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Preparing blade

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    Posted: 06/01/2008 at 11:50pm
Many threads on new rubbers, blades etc...

What is the forum members experience in preparing a blade. Does everyone use urethrane? I've seen some topics on people using hairspary.

Also - how much does one apply? Can there be too much, or too little/

Couple of sites showing application of the stuff shows the blade to be almost soaking wet?! Does that not 'harden' the paddle? Makes it faster?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brainstorm69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 12:07am
I use polyurethane.  But I don't use nearly as much as those sites that show someone "soaking" the blade.  I use a rag to wipe on very light coats.  Maybe two coats on the faces, and then a little heavier on the edges to avoid splintering.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mithrra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 12:09am
I have used the Xiom water based protector over the weekend on my darker speed 90.... IT works well......easy to dry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 12:12am
i use 1000 girts or above sand paper to polish the blade. works great for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rokphish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 12:50am
Originally posted by Mithrra Mithrra wrote:

I have used the Xiom water based protector over the weekend on my darker speed 90.... IT works well......easy to dry


Mithrra.... It's one of those small bottle with sponge on the head, which, when you press down the liquid will come out, right? Like the Donic Combi Cleaner bottle.

How do you exactly apply it on your blade? Could you apply thin and even layer with it? Do you go in circular motion or left-right/up/down? Not really important to know the direction as much as how you do it to apply thin and even layer of it...

How long does it take to dry? How many layers did you do?

=)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeathAngel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 2:26am
Maybe someone can make a video on this site of how to properly Seal a blade, because some of us new comers to sealing, like myself, may be quite hesitant in ruining the blade.

Im scared to even glue my own blade because i might do it uneven or get it on the rubber surface.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rokphish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 2:51am
there's a video of how to cut and glue rubbers to blade. see colestt.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeathAngel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 3:08am
Thanks a lot those really helped!

I saw one on the internet for sealing, i was just wondering if you should sand the polyurethane after sealing it to get a smooth even finish?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rokphish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 3:25am
You're welcome. I like cutting with cutter myself. Can't get them to cut evenly with scissors...
About sanding... some say yey some say ney... Do the sealing first then you can see n decide yourself whether you need to sand or not...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 3:31am
Rokphish,
I think you should (this is what I am doing now) is to wipe the rag along the grain and not crossing it at whatever angle. In this way we can be sure that the tiny microscopic groove which we call "grain" is filled with the sealant. On the second coat then I think it is ok to cross the grain.
Deathangel,
If you apply the polyurethane to the rag and then wipe it on the blade, it is not necessary (at all) to sand the blade. I never sand the blade as I don't want to cause unevennes on the blade face, even if it cannot be seen with bare eyes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rokphish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 4:32am
Wipe along the grain... Got it!
Problem is that, i tried  sealing the side of a blade before... I sprayed the poly on a small piece of clothe (the one you use to clean eye-glasses). I sprayed it 5-6 times on close range. And it got soaking wet, but when I apply it on the side, before going very far, it felt stuck, that is it felt that it doesn't giving varnish to the wood surface anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NTTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 9:11am
Would it not make sense to make the urethrane thicker at the edge to prevent splintering?

The whole purpose is to prevent splintering but at the same time to allow the rubber to be removed easier!

Note that blades already made by the companies do not prep the blade and when one tries to change the rubber it sticks like crazy to the grain of the blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 10:04am
andro free water based sealer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeathAngel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 10:58am
Well today im going out to buy some polyurethane water soluble to try on my old blade before i do it on my korbel so if i screw up its not to bad.

Any one got any reminders to make sure i do it right?

Sand befor, no dust.

Anything would really help before i go for it thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 11:39am
Originally posted by DeathAngel DeathAngel wrote:

Well today im going out to buy some polyurethane water soluble to try on my old blade before i do it on my korbel so if i screw up its not to bad.

Any one got any reminders to make sure i do it right?

Sand befor, no dust.

Anything would really help before i go for it thanks


Here is what I do, in form of instructions "to-do" list

1) buy wipe-on PolyU (like Minwax Wipe-On) - I don't think it makes a lot of diff whether it's a water- or oil-based one. I use regular...

2) find quiet well ventilated place (you will only need it for 15 mins)

3) get some paper towels, a disposable plastic teaspoon (of the kind they give away at any Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks or office kitchen)

4) carefully and gently sand or wipe or whatever your blade.... if it's new so much the better...

5) pour polyU to fill 3/4 of the plastic spoon and then pour it out of the spoon onto the face of the blade

6) spread the liquid on the face for a couple of minutes using the same plastic spoon

7) then hold the blade with its edge down (handle parallel to the floor) so that excess of the polyurethane drips down from its side - back into your plastic spoon

8) collect that excessive liquid and pour it onto the second side of the blade, then spread it around

9) turn over the blade to the first side and now use your paper towel to spread the liquid more evenly

10) return to the second side and add 1/2 of the teaspoonful... then do same things as in 6-8

11) use paper towel (same one I guess) to spread the liquid evenly on both sides, wipe it off on the edge - you can even pour some more of polyu (1/3 spoonful?) into the paper towel and use it to wipe the liquid on the edge

12) wait 2-3 minutes so that most of the polyu hardens a bit, then repeat the entire operation

13) in the end make sure that both faces are covered evenly, there are no spots missed, no places where polyu has accumulated to form a "mole" etc.

