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Tuners still legal? |
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amateur
Premier Member Joined: 02/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4801 |
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Cleaning should remain legal because it restores the original playing properties of the rubber.
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Peter C
Gold Member Joined: 04/25/2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1343 |
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The health concerns were the catalyst for the ban to be introduced. The ITTF made it clear they were banning VOC glues back in August last year, thereby giving players and manufacturers to find alternatives before September.
What they didn't really predict was the development of VOC free boosters and tuners, to replace speed glue and I think they let it go on too long before using rule 2.4.7 to ban them, via letters to umpires. I think they should have made it clearer a lot sooner to both the manufacturers and players. |
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JKC
Gold Member Joined: 11/12/2006 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 1625 |
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I'm pretty sure they could ban boosters on health grounds if they wished. Does anyone fancy drinking a bottle, or giving a bottle to their kid to drink to find out just how safe they are.
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7plywood
Silver Member Joined: 03/07/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 683 |
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That would be indeed more clear. However they cannot do that now, because ITTF does not authorize sponges in any way. Since the sponge has not been approved to begin with, altering a sponge is definietely allowed.
As to stretching the topsheet due to sponge stretch - well you can also stretch the topsheet while gluing it normally which I presume would not be counted as altering the topsheet in anybody's mind.
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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Hmm... no smilies here, so I presume you were serious. Are you considering then, for instance, to give a sheet of Sriver or Mark V or Inspirit to your kid to nibble on it? that would have serious health consequences, as we all can assume. But we are not banning the TT rubbers based on that, right? Ramming a blade down someone's throat would be pretty unhealthy, too... |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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pingpongrob
Gold Member Joined: 07/09/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1016 |
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You can stretch the Topsheet, but what will happen when it shrinks back, and you blade is then illegal. See, how people try and circumvent the rules. If it was as simple as stretching the topsheet, then speedglue would never have been invented. The rule clearly states that any modification to the topsheet renders it illegal. As for rubber being poisionous, I highly doubt that one would get sick if he ate a sheet of table tennis rubber. Then again I'm no doctor. Be fun trying to flush it down the loo, in a million pieces though |
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JKC
Gold Member Joined: 11/12/2006 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 1625 |
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There are no smilies because it would not be funny to find your kid had been drinking your booster. Or maybe you think it would. One less extra chemical lying around the house seems a good thing to me. At least you took your speed glue out when you played but boosters are likely to be kept at home.
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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But you have other glues at home, you have a bottle of Drano, you have Windex, you have bottle of cognac (I presume) etc etc. You keep them away from your kids, correct? then why are you not doing the same with the booster? |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
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JKC
Gold Member Joined: 11/12/2006 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 1625 |
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I do, but when you have kids using them. Kids with younger brothers and sisters. How many bottles of this stuff will there be around the world.
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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People only try to circumvent or bypass the rules, when the rules are bad - when they don't make sense, when they are confusing. For the rule to be a really good rule, it has to comply with a few simple mini-rules a) rule must be clear and comprehensible, it cannot give cause to different conflicting interpretations b) rule must be more or less easily enforceable c) rule must make sense and be logical d) rule cannot be overreaching, too wide (possibility of abuse) but it shouldn't be extremely narrow as well When these mini-rules are broken, people break rules and often not because they want to cheat but because they are confused by interpretations, because they don't feel that the bad rules are important or even help the game etc etc. I am not saying, let's break the rules - I am just explaining the underlying causes. You can see cases like that in everyday life all the time - people breaking speed limit on the highways, people not respecting some strange regulations introduced in their condos etc.
This is an example of a bad rule because it is a) unclear (some modifications are certainly allowed), b) too wide (because on the face of it, it disallowes breathing, wiping, cutting topsheet etc), c) illogical (because it is simply not needed, after 30 years fo speedgluing there is no extraordinary circumstances which would require this rule now)... I say, get rid of this rule right now in its entirety, there is no need even to change it. |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
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nicefrog
Platinum Member Joined: 06/12/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2398 |
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Table tennis players as a rule a very honourable people, no ones going to go out and break rules just for the sake of winning, that's my opinion anyway. Everone knows you can't used glue and tuners anymore so we can focus our efforts on stopping the ball growing any bigger!:) which is the reason Joe Public starting using speed glue in the first place!
