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Need Advice Please. Gergely, rubbers or skill? |
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rokphish
Gold Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 1924 |
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Posted: 11/27/2007 at 7:55am |
Hi, all!
I need your valuable advices please.... I currently have a credit with one of local TT store and I'm wondering how to spend it. I was thinking about getting either Gergely or Primorac Carbon. Here's my background: I started playing with a premade cheap chinese blade+rubbers about 2 years ago and had a chinese student who were majoring on tt p.e. teaching me how to play tt for about 2 months. Then I didn't play for a year after that. Last year I started playing again in a local tt club. I used DHS H-WL with Faster 3 and Hurricane 3 (commercial). From then I managed to try several other rubbers such as: Hurricane 2, 729 Lightening, Dawei 388, Dawei Inspirit, LKT XT, LKT Torrent, Sriver El, Cermet, Mark V Ad, Andro Plasma, Andro Revolution, Prashida Frankfurt, Prashida Osaka, Prashida Tokyo, and Prashida Tokyo 2 (pre-release sample). Half a year ago I got another all wood blade (7ply) Sanwei V5. Had no idea what kind of wood since no information that I could find on it. The V5 has much vibration (I like it), less control than the H-WL, but quite much faster than the H-WL. A couple months ago I got me Dawei Wavestone based on the good reviews I read here and other forums and have been using this blade since. My early setup was using Hurricane 3 BH with Faster 3 BH. But then I found the most suitable BH in LKT XT. It just worked great for me. BUT I had to use speed glue for the XT to work for me. A few months back I decided to forgo speed glue, thus I need to find other rubbers. I then used Sriver-EL for BH, which proved to be great also. A little bit worse compare to LKT XT glued for me, but I could manage. And since I forgo using speed glue, I also need to change my FH rubber. All the chinese rubbers I tried seems to lack in speed without using speed glue. The closest one I try was the LKT Torrent, but I found the chop was too high on my FH. I then tried Mark V Ad, but it didn't feel that great for me. I then tried the Andro's and Prashida's. The andro are fast but i seemed to not be able to produce much spin with them. The prashida I finally hit it off with the Tokyo and Tokyo 2. But the thing is that locally, no tt stores are selling these series, so I have to get it from Hong Kong (my uncle has good relation with the main prashida guy over HK). Well, actually, the other problem is that, when I used the Tokyo on my BH, it seems to be great fit than on my FH as well. I then got me Bty Cermet hoping to use it on the FH. A couple of months ago when I first got it, I couldn't produce much spin with it, but I'm doing fine now. Problem is, it's still doesn't feel all that great for my FH. I then tried using it on the BH and it works great for my BH as well. So, again and again I'm finding good BH rubbers but not for my FH. I'm an all-round player trying to be spin player on both wings. Currently my play is majority spin with FH (loop/fast spin) and majority chop, block and smash with BH (flip-smash BH is my strength). Lately I've been observing that my FH spins fall in the middle of the table regardless of position (left-center-right), which make it easy for the opponent to react. Even when I hit hard fast low spin. My standby stand is about 1 m behind the table and during play could move to 2 m back but not farther. I tried standing closer to the table but then I ruin my timing. With all that, would I benefit from getting the Gergely or Primorac Carbon? Reason for the limited option is that the TT store I currently have a extra credit with only carry Gergely, PC, and Sardius Bty blades. The store has more chinese DHS, 729, Dawei, stuff and no other brands. I rule out Sardius because of least control based on the ratings. I'm leaning toward Gergely because it has highest control rating out of the three, but not the least in speed. Also reading the forum, I read that Gergely has better reviews/ratings than the PC. So, will using Gergely benefit me? Or other rubbers? Or perhaps I should just get another Sriver EL for backups and just work on my FH skills? I'll appreciate your advices... TIA. |
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Stavros
Gold Member Joined: 12/02/2006 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1540 |
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I suggest you take a look at the Equipment section of www.tabletennis.gr
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InfinityVPS - D80 - D05
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rokphish
Gold Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 1924 |
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I did. That site and here what led me to my purchase of Sriver El, Cermet, and Dawei Wavestone. Good stuff. That's why I come back for more good advices...
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Stavros
Gold Member Joined: 12/02/2006 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1540 |
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Gergely 21 with Sriver EL works OK for me.
Gergely 21 with Cermet was a fast combination , having problems playing against better players than me. |
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InfinityVPS - D80 - D05
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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I would say that pure Carbon blades are not for you. You are not an all-out attacking player, you probably chop and use short game quite a lot. In my opinion, you shouldn't go for a very speedy blade with much less control. Wavestone seems to me like a very good blade for your style. However, if you are certain you want to try a faster blade, Galaxy T-4 is a very good one. It's four plys of Carbon, it's pretty fast but judging by what owners say about it, it has a surprisingly good control as well. Full disclosure: I haven't played with it so it's just a purely academic opinion...
