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Color of hinoki wood |
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loop+loop
Super Member Joined: 09/17/2006 Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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Posted: 06/28/2007 at 2:10am |
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Why do some hinoki blades have wood that are brown instead of the normal light yellow?
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aeoliah
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215 |
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Interesting question. Hinoki quality is always a mistery to me. Mine (I have 3) are all light yellow.
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stephen chung
Super Member Joined: 02/25/2005 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 99 |
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YEah,,my KTS is pinkish
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Blade: Butterfly Custom made 1ply Hinoki 10mm
Rubber: Bryce Hard |
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longreachlooper
Member Joined: 03/23/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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For crying out loud, I thought Hinoki was a dark brown!
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patrick1v
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actually hinoki (cypress) wood is not a real cypress but a cedar wood so dont be surprise with the different colours
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PLLsystem
Silver Member Joined: 05/30/2005 Location: Hungary Status: Offline Points: 794 |
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My favourite blade was Jonyer Hinoki. I always meet it with seasoned yellow (a bit darker) hinoki. Recently I played with a Andro Ch.S�ss Hinoki. I have worn away 7 pcs. because the upper ply is very instable. Some of them endured a week some a month then started to splinter very much. The last two has darker, seasoned upper ply like darker pine and these are very stable. Since I have been involved in making rackets I know that quality, origination and age of hinoki/cypress veneers effects on its colour. (vice-versa) And although it is a very good raw material very-very hard to work with.
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petermoo
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PLLsystem, Can you tell me the difference between american cypress and Japanese cypress?
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Petermoo
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PLLsystem
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I think it is not the coutry that counts. From both places you can get bad or good cypress. The narrower fibres you can see the better quality the veneer has. If the pattern is wider but darker it is also good for bat ply.
When I get veneers I am not informed if it is originated from Japan or America
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patrick1v
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the japanese cypress is actually a cedar not a real cypress look at grains similar to cedar grains
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patrick1v
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port orford cedar is very similar to the japanese cypress
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aeoliah
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malvin
This is my first post and I have been living and working in
Many people in my club really like their Darker blades due
to the quality and price. I have a Darker Speed 90 and I think it is nice and
worth the money as opposed to Butterfly's J-pens. Butterfly blades are
sometimes a little on the heavy side due to the drying process which is often
only 1 year because they want to mass produce their blades quickly. Overall
Darker is great and actually from what I have seen and heard, more people in
Japan prefer Darker, Kokutaku, and Nittaku Kiso Hinoki rackets as opposed to
Butterfly's Kiso Hinoki rackets.
I would say that it is about 50 50 in my club and when it is
time to change blades, most people in my club are kind of brand loyal and try
to get the same model again. But some of the older members of my club often say
they like Kokutaku a little more because the blades are a bit lighter than some
Darker blades and they don't mind paying 2000 or 3000 yen for a blade they will
use for probably another 5 or 6 years. I hope this information helps.
I think one of the cool things about playing and buying
table tennis in Japan is actually going to the pro table tennis shops and
picking out the racket, especially the J-pen you want. I think I am in a unique
situation because my coach who is also a former champion of Japan has a close
relationship with the president of Kokutaku. Every year he and the Kokutaku
president get together and they negotiate a price and quantity of special
Kokutaku Kiso Hinoki J-pens. My coach owns a pro table tennis shop called Hero
Sports and every year Kokutaku makes 20 special J-pens called the Hero Special
and it is actually much higher in quality and weighs less the average 10mm
J-pen. I got mine from his shop and my J-pen is 10.15mm, but it is only 81
grams which is quite rare for such a thick J-pen. Since I use to have a
Butterfly Kim Taek, I think for the money and quality Kokutaku, Darker, and
Nittaku are often better in quality and price than Butterlfy's J-pens.
Actually from what I have seen Carbon J-pen's are not as
popular as as 1 ply Kiso Hinoki blades. But I have seen some people use the
Butterfly Lendido, which is a Arylate Carbon racket. I have looked at many new
table tennis catalogues and think their is a reemphasis on thicker 1 Ply Kiso
Hinoki rackets now because the seems to be a shortage of really high quality
Kiso Hinoki now. It is illegal to cut down a Kiso Hinoki tree that is 300 years
old and older in
I think quality of a Kiso Hinoki is merited from how
straight the lines are are, how dense the lines are and how long it has been
dried (weight). In my new Kokutaku catalogue it advertises a new 10mm Super Cho
1D100 model. The advertised price of this racket is 20,000 yen before tax, but
I think iruiru gives you 20% discount on that so it would be like 16,000 yen.
