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Why IS Tenergy different? |
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APW46 
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 Topic: Why IS Tenergy different?Posted: 10/14/2010 at 5:59pm |
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It Is, there is no doubt, I play with it, I have tried everyrthing else, why is tenergy just out there on its own, what is the technology? anyone know? I know the terms 'spring sponge' and all that, but what is it? a secret? |
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skstv2010
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Joined: 02/28/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 173 |
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Posted: 10/14/2010 at 6:26pm |
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little magical people in the sponge push the ball back at 1000x the regular pace of any other rubber. ;)
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Neo TG3 + Ebonholz V ST + Sriver G3
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Heimdallalso
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Posted: 10/14/2010 at 6:51pm |
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NEXY Lissom st 85g
fh/ Andro Impuls Speed max bh/ Palio Flying Dragon 1.8 |
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skstv2010
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Posted: 10/14/2010 at 6:53pm |
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LOL Heimdallalso
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Neo TG3 + Ebonholz V ST + Sriver G3
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jpenmaster
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Posted: 10/14/2010 at 8:08pm |
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They used crushed diamonds in the sponge and gold dust on the top sheet that is why it is $65 dollars a sheet
 . It is the porous sponge they use no one has been able to copy it yet.
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OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
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pushchop
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Posted: 10/14/2010 at 8:18pm |
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They stole the idea from this pot scrubber, as I've mentioned on OOAK. Notice the porous yellow sponge? Somebody should try gluing rubber to some and tell us the results!
Also, somebody should try washing dishes with their T05 sponge. Might work well!  Edited by pushchop - 10/14/2010 at 8:21pm |
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smiths9312
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Posted: 10/14/2010 at 8:28pm |
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They use the horns from dead unicorns. |
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pnachtwey
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Posted: 10/14/2010 at 8:31pm |
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I think it is the spring sponge that is springy in two dimensions. One is in the normal ( perpendicular ) direction but the real trick is how the top sheet and sponge stretch across the surface of the paddle when brush looping and then spring back. There is more to the spin than just friction. It doesn't take that much force to make the rubber grip the ball. If there was just static friction involved the spin on the ball would be limited to the tangential paddle speed. However, the ball must be stretching the rubber across the face of the rubber and then the rubber returning to its normal position pushes the ball just a little more. I think it is a lot more in the case of T05. Take a ball and rub it across the rubber of a couple of paddles. You don't need to push the ball into the rubber very hard before all of them, if they aren't anti, will create enough friction that the ball will not slide across the paddle. I did this and wondered why one rubber was spinnier than the other. I estimate that the paddle exerts a force of about 4-5 lbf or 20 N for a couple of millisecond when in contact with the ball. If you apply 4 to 5 lbf or 20N the ball will not slide across the paddle. One of the engineers here said it was the stretching of the rubber and snapping back that causes the extra spin. In another thread JRSDallas said the same thing. I can think of no other reason because I simply don't see enough difference in the grippiness ( is that a word? My spelling checker doesn't think so but it likes tackiness ) or tackiness between the rubbers to explain the difference. Without the tangential spring effect we just couldn't get the spin on the ball that we do. It makes me wonder about all this talk about how hard or soft the sponge is when the spring may be more important. T05 is not soft nor hard but seems to spin well. I also wonder about tacky rubbers being all that good if they don't have the tangential spring effect. Some how T05's spring effect seems to work well both normally ( perpendicular ) and tangentially to the paddle.
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tpgh2k
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Posted: 10/14/2010 at 8:52pm |
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i remember the days when wiggie actually said that tenergy was crap
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www.youtube.com/gsutabletennis
Timo Boll Spirit FL H3 Blue Sponge Black FH Tenergy 64 Red BH |
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APW46
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Posted: 10/14/2010 at 8:55pm |
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Edited by APW46 - 10/14/2010 at 8:57pm |
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APW46
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Posted: 10/14/2010 at 8:59pm |
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we all make mistakes.......
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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davidzou
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Posted: 10/14/2010 at 9:00pm |
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the sponge is red......that alone should be enough for all of us to want one.
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riker71
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Posted: 10/14/2010 at 9:04pm |
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Of course it is a secret.. the engineers at Butterfly are simply way ahead of those at all the other TT companies presently. The Jelly like sponge of Tenergy is rather genius.