14) then when polyu is more or less dry (but still very sticky) just lean it against the wall so that the handle touches the wall, and the top of the blade touches the floor (or your desk) - put a paper towel underneath just in case

15) also it is not advisable to let polyu to get onto the handle - if it happens, wipe it off quickly and don't let it happen again

16) in 20 minutes (or you can wait an hour) the blade should be ready for the rubbers

I might have missed something - so use this as general guidelines... however, I tried to be boringly exhaustive in these insrtuctions...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 11:56am
This is from another thread on the forum.
     Poly is the toughest, most resistant thing out there right now. If you play with other things, you take a chance. Some of the glues will soften some kinds of finishes but poly is immune to anything I have tried. Some cleaners will affect finishes also. Poly on a handle will make it slippery. If you get a little on there, just sand that spot with rough sandpaper. (80 or 120 grit)
     The effects of poly finishes on "fast" blades is hardly noticable. Even three coats. On defensive blades, it is more noticable. I have blades with one coat all the way up to 10 coats. All my blades are "fast". All have been done in pairs, one first so I could compare with the other blade. Even with 5 coats on a fast blade, it is hard to tell the difference. Some people "think " it changed the blade more than it really did because the blade with 5 coats will have a higher ping to it but if you compare to a reference blade, the blade plays real close to original.
     If you have a 300 HP engine and add 10 HP, it is not very noticable. If you have a 70 HP VW engine and add 10 HP, you feel it. That is how I think it effects blades.  The slow blades are effected much more than the fast, hard blades.
     If you wipe the poly on, figure out a way to hold the blade flat while it drys. Then you will not get runs. Yeppp, I put it on that thick. Spray is the eaisest to use. My favorite is Minwax Quick Dry Poly.  It is dry to the touch in about 2 hours. Ready to glue in 8 hours. Nothing I have used for glue or cleaners has touched it. Glue sheets and glue both come off great but also hold very well.
     Some blades have a very thin top veneer and if you hit the table, pieces can chip off. If you seal the edges of the blade, it is much less likely to chip.
     When you seal the blade, seal the little wings near the handle and they will stay clean.
     There is one blade with something in the wood that can prevent the poly from hardening. That is the Willpower. I tried wiping it down with  alchohol and no matter what I did, the poly would not harden.
     Notice, I hold the blade FLAT while drying. This prevents runs.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NTTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 12:36pm
Hookshot,

So the amount of stuff you puts on kinda leaves a glossy finish? Does leaving the blade flat not leave lumps and bumps?

What about sanding after application - is that necessary?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by NTTT NTTT wrote:

Hookshot,

So the amount of stuff you puts on kinda leaves a glossy finish? Does leaving the blade flat not leave lumps and bumps?

What about sanding after application - is that necessary?


If you put a lot of poly on it then after drying you can sand it - but very gently and with a very smooth sandpaper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 12:46pm
Also I should say here that my way of doing it is pretty non-intrusive - it is way better than using a hairspray but way less protective than Hookshot's. I just don't want to use too much poly on allround / off- blades. He is right, however - if your blade is rigid and offensive or off+ then adding three thick layers of poly won't change it much ... but this is not the case with springy or softer blades, even if they belong to the off class like my carbon-arylates.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 12:54pm
Sanding is not needed.
I like the glossy look and sand a little between coats with 320 grit. I do not sand the last coat. They also sell a satin finish poly. No gloss.
Glue or glue sheets stick very well to the shiney surface.
I like the spray can. If you have the can moving when you push the button, you will get nice even layers.
If you fill the grain and want a duller look, hit it with steel wool or rubbing compound. Do not use rubbing compound unless the grain is filled completely or some will end up in the pores of the wood and it will look funny.
Quick dry poly is not really dry for about 8 hours. It is dry to the touch in 2 but will be tougher in 8 hours.
I spray untill the blade looks evenly wet. That is why I keep the blade flat while it drys. No runs.
If you spray poly on a plastic bag and let it dry, you will find out it makes a REALLY THIN coat when dry. It is also flexiable to a degree.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NTTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 12:55pm
Tx JimT.

I woulda thought that your way did leave an uneven finish as well. But I guess you're not applying too much on the blade to begin with.

I've seen some blades at our club with uneven finishes as well as 'glossy' finishes - and the guys reckon it helps their game?! Go figure!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by NTTT NTTT wrote:

Tx JimT.

I woulda thought that your way did leave an uneven finish as well. But I guess you're not applying too much on the blade to begin with.

I've seen some blades at our club with uneven finishes as well as 'glossy' finishes - and the guys reckon it helps their game?! Go figure!


Correct - the overall amount of poly I use is less than 3 teaspoonfuls. I use paper towel to make sure there is no unevenness, then I reuse the same paper towel to wipe the edges, wings (if necessary) etc.