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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rokphish
Gold Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 1924 |
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@Stavros
Gergely 21 is the same with Gergely right? Except for smaller head and holder? @JimT I first thought the same too, that pure carbon won't suit me. But at denistt equipment site I read a lot of people mentioned that they could generate lots of topspin with the Gergely so I thought that I could use it for my FH and the speed of carbon for my flip-smash BH. Thing is, I have a credit with this particular store (for refund stuff) and the store doesn't carry many brands because they're one of DHS/729 agent, that's what they carry most. Other than DHS/729 they only carry 3 Bty (Gergely, Primorac Carbon, and Sardius), a couple of Dawei A/C, and Gambler A/C. So I have limited option here. Either get blade or rubbers. No cash refund... =( When I received service on BH, I mostly chop (my BH chop makes heavy chop). Then make opening for either FH spin or BH smash. When I received service on FH I mostly spin then make opening for FH spin or BH smash. I'm learning to spin on BH as well on receiving service but not there yet. When I receive long ball on BH I block/drive. Long ball on FH I spin. Mostly fast-low spin on FH with occasional loop if the ball falls too low. Learning to spin on the BH too. |
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bull_harrier
Platinum Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2436 |
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The Gergley 21 is faster and has a harder feel than the original Gergley. All carbon blades do not have very good feel to them on average. People can generate spin with them but it does take good skill to do so. If you are really set on getting something with carbon in it go with and A/C conbination, it will have a softer feel than regular carbon and help your spin game out a lot more. I haven't used the Gambler blades but if any of them are similar to the TBS get it.
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rokphish
Gold Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 1924 |
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Thanks Bull_Harrier. I'm using an A/C blade right now, Dawei Wavestone. Not sure the problem of my balls end up on the mid section of the table is because of improper form or not enough speed (rubber/blade). I'm currently using the Wavestone with Bty Cermet and Prashida Tokyo 2. I seem to hit the spin on the mid section of the table (right-center-left) with either rubber, the difference is that using Cermet my spin is lower (arc-wise) than the Tokyo. As far as technical level, I'm still learning. I couldn't use the Cermet 4 months ago. 4 months ago I could generate more spin using Sriver EL than with Cermet. Now I'm getting compliment on my FH spin but still have a left over chinese spin form that needs to be dealt with.
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bull_harrier
Platinum Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2436 |
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That's good that you are improving your FH spin. Cermet is a good rubber, I used it on my backhand for a while. As long as you can keep being consistent that will be the biggest key to your improvement.
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rokphish
Gold Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 1924 |
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Thanks. Being consistent is hard. Also, problem is... I like the cermet on the BH better than on the FH. Thus the search continues for FH rubber...
Thing is, the cermet seems to be fast enough rubber but that I could only hit on the mid section makes me wonder. Time to get a coach maybe... |
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bull_harrier
Platinum Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2436 |
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Well a coach would help. When i had Cermet on the BH i had Bryce FX on the FH. I thought that was a very good combination. It was a very spinny, fast, yet controllable setup.
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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Gergely-21 is a much nicer design than the Gergely . . . especially the weight and handle. I have a new one for sale. :-).
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bull_harrier
Platinum Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2436 |
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It probably wouldn't be a good idea for rokphish to use the Gergley 21 or the Gergley. I think the setup he has now is a good combination for what he's trying to do right now, the Gergley 21 would probably be too fast and a waste of his time and money. The rubber he's using right now is fast enough, tossing that on the Gergley 21 would be detrimental to his game right now.
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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You might be right.
I would rather have a good fast blade and adjust my rubbers, but I only buy Chinese rubbers that don't cost that much in comparision. |
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bull_harrier
Platinum Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2436 |
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I'm think to the contrary, I would rather have a slower/medium blade with faster rubber. To me it is easier to experiment that way and to have more variation. But to each their own
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rokphish
Gold Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 1924 |
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Thanks, both of you.
I think that getting carbon is not a good idea now. I might as well spent the money to pay for coaching. As far as the store credit... I might end up using it for rubbers. Cermet is certainly faster than the Sriver El that I have good fit with. The Tokyo 2 is even faster. So I think it's technical error on my part. I used to play with Chinese rubbers but lately I found it to be too slow unless I use speed glue. With speed glue, the best BH for me is still the LKT XT and for FH, the longest rubber I used was Hurricane 3, albeit the commercial version. But since I don't want to use speed glue anymore, I can't use these two anymore. I tried but they just didn't work for me without speed glue. Too slow. Or perhaps I should try faster blade with these slow chinese rubbers? Say Gergely with LKT XT and Hur 3/Inspirit/Torrent? Would that give me enough speed without using speed glue? I like chinese rubbers for their price. For 1 Sriver EL I could get 3 LKT XT sheets. 5-6 XT for 1 Cermet. |
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instagram: rokphishtt
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bull_harrier
Platinum Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2436 |
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It's up to you, but right now if you feel that what you have right now is not too bad then keep working with that to build up your technical game, then worry about switching over to the rocket equipment. And find a good rubber for your BH if you think the Tokyo is too fast.