Edited by riker71 - 10/14/2010 at 9:08pm |
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Stratus Powerwood
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Carbon TT
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Posted: 10/14/2010 at 9:22pm |
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My dad and I were just theorizing about this subject the other day. A hypothesis of ours was that BTY's chemical engineers have designed the chemical composition of the topsheet to specifically interact with celluloid composite materials (i.e. balls). This would surely be a scientifically feasible idea in this day and age of technology.
The best example I can think to demonstrate this is by placing one of those static cling rubber protectors on a sheet of Tenergy. It is difficult to get it to stay on the rubber surface without totally falling off. This is especially unusual because protector sheets are made of such a smooth slick surface which makes them even more likely to adhere. The Tenergy topsheet does not interact with the plastic of the protector at all, but when it comes in contact with a ball....we all know how that goes.
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Primorac Carbon
MX-P | EL-P |
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Baal
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Posted: 10/14/2010 at 9:57pm |
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The first sheet of T05 I tried and I thought it was crap too. Didn't try again for almost a year. The trick for me was to sort of ease into it via T64. Now I can't play with anything else. Or more correctly, it might take a little time to unlearn all the tenergy stuff.
I have no idea what makes it what it is, but I think a lot has to do with the top sheet. |
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Re1Mu2R3
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Posted: 10/15/2010 at 2:22am |
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Lol lol lol!! And unicorn blood for red dye...  |
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friendship
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Posted: 10/15/2010 at 7:39am |
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ort the sponge. sponge allows for sinking like really soft producing strong spin and arc with beautiful control, yet maintaning speed and directness like hard enough rubber...combination which hardly can be combined in same rubber...in fact it cannot...except in tenergy...ahhh...
sh*t, it just happened in my pants
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nicefrog
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Posted: 10/15/2010 at 8:06am |
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APW46, I recently used tenergy and found it to be by far the most easy rubber to use that I've tried. I felt it was a little too fast for a beginner or near beginner but for a competent player its about as easy as the game is ever going to be. For me as a first time user of it who's used a lot of other rubbers I thought the trick to tenergy was how the rubber becomes progressively meaner the harder you hit. It's almost electric motor linear in the distance it flys and the throw angle can be anywhere from very high on slow shots, but at the point where the sponge starts to be very loud it flys extremely low, all that is 100% controllable and easily done.
Unlike some other people I didn't find the spin on full pace shots to be spectacular at all and less than some other rubbers but it definitely makes more spin than anything else on little wristy shots, much more spin there. I thought that perhaps it makes the game too easy? it's very hard to miss hit anything, I don't think I missed a single shot with it. Anyway I can see why people are using it because it would be a big advantage for any player that's at a little above average level. I don't feel like I need to use tenergy right now but if beating higher level players that are using it was critical to my life then I don't think I would have any other choice
Edited by nicefrog - 10/15/2010 at 8:08am |
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bozbrisvegas
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Posted: 10/15/2010 at 10:18am |
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Now - I was trying to come to this with a different angle.
Before tenergy I tried lots of rubbers and found that the original Bryce was for me that kind of "why is Bryce different?"... It was the thick topsheet that could produce the forward catapult like a slingshot. Of course I am talking glue. But I get a slightly similar feeling out of tenergy that I didn't find in any rubbers released from other companies after 05 was released. It is not enough to create greater dwell, because that will slow the shots down too much. But to create greater dwell and then still have great catapult is what that thick butterfly topsheet was kind of famous for. And I am not talking about the bryce speed series or others in that kind of thin topsheet style. What is it that makes it different? It is that thicker catapult which draws the bow back a bit longer before it gets triggered out.
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icontek
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Posted: 10/15/2010 at 11:47am |
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I think it's tied to do "jelly" like effect.
Just think about the whip motion with a relaxed arm and then mimic it in the sponge/topsheet interaction. Even if the arm does not whip, the equipment will? |
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APW46
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Posted: 10/15/2010 at 12:03pm |
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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melarimsa
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Posted: 10/15/2010 at 12:09pm |
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Never played with Butterfly before. I play for 5 years tt, and I tried the other day. T64 on BH, and I love it :) Will stick with it, it is different, how ? Now sure :)
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hungga
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Posted: 10/15/2010 at 12:26pm |
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It's the speed. You're addicted to it.
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:: EJ level 1 ::
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Best99
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Posted: 10/15/2010 at 10:53pm |
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Anyone has to mention the dinamism this rubber has!