You can always repeat my operation if you feel that there is not enough poly left on the blade in the end of the process.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 8:22pm
OK, I think I will share my experiences:

1.  With Hairspray

I used Extra Hold Hairspray.  Very easy to use.  Just spray evenly.  I did two tests:  (1)  let it dry by itself and (2) wipe off the excess.  Conclusion:  No noticeable differences in playing characteristics.  Once in a while, I repeat spraying the hairspray.  What I notice after 4 - 6 times spraying (all within an interval of 1 - 2 weeks), you don't need it to spray it anymore.  It is pretty much stuck permanently and the surface become smooth but not shinny/glassy looking.  It is very durable.  I can jerk the rubbers without any effects on the top grains.  Forgot to say:  No sanding required!!

Later on I found the best way of doing this:  Spray evenly on the surface and before it dries, wipe a clean rag along the direction of the grain.  It will fill the "hole" and hold the grains much better.  First time sealing, you can do 2 - 3 coats and the playing characteristics are the same.

Applied on Korbel, FH side:  let it dry by itself and BH side:  wipe off excess (the two tests mentioned above).

2.  With Polyurethane:  I used Minwax Spray Polyurethane (Satin, not glossy type), fast dry.

I used it on 2 Offensive Classics (Stiga is notorious for splintering).  First one, I spray evenly (directly from the can onto the blade surface) and wipe off the excess (along the direction of the grain).  You can repeat the procedure if you wish (read below for the effect).

Second one, I used clean rag.  Spray generously on the rag and then wipe along the direction of the grain.  I found that the second way is much better in getting less and thin layers of seal (if you are afraid to change the feel of your blade).   If you want to be picky, even if you are using rag, after you wipe the rag along the grains, you can wipe it again (the wet blade) with another clean rag so you get a very very thin layers only.  But from my experience, you need to do at least twice to be secure (if you wipe it with clean rag to remove excess)

Will it change the feel of your blade?

I did experiments with the first OC.  Spray once, then play with it.  No significant differences noticed at all!!!

Spray twice, then play with it.  Yes, it feels a bit harder but performance wise, it is about the same.

Spray third time, then play with it.  WOW, it is harder and faster.  I can really feel it.  The blade itself is very smooth (probably looks glassy too if it's not on the brownish surface of OC) and it is very easy to take the rubbers off.

So I guess 1 - 2 coats are good enough.  I usually do it only once, but if I am in doubt, I apply the second coats.

It is correct that the effect of sealing on stiff fast blades is not that noticeable compared to  those of flexible soft blades.

Later on I experimented with combining both hairspray and Polyurethane.  I did the second method of applying polyurethane (using rag) just one coat.  Then after let it dry for an hour, I spray the blade with hairspray (also one coat and wipe off the excess).  I found that it is sealed better and retains the feeling of the blade.  I did it on my Dicon.

One blade that I admire is my Tibhar Samsonov Alpha.  It comes sealed from the factory.  Well, Alpha is originally not sealed, but the store owner that I bought the blade, requested Tibhar to seal all the blades that he ordered.  The blade looks great, very smooth surface, not glossy though.  I can jerk any rubbers off the blade and no splinter at all.  It is long lasting also.  I don't know what Tibhar are using but it is great stuff.  At first I was afraid that it would make the blade harder and lose the dwell time.  Actually, the dwell time is more compared to my Korbel (before it was sealed).

I hope it is helpful. On the lighter side, I don't think I want to try Tommi Zai's triple sealing as per Chinese Specifications method!!?!! Big%20smile Tongue


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fattchoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 9:21pm
From what I can understand so far, you guys say to avoid applying the poly on the handle because it can make it slippery? Am I right? And also, the advice is really for shakehand? Because if for Jpen, surely it should be ok to seal the whole blade??? Can anyone advise?
 
I just bought a bottle of this Jo Sonja's Gloss Varnish Polyurethane Water Based. I hope to experiment with a blade soon when I can decide which of my precious blades is going to be the guinea pigConfused
 
Cheers.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 9:42pm
For Pen, I would seal the handle as well.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fattchoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 9:58pm
hookshot, thanks for the advice.
 
Cheers.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2008 at 10:28pm
Thanks fattchoi,
     Best of luck,Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeathAngel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2008 at 2:01am
I just bought myself some Water soluble Diamond Wood Finish Interior Semi-Gloss verathane today and i hope it turns out nice when i apply it to my blade tomorow.

I hope i dont screw up, wish me luck :D

Thanks for all the help i feel a lot more confident doing this now!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rokphish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2008 at 3:08am
Try it on a piece of wood first... Or old/unwanted blade...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fattchoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2008 at 3:20am
I just experimented with my new Nittaku AAA. I have to say I like the gloss look. I varnished the whole blade. I think I will give it a fine 1200 grit sanding tomorrow before I put on a final coat. After that, I will leave it for a few days before I put on a piece of rubber and see how it goes.
 
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p.s. the blade was 94g to start with. It is now 96g.
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