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rokphish
Gold Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 1924 |
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The bigger problem is with the FH. I find that I could use either Cermet/Tokyo on my BH just well. And I'm not looking for rocket setup since I don't play all attack nor I want to develop to be that kind of player. It's just quite annoying to find something that works but not anymore because of not using speed glue.
Thanks for your advices, though. I think that you're right. I just need to keep working on the skill rather than pursuing to find "the one" perfect setup. |
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instagram: rokphishtt
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bull_harrier
Platinum Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2436 |
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Yeah, once you develop your game more and get a style more set in stone for yourself then you'll be able to get that good setup for yourself to match your style. It'll come
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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My advice for you after reading all this is to keep Wavestone (this is a really nice blade that has a lot of control to it, and that is definitely something that developing players need in abundance) and experiment with FH rubbers. Try Dawei Inspirit Quattro if they have that or even try Bryce/Bryce FX (but that's much more expensive) with speed-glue; or go with LKT Torrent on FH, that's a fast rubber as well.
If you are really thinking about switching to pure Carbon, you should try one first - ask around in your club or your friends if anybody has it and then borrow it for an hour or so. |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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PongPong
Silver Member Joined: 06/03/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 497 |
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I do not feel Gergely is that hard or fast maybe because it has two thick Hinoki outer layers.
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bull_harrier
Platinum Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2436 |
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The Gergely had a pretty medium feeling to it, but the Gergely 21 has a hard feel to it.
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rokphish
Gold Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 1924 |
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I tried Inspirit and Torrent. Inspirit is ok with speed glue. Torrent i found i need to change my chop movement because it goes higher than others i tried. Quattro, no local stores sell it cause of very low/no demand. I read about bryce series but read that without speed glue they dont perform as good. I dont want to use speed glue anymore. If i were to speed glue i might stay with LKT XT on BH and H2/3 on FH a lot longer.
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instagram: rokphishtt
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YATTP
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2005 Location: Antarctica Status: Offline Points: 563 |
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Look, Gergely or Primorac Carbon are certainly not for you at this point - maybe much later, but most likely never.
These are extreme blades for very special types of players who chose them for very specific reasons. After only a few years in the business, you can't possibly be one of them. Don't spend your money on experimenting with blades and rubbers. This will do you no good whatsoever. Chose standard equipment and stick with it and enjoy getting a better player. generally considered standard equipment like this is e.g. Stiga Allround Classic, Stiga Allround Evolution, Donic Waldner or Appelgren Allplay + Sriver L 2.1 or max without speed glue. |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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I think that you might still want to stay with the SG - I was thinking the same thing before I tried Tibhar CTE with Tibhar Clean Fix water-based glue. The result was absolutely fine. If anybody is interested I will post more after I spend more time practicing with the resulting blade. Presumably, you only need to do that once in a month and that is absolutely fine by me. When I tried old speed-glue (I have to do that in my office because you need several hours to put subsequent layers of glue on it, and I spend 10 hrs straight in my office so why not use that...) everything around me stunk for the entire day, and VOC were pretty nasty, especially when you do that in a rather enclosed office... There is no such problem with CTE - it smells a tiny little bit but the smell is not bad and it goes away in a minute, not to mention that there are no VOCs so you probably won't have brain damage any time soon... all you need to do is to put another layer on every hour or so, and by the end of the day you are done. Tibhar CF also works quite fine, I had no problem with sticking the rubber on the blade (you should put a thin layer on both and wait 5 minutes). Every next time they say you only need to put 1-2 layers of CTE - and that's only once a month! sounds like a winner ... also there are other reviews (on OOAK, for instance) and people say they like it enough to switch to it. |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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rokphish
Gold Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 1924 |
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@ YATTP:
You're right. I'm not going to be buying more blades/rubbers (except to replace the current ones) until much later. I'm not using speed glue anymore. @JimT: Those stuff you mentioned are not readily available here locally. So far only bty water glue made it here. So I'm sticking with rubber cement for now. I did the same before, gluing two rubbers on a blade in n enclosed air conditioned office. I got dizzy just after and am not talking about multiple layers here. That was a one-time only mistake. |
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instagram: rokphishtt
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