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Blade: Timo Boll ALC 92 g.
Forehand: Tenergy 05 2.1 mm. (black) Backhand: Tenergy 05 2.1 mm. (red). Perfect loops |
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stiltt
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Posted: 10/16/2010 at 12:43am |
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hello people,
I think tibhar genius is right there. I love that rubber and it gives me more confidence on all my shots. look at the pictures I made a while back: the sponge is so porous. http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37000&PID=455154&title=decision-time#455154 I'd say the secret is how those big hard bubbles spring back. The power of tenergy, genius and other porous sponge based rubbers resides I believe in the pressure it takes to press on those bubbles and have them spring back the desired way (brutally? softly? ). We have so many factors like bubble size and thickness of bubbles' walls; speed at which the go back to normal when pressure has been applied...the faster is not necessarily the best for speed. I think Tenergy has a porous sponge that springs back in a more aggressive harmony with the blade: after the the ball has been kicked back by the blade, the sponge now fires back; with traditional sponge, the work of the sponge on top of the blade has less kick. Note: I wonder if we'll see sometimes in the future a sponge with bigger bubbles close to the blade and smaller bubbles close to the topsheet). I bet it won't take long before everybody gets its own sponge close to tenergy and then the hurricane sheets will be back on track  tickling bty.A bit off topic: I want to underline that Genius gives me so much speed and spin in all opening and kill loops and makes me feel much safer on smashes than tenergy. The arc is lower so what? the spin is there and it lands on the table; the speed is plenty; almost too much in max on a faster blade. My good friend tibhar genius!!! I wonder why I do not see more people using it. The throw is so frank and clear it gives a sensation of total control (I use it on an acoustic). Tenergy can send a ball anywhere with a bad follow through; Tibhar Genius will forgive more those shy shots. I can't wait to read more about Genius users. |
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friendship
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Posted: 10/16/2010 at 7:32am |
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tibhar nimbus performs great when new, few of my colleagues play with it on both FH and BH. still it stays easy to play but loses on spin after some time so it is not equally dangerous to opponent. while tenergy stays dangerous
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petermoo
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Posted: 10/16/2010 at 9:20am |
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I think Tenergy is different mainly because of the price.
Brilliant marketing strategy based around getting speed glue banned and then getting contracted players to endorse it including the Timo. Question: Did you notice how many people switched to using the black tenergy on their forehand when Timo switched? watch now as they switch back to red and you will see the massive influence he has. Why is the TBS blade so popular? Do you think it would be as good with a different name? The truth is a lot of people prefer Japanese rubbers, myself included and after the ban there were not many alternatives to Tenergy , even from Butterfly , your choice was Bryce speed or the tenergys. Nittaku was caught napping, Yasaka wasn't ready etc. The exceptionally high price point creates a feeling of value "if it costs so much, it must be good" another brilliant step on Butterfly's part. Some guy at HiFu tried the same thing with the purple Blue Whale3, now if only he could get Timo to use it. Tenergy is a good rubber if you are willing to work with its weaknesses: high throw, sensitivity to incoming spin, too mushy, weight ,non linearity at higher speeds, but then again thats true of almost any rubber. The difference with Tenergy is that most devotees are more than willing to adjust their game so that they can use Tenergy, the rubber of Timo Boll. Now let me clear my inbox as I prepare to wear out the predictable attacks from the religious tenergy tea party right for my little piece of blasphemy here..... Oh no! here comes Boz! Petermoo, |
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APW46
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Posted: 10/16/2010 at 10:34am |
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Well I use tenergy and I gon't give a sh*t about Timo Boll, I do care about the price though, but to make out its not different (it has totally different sponge) is like being a member of the flat Earth society.
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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peter79
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Posted: 10/16/2010 at 11:20am |
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I just wonder why the chinese top player don't use Tenergy on Forehand....
They prefer to boost H3 than Tenergy... Is it because of the non linear behavior when hitting it hard? |
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Andro Wanokiwami AO Offensive 83 gr
H3 National Orange 40 deg 2.2 Baracuda Max 182 Gr |
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davidzou
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Posted: 10/16/2010 at 11:38am |
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chinese rubbers are more linear and low throw so they can have an edge when attacking against foreign players who use their high throw rubbers. Also its the rubber that most of them grew up on, its hard to switch off.
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APW46 wrote: