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Butterfly amicus 3000 plus HELP!!!!

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petermoo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote petermoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Butterfly amicus 3000 plus HELP!!!!
    Posted: 03/05/2010 at 3:22pm
I thought I had a defect in my Amicus 3000s which has not been alternating (from ball 1 to ball 2 to ball 3 etc.)so I bought a new oscillator box from Butterfly NA only to discover its doing the same thing.
I called them but the robot guy wasn't there.
If I press the step button it will move to the next step but it will not do it in normal sequence.
How do I get the robot to move in sequence from ball to ball???
One guy at Butterfly told me there must be some button to hold down for it to go into oscillating mode but I cant find it!
Please help.
Petermoo
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benfb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/06/2010 at 1:39am
At last!  A thread I can post in without worrying about getting dragged into some name-calling slugfest.  I have quite a bit of experience with the Amicus, so let me give it a try.
 
First question: what exactly do you mean by oscillation?  the Amicus doesn't oscillate the way the Newgy does.  In stead, it goes to each programmed shot.  For example, suppose you want it to hit balls alternative between the left and right corners (emulating the oscillation mode from the Newgy).  For ball A, you give it a certain spin (maybe plus 3), then a certain speed (11), then set the distance slider (6).  On the right hand side of the control panel are the left-right slider controls.  So you set the A slider to 3 on the right.  Then you set the B ball: same speed, spin, distance.  Then set the B left-right slider to 3 on the left.  Finally, you need to push the A and B buttons to turn on the A lights (there are four A lights and you only need one on) and also to turn on one B light.  Now, with this, you should get balls hitting alternative corners but never in the middle.  Is this what happens, or something else?
 
It seems to me the critical question is, do you have one or more lights lit under the A knob and also under the B knob?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote petermoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/06/2010 at 7:53am
Thanks for replying.
My problem is not so basic. I have been successfully using the robot for two years now and I have used it to do all kinds of sequencing eg. Falkenberg, left to fight etc.
Let me try to give you a better description.
let us say you are programming the falkenberg 2 balls to the BH and one wide FH. You hold down ball A (2 lights ) and ball B (1 light).
The robot starts delivering ball A forever and never switches to ball B. If you press STEP the robot switches to ball B (FH) and just keeps delivering ball B at which point it just keeps sending out ball B forever.
I thought my robot had gone defective and bought a new controller and to my jaw dropping surprise, it keeps doing this!
Could it be some setting to tell the robot to enter multi (different) ball mode vs same ball mode?
Is there something mechanical on the robot that signals back the main box (ball one delivered , move to ball 2)?
Thanks again for reading this.
Looking forward to your comments.
Petermoo
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ybok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/06/2010 at 12:06pm
I've got a problem with my Amicus also (see below) but my thoughts on your problem are:
 
 - The manual stepping between balls works
 - The programmed stepping doesn't work
 
so I would agree that the problem would be in the controller.  But the new controller exhibits the same problem.  Unfortunately, I have no idea how the signal to the shooting end to switch balls differs between manual and programmed.  When you solve the problem, please post it.
 
 
 
My problem is that (sometimes) the head position for the A ball is incorrect.  The B, C, D balls are always positioned correctly.  When this situation occurs, I turn off the shoot button, select the A ball and can see that the shooting head does not track the position slider - the shooting head for BC&D balls always immediately track the position slider.  It is very frustrating because the A ball is ALWAYS used.  I'm assuming that it is the controller - any thoughts about this problem?  I bought this Amicus 3000+ reconditioned and it is still in the warranty period but since the problem is intermittant and I wonder how quickly it can get resolved.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/06/2010 at 12:52pm
I'm going to research both of these problems and let you know what I find out.  It may take me a week or so.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote petermoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2010 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by benfb

I'm going to research both of these problems and let you know what I find out.  It may take me a week or so.

Ok. On closer observation I have discovered that the ball A light is always on.
With balls B, C and D I can turn off the lights but ball A seems always to be on.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2010 at 12:25pm
OK, I have one answer so far:
 
LED Ball A always lights or flashes in case of robot type Amicus 3000.  Ball A can be switched off only in case of the Amicus 3000Plus when another ball (B,C or D) lights.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote petermoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2010 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by benfb

OK, I have one answer so far:
 

LED Ball A always lights or flashes in case of robot type Amicus 3000.  Ball A can be switched off only in case of the Amicus 3000Plus when another ball (B,C or D) lights.

I discovered this also.
My first controller was for the 3000 plus and it appears the guy sent me an older controller.
But this cannot be the answer as the old amicus3000 was behaving in the same manner (unable to switch to ball B and C it keeps delivering A ball regardless of which other light is on.
For sure the problem is not in the controller or in its settings. It must be on the robot itself.
Petermoo
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Post Options Post Options   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2010 at 7:31pm
I'm still looking into the rest of the questions.  That was just all the answer I had so far. 
 
Switching from a 3000+ control box to a 3000 control box is certainly a drop down.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2010 at 7:49pm
I do own an Amicus 3000 (not the + one...).  i
It works like a charm even though it misses a couple knobs (no big deal as controls all work fine).
It is true that Ball A is always on. By default.
I tried to mess with it to reproduce petermoo problem but I could not. If a new controller did not fix the problem we must think that the robot itself does not aknowledge the sequence changing signal it receives even though the step signal (that I use a lot in the design and save of routines) sent by the controller is interpreted correctly.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote metalone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2010 at 8:18pm
If the control box did not fix the issue, then the  box needs an external signal to let it know that it went to the requested position and now it can move to the next step when commanded to do so. If the required position is not know, it will not command it to move - most control systems use an external known reference before allowing a mechanical device to move in auto.
I would look for a switch that maybe broken or not making contact.
Gave up listing, too many changes.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote petermoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2010 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by metalone

If the control box did not fix the issue, then the  box needs an external signal to let it know that it went to the requested position and now it can move to the next step when commanded to do so. If the required position is not know, it will not command it to move - most control systems use an external known reference before allowing a mechanical device to move in auto.
I would look for a switch that maybe broken or not making contact.

Agreed.
The Butterfly NA guy told me he sent the query to the factor and is awaiting their response.
I cant find any mechanism that sends back a signal (ball A gone send ball B) I speculate it could also be a broken pin in the harness or a bad contact (any ideas?)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2010 at 11:43pm

OK my precedent post was so useless...Maybe not this time:
I purchased at the recycle pc parts store extension chords (total cost $4) to have the control box near me (only pain is right-left controls are inverted). However I can't screw the connectors to the control box as there are no holes in the box for the connectors' side screws. Since I let the control box rest on those connectors sometimes they will slightly disconnect.
What I am getting at is the following: when the cables are not firmly connected to the control box the robot can act weird: it can completely stop or have some function(s) disabled.
Please let me know if you observe a change by holding firmly the connectors together after starting your routine.
If that theory is right I doubt both connectors are guilty. So do not try to push both of them at once; I foresee trouble trying that :).  I would hold the control box (well in place in its frame) from the top -fingers in places right above the connector where no button is pushing down- and push the connector you are troubleshooting upward.
 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote metalone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2010 at 1:05am
Originally posted by petermoo

Originally posted by metalone

If the control box did not fix the issue, then the  box needs an external signal to let it know that it went to the requested position and now it can move to the next step when commanded to do so. If the required position is not know, it will not command it to move - most control systems use an external known reference before allowing a mechanical device to move in auto.
I would look for a switch that maybe broken or not making contact.

Agreed.
The Butterfly NA guy told me he sent the query to the factor and is awaiting their response.
I cant find any mechanism that sends back a signal (ball A gone send ball B) I speculate it could also be a broken pin in the harness or a bad contact (any ideas?)
I don't have a 3000, so it is difficult to tell you where to check, but if it is waiting for a return signal for a ball sent or robot position, there will be wires going to the sensor or switch.  Try and follow the wiring harness and check where the wires split from the main cable, some will go to the motors and others to sensors.  Sorry couldn't help more.
Gave up listing, too many changes.
Blade - Yes
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Post Options Post Options   Quote superjet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2010 at 11:25am
Run your control box to the Robot without the $4 extension cable.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2010 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by petermoo

Originally posted by metalone

If the control box did not fix the issue, then the  box needs an external signal to let it know that it went to the requested position and now it can move to the next step when commanded to do so. If the required position is not know, it will not command it to move - most control systems use an external known reference before allowing a mechanical device to move in auto.
I would look for a switch that maybe broken or not making contact.

Agreed.
The Butterfly NA guy told me he sent the query to the factor and is awaiting their response.
I cant find any mechanism that sends back a signal (ball A gone send ball B) I speculate it could also be a broken pin in the harness or a bad contact (any ideas?)
 
Here is what I have for you: the problem appears to be in signaling from the base.  Dismount the 12 poles cord that comes from the bottom
part of the robot and check whether all the solderings are on their right place or not.

In case everything's OK with these wires, then the optical signal "CNY 70" - found in the bottom part of the robot - is  probably damaged, so it should be replaced. (see the attached photo)  This part is seldom damaged so it is glued in the aluminium moulding. You can buy this part ("CNY 70") cheaply in the US, but replacement would take advanced skill.  The alternative is to send in the base for repair.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2010 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by ybok

I've got a problem with my Amicus also (see below) but my thoughts on your problem are:
 
 - The manual stepping between balls works
 - The programmed stepping doesn't work
 
so I would agree that the problem would be in the controller.  But the new controller exhibits the same problem.  Unfortunately, I have no idea how the signal to the shooting end to switch balls differs between manual and programmed.  When you solve the problem, please post it.
 
 
 
My problem is that (sometimes) the head position for the A ball is incorrect.  The B, C, D balls are always positioned correctly.  When this situation occurs, I turn off the shoot button, select the A ball and can see that the shooting head does not track the position slider - the shooting head for BC&D balls always immediately track the position slider.  It is very frustrating because the A ball is ALWAYS used.  I'm assuming that it is the controller - any thoughts about this problem?  I bought this Amicus 3000+ reconditioned and it is still in the warranty period but since the problem is intermittant and I wonder how quickly it can get resolved.
 
