in disguss. The word "brick" been oftenly used. Now I also understand the lighter blade player concern, such as aeoliah. There's a world of difference between a 80g and a 95g blade when you're practicing two hours and you usually play loop mid-distance. Heavy blades hurt. I'm currently having a shoulder tendinosis and it sucks ! Therefore I practice with my 80g septear at the mmnt and I mostly block and push for the youngsters to work on their consistency. But as soon as the pain gives me a break, I seize my beloved 92g acoustic and start the bombing...I'm in heaven !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT_Freak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 7:28am
Well, considering that my old pips out blade was about 140g I think that he would be able to get something in that weight range anyway, or maybe his ultra hard and heavily speedglued rubber helps.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 8:35am
And don't forget that manufacturing tolerance can be more than 10 grams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ppgear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 8:43am
Originally posted by reachie85 reachie85 wrote:

i have a bad habit of hitting the ball too early (trying to correct that) especially on offense.  i feel that i can generate the most speed and spin after the ball has reached its highest point and on the way down during the trajectory, but most of the times i hit really close to the highest point.  so having a heavier blade kinda gives me a lil bit of lag time that i feel i'm putting more power into the ball.

You shouldn't be switching your blade in order to fix your hitting-too-early issue, you should be fixing your stroke in your mind and in practice. You need to overcome any flaws by adusting yourself, not your equipment.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ppgear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 8:49am
I like light blades (max 85g) because I can more quickly hide my stroke from service (not sure what the term is). Like, when I serve, right after making contact with the ball I jerk my wrist in another direction so it makes it harder for the opponent to guess my spin, instead of showing my follow-through. Sorta something similar to what Chen Qi does, and Ma Lin sometimes, actually very close to what Wang Liqin does sometimes where he flips the racket so the backhand side is facing the opponent.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silvalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 9:46am
I like heavy (85-90) blades if i'm using euro or japanese rubber, otherwise light (75-80) if i'm using chinese.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alphapong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by aeoliah aeoliah wrote:

And don't forget that manufacturing tolerance can be more than 10 grams.
 
Unfortunately you are all too correct. This is common even with the expensive name brands. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wawaicetea123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 1:14pm
i think most eperienced players like a bat around 95 to 100 grms
it dosnt really matter how heavy it is to me
im 6'0 200 pounds
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O! Ju Qian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2007 at 1:50pm
Don't forget that more experienced or pro players sometime get their stuff custom made. Here's an interesting artcicle about blades. http://www.gotabletennis.com/Blades_s/2.htm

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