My coach just got his new Kokutaku goods in last week, so iruiru might not have
received their new Kokutaku goods yet. About weight, it is often better to get
a lighter Kiso Hinoki J-pen because your rubber might be heavy, but maybe not.
The reason why older Kiso Hinoki is more expensive is because their is often
higher grain density and the wood is often dried for a longer period of time,
thus reducing the weight of the racket. I think a good way to maybe get a good
10mm Kokutaku or Darker racket is by emailing iruiru about the availability of
the racket and if they get a batch of them, ask them to weigh them out and ask
them to look for the one with the straightest lines. The most important thing
is that all the lines are pointing in the same direction and personally I like
my 10mm J-pens 85 grams or less. But actually finding a 10mm Kokutaku or Darker
under 85 grams is pretty difficult because even in a batch of 10mm J-pens, the
range can go from 78 to 108 grams. In the batch of Kokutaku Hero Special
rackets their was a range from 79 to 97 grams. The reason I did not select the
78 gram one was because the lines were not as straight and pointing in the same
direction as the one I got that is 81 grams. Overall 2 or 3 grams really does
not make that big of a difference, but anything over 5 usually makes a difference.
So in selecting a 10mm J-pen whether it is Kokutaku or Darker, try to find one
that 1.) has really straight lines and the lines are densely packed together
and 2.) try not to get one that is too heavy. I truthfully like Kokutaku J-pens
a little more, but I also have a Darker Speed 90 and think that it is an
excellent racket also. So depending on your budget for 10mm Kiso Hinoki J-pens,
you can go with either Darker or Kokutaku. If you have any more questions
please ask because I am more than happy to share what I know.
About whether to go with a 9mm or 10mm Kiso Hinoki racket, I
think it really depends on your style of game. Both the 9mm and 10mm are great
for looping if you have the technique down, but the 9mm usually provides more
control for more technical shots and for easier net play as opposed to a 10mm
Kiso Hinoki racket which is often more powerful, but control is sacrificed. If
you play like Ryu Seung Min, then 10mm is the way to go, but if you play more
like Chiang Peng Lung, then 9mm is the way to go. I talked to my coach today
and asked him what table tennis companies get the best Kiso Hinoki and he said
1. Kokutaku, 2. Nittaku, 3. Darker, and 4. Butterfly. I also have a Nittaku Cho
Takusen A racket which is 9mm and it is very very good and great for a control
game, but enough power when needed. But another option to consider is a 9.5mm
racket. You can ask iruiru to call Kokutaku and have them make you a custom
Super Cho 1D100 Kiso Hinoki J-pen for you that is 9.5mm if you are willing to
pay 20,000 yen for this racket. Please post more questions if you have any more
and I will do my best to answer them.
The 10mm Super Cho Kiso Hinoki blade from Kokutaku is not
available on iruiru yet. It is interesting because not all stores get or carry
Kokutaku rackets. For example I went to a table tennis pro shop in
I think it usually takes about 1 week or 10 business days
for a company to restock a certain product. I think if you want to get a
quality 1 ply Kiso Hinoki racket, the process can be quite long and the
questions can be many. I was a J-pen player for 12 years, but I switched to
shakehand a few years ago. I still love playing with J-pen and I teach kids in
my local table tennis club on Sunday nights. Over the years I learned many
things about Kiso Hinoki rackets and I am very happy to share with you what I
know. malvin
Hello Adib, malvin
Yes I am in complete agreement with ryno. If you want a top
grade 1 ply Kiso Hinoki blade, there is a price correlation with the quality of
the blade. My Hero Special cost me 20,000 yen and it is the best J-pen I have
ever tried. The power, feel, and control are unmatched even to other J-pens
that are about 10,000 yen. The Xiom Ryu Seung Min Platinum is a top grade
racket and therefore there is a high price tag with it. My Hero Special is
actually better than my old KTS because it has equal power, it lighter, more
feel, and definitely more control. malvin
Hello aeoliah,
Hello hip66,
Hi Malvin, malvin jake_my
To all, SDRamones
Yes . . . exactly. In the HINOKI is Japanese "False" On a side note. This Hinoki is also in the same species as the trees used in making Bonsai trees. Also, in Japan Hinoki is used in making buildings, the Emperor's palace, caskets, temples and bathes. So there is a lot of competition for prime cuts of the good Hinoki.
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longreachlooper
Member Joined: 03/23/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Here is a website that sells Kokutaku blades. And I saw HINOKI wood too. http://www.iruiru.com/e/ |
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Ginko Tai Kim
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I always thought Kokutaku blades were just overpriced Friendship/LKT blades. Just compare there rubbers to the BTY range |
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aeoliah
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I don't know about other types, but my Kokutaku Super Cho Tokusen 10 mm is the nicest blade for me so far, and despite the fact that I find thick blade uncomfortable, I like this blade very much (I am comparing this blade to Bty Cypress and Darker Speed 90 - 9 mm). I consider that it is worth the price for this specific blade.
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Ginko Tai Kim
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Ya perhaps the J-holds blades are very nice, but how about the Shakehands... I think they only have a small amount on offer that have the hinoki. Where as pretty much all the J-blades are Hinoki
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longreachlooper
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This site if you look at shakehands blades there is a couple that have the HINOKI cypruss. http://www.iruiru.com/e/ |
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aeoliah
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I noted that recently more and more single ply hinoki shakehands are coming in the market.
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longreachlooper
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I don't know about other types, but my Kokutaku Super Cho Tokusen 10 mm
is the nicest blade for me so far, and despite the fact that I find
thick blade uncomfortable, I like this blade very much (I am comparing
this blade to Bty Cypress and Darker Speed 90 - 9 mm). I consider that
it is worth the price for this specific blade.
have you tried sanding down the blade some? I have a little about 4 inch by 4 inch square electric sander from Hardware Department that works fantastic to make a handle or blade a little smaller if done gently. |
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aeoliah
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Do you mean sanding it to reduce the thickness ? That is something I will never try. If I want thinner blade, I will just buy one that is available in the market. The only thing I do is shaving the blade to accomodate my fingers. In fact I have one Schlager Carbon X-CS which is bigger than normal, and I would prefer it to be smaller, but I don't want to take any risk.
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longreachlooper
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I wasn't talking about making the blade "surface" (where you put the rubber) any thinner, ONLY the handle to make smaller as you are saying. I thought when you said "so thick" you were talking about the handle being uncomfortably thick. The only thing I do is shaving the blade to accomodate my fingers |
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longreachlooper
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In fact I have one Schlager Carbon X-CS which is bigger than normal, and I would prefer it to be smaller, but I don't want to take any risk. Maybe you have a woodworker in your area? |
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Jolan
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It's because of us, freaking equipment junkies. What do you think butterfly, tibhar and other big bosses are doing all day long. They are reading TT forums trying to find out what are the tends. All they're reading lately is HINOKI, HINOKI, and HINOKI. So they go down to the factory and tell the workers : HINOKI, HINOKI and HINOKI. And then Aeoliah wonders : How come we have so much Hinoki new blades these times ? And then here it goes again and again.
Please stop the cycle for a while or there won't be any hinoki tree left on the kiso montains soon. Ayous is also good, koto not bad, american cedar mmmmmh, balsa cra....euh some fancy it.
PS : my septear has 7 plies some are clear yellow some are light brown some are goldish.
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loop+loop
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aeoliah: Thanks for the references, but I'm hoping that someone with a good knowledge of wood supplies would enlighten us a little better. By the way, the blades I got actually says Kiso Hinoki on the sides.
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aeoliah
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Longreachlooper, I don't want to make it smaller even by a woodworking specialist, because I think Butterfly has calculated everything, including balance. If I change it, then it might not be nice to use anymore, and I don't want to take the risk.
Jcdi, Agreed, it is us that is to be blamed. By the way I like the brother of your blade very much too, I even have 2 of them, one Violin J-pen and one Violin C-pen. If they make the penhold version of the Acoustic, I would certainly try it also. |
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