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beeray1
Premier Member Joined: 07/03/2008 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 5169 |
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I dont know how this works out, but i heard something about the DHS #1 intensifier still being negotiated, i dont know why this would be, but i used some last night for 2 hrs and it seemed to work really well. Maybe theres that???
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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I didn't see any ITTF communications talking about speed-glues. It seems that somehow, strangely enough, ITTF thinks that water-based (VOC-free) speedglues are OK, but they are intent on banning tuners/boosters even if they are VOC-free. Go figure... I can only assume that ITTF is under impression that VOC-free speedglues do not work as good as tuners/boosters do and therefore there is no need to ban them. Now, what kind of logic is that? (but then again, it's just a guess on my part) |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
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nicefrog
Platinum Member Joined: 06/12/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2398 |
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Oh well Jim, it makes no difference to me either way, I've never used it so never became reliant on it. The only thing that can change for me is that a few players will come back a bit in spin and speed but I doubt it makes as big a difference as people say it does, it's not as drastic as a ball change and I've had to live through that. If I can do that you can learn to adapt to no glue
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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I don't care that much whether they ban it or not - I will probably even benefit from the ban a little bit. I am just very much generally opposed to the illogical and very disruptive policies of ITTF... |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
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nicefrog
Platinum Member Joined: 06/12/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2398 |
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Well I agree with that, I hate (strong word maybe) the ITTF, the sport gains little if nothing from them being around, it's my opinion that it's gone backwards ALOT in the last 25 years |
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sebas-aguirre
Silver Member Joined: 05/28/2008 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 808 |
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did anyone stop to think that maybe just maybe brands like butterfly or stiga etc etc etc really want tuners to be banned?
i mean, instead of using a "sriver el" with a tuner on a "petr korbel" you will have to use a "tenergy" with an "amultart" blade and change the rubber more frequently... regarding the actual prohibition there are a couple of things: -if there is no actual rule that prohibits tuners then everyone is allowed to use them. -if the rule is somehow fuzzy, then you should ask ittf for some clearance on what is and what is not prohibited (you i mean the people that play ittf tournaments). -if there is a rule that prohibits their use but there is no actual way of detecting it, then it's up to each player to decide. it would be the same as passing a red light with your car. even if nobody sees you and corrects you, that doesnt make a wrong a right. |
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nicefrog
Platinum Member Joined: 06/12/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2398 |
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Someone from here allready wrote to the ITTF, they replied and said anything that modifies the rubber is illegal, even the Chinese national teams spit I think :D
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NoFootwork
Silver Member Joined: 10/27/2006 Location: Dark side Status: Offline Points: 692 |
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This letter is posted on USATT web site: http://www.usatt.org/news1/2008Letter_to_PlayersBeijing.pdf
ITTF wrote a poorly worded rule and now seem to have provided an interpretation of that rule by the chairman of the ITTF equipment committee. ITTF is the international governing body of table tennis. They create the rules and have the power to take the game in any direction they wish to do so based on their rules and interpretations. Looks like they are trying to figure out ways to enforce their broader view in terms of what is banned. If boosters, etc. are banned now (sure seems that way to me) and there currently isn't a way to detect them, then it should be up to the player's integrity not to cheat. Golf is based on player's integrity and counts on players penalizing themselves whether or not they broke a rule on purpose.
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sebas-aguirre
Silver Member Joined: 05/28/2008 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 808 |
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if it came down to a point where it depends on each player to control himself, it would be something really funny.
rivals saying to each other "hey man you tuned that rubber!" "no i havent, what are you saying?" "yea man you have!! that prrruipi prrruipi sound!" "prrruipi prruipi your grandma!" "oucchh!! |
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