And I have some information for you, too.  First, if you truly have a 3000+, then the A ball shouldn't always be used; that's only true for the 3000.  On the plus model, you can turn on B, C, and D balls while leaving A off.  Second, the slide potentiometer for A is most likely broken and needs to be replace.  A competent electrical repair shop should be able to do this easily.  The alternative is to send the entire control box in for repair or to purchase a new control box (maybe buy Petermoo's extra?  New control boxes are $400/280 Eur give or take).
 
Let me know if this helps.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote metalone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2010 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by benfb

Originally posted by petermoo

Originally posted by metalone

If the control box did not fix the issue, then the  box needs an external signal to let it know that it went to the requested position and now it can move to the next step when commanded to do so. If the required position is not know, it will not command it to move - most control systems use an external known reference before allowing a mechanical device to move in auto.
I would look for a switch that maybe broken or not making contact.

Agreed.
The Butterfly NA guy told me he sent the query to the factor and is awaiting their response.
I cant find any mechanism that sends back a signal (ball A gone send ball B) I speculate it could also be a broken pin in the harness or a bad contact (any ideas?)
 
Here is what I have for you: the problem appears to be in signaling from the base.  Dismount the 12 poles cord that comes from the bottom
part of the robot and check whether all the solderings are on their right place or not.

In case everything's OK with these wires, then the optical signal "CNY 70" - found in the bottom part of the robot - is  probably damaged, so it should be replaced. (see the attached photo)  This part is seldom damaged so it is glued in the aluminium moulding. You can buy this part ("CNY 70") cheaply in the US, but replacement would take advanced skill.  The alternative is to send in the base for repair.
Good find, the CNY70 chip is used to trigger when the output is blocked, so I am assuming it is used to indicate when a ball is shot?  If you think you can replace the chip, I could see if I can find one and mail it to you.  Links to the datasheet and online store where you can buy one are below.  To verify if the chip is bad , you can also measure the voltage or current accross the emmitter (pins A and C) and collector current accross the detector (pins C and E).
CNY70 datasheet
 
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Gave up listing, too many changes.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2010 at 7:12pm
Correction to my earlier post: the cable is 15 poles, not 12.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote petermoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2010 at 9:25pm
The plot thickens.
The Butterfly people obviously sent me the wrong controller.
My old box is a 3000+ while the new one is a 3000!
I don't think this should cause any problems should it?
I will check the wiring on the robot to see if there are any open circuits.
Petermoo
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2010 at 12:34am
i hope they will honor their name after doing such a mistake.
I suggest you complain about it let them repair the robot.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2010 at 12:37am
also do not open anything it would mean you messed with the system and they would have an excuse not to take their responsibilities.
Complaining about the fact they delivered something wrong that messed the system up is the way to go from here.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2010 at 1:36am
Originally posted by petermoo

The plot thickens.
The Butterfly people obviously sent me the wrong controller.
My old box is a 3000+ while the new one is a 3000!
I don't think this should cause any problems should it?
I will check the wiring on the robot to see if there are any open circuits.
Petermoo
 
Well, right box or not, you've already established that the problem is not the controller and the places to look for a fix aren't in the controller either.  On the other hand, the 3000+ controller has more features than the 3000 controller, such as the ability to memorize 99 routines.  How could you not notice that before?  If they sent you the wrong box, I'd call them and ask for the right one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote petermoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2010 at 11:50am
Originally posted by benfb

Originally posted by petermoo

The plot thickens. The Butterfly people obviously sent me the wrong controller. My old box is a 3000+ while the new one is a 3000! I don't think this should cause any problems should it? I will check the wiring on the robot to see if there are any open circuits. Petermoo

 

Well, right box or not, you've already established that the problem is not the controller and the places to look for a fix aren't in the controller either.  On the other hand, the 3000+ controller has more features than the 3000 controller, such as the ability to memorize 99 routines.  How could you not notice that before?  If they sent you the wrong box, I'd call them and ask for the right one.


I did notice the differences in the box but did not attribute that to the wrong box being sent. I initially thought it might just be an older box of the same model but I really should have noticed.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2010 at 3:00am
Originally posted by petermoo

I did notice the differences in the box but did not attribute that to the wrong box being sent. I initially thought it might just be an older box of the same model but I really should have noticed.

Thanks
 
So it turns out that the cost of a new base unit is about the same as the cost of a control box.  Knowing that the control box isn't your problem, and that they sent you the wrong one anyway, i would suggest you see if they'll let you exchange that control box for a new (or refurbished) base unit. 
 
That would be the most cost effective solution.  Otherwise, you've either got to buy a new base unit (which leaves you with an extra control box) or try the tricky electronics fix.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/31/2010 at 12:47am
Sooo, did everyone fix their problems with their Amicus robots?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ybok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/31/2010 at 9:16am
benfb,
 
Thanks for your investigation, you seem to be well versed in the Amicus.  My problem still exists but since it is still under warranty I have notified Butterfly and they are looking at the problem.
 
Thanks again!
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