Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - what kind of sponge thickness?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login
tabletennis11.com

what kind of sponge thickness?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
ninglei23 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/14/2011
Location: Philippines
Status: Offline
Points: 474
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ninglei23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: what kind of sponge thickness?
    Posted: 04/03/2011 at 9:25am
I am wondering of what sponge thickness it should be for the FH?
Yinhe V-14
FH:Xiom Vega Pro
BH:Donic Baracuda
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
TTboy07 View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner
Avatar

Joined: 02/15/2011
Location: Philippines
Status: Offline
Points: 61
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TTboy07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 9:43am
well it depends. if u developed ur fh already and rely on loops then get mas thickness. if you like having more control get 1.8mm or 2.0mm.
Back to Top
Dafydd393 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/13/2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 299
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dafydd393 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 9:46am

Originally posted by ninglei23 ninglei23 wrote:

I am wondering of what sponge thickness it should be for the FH?

Theres too many variable to give a definite answer, however most defenders will use 1.0mm-1.5, allrounders 1.8mm and attackers 2.0mm +

As I said above though, there are many factors to consider when choosing sponge thickness, style or play, ability, blade used etc

Blade - Ma Lin Extra Offensive FL
Fh - Boost TC 2.0mm
Bh - Boost TC 2.0mm
Back to Top
ninglei23 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/14/2011
Location: Philippines
Status: Offline
Points: 474
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ninglei23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 9:55am
I use iolite and I am a looper in my forehand..
Yinhe V-14
FH:Xiom Vega Pro
BH:Donic Baracuda
Back to Top
Dafydd393 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/13/2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 299
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dafydd393 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 1:43pm
Seeing as the Iolite is a quick blade, I wouldn't personally go over 2.0mm. Are you still using Calibra?
Blade - Ma Lin Extra Offensive FL
Fh - Boost TC 2.0mm
Bh - Boost TC 2.0mm
Back to Top
GeneralSpecific View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/01/2010
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 2809
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 1:55pm
I think the majority of rubbers that are labeled as MAX are 2.5mm which is too thick for me. My maximum thickness is 2.3mm, but if the only thickness options are 1.8mm, 2.0mm, or MAX(2.5mm) I would choose 2.0mm. If the options are something like 1.8mm, 2.0mm, or 2.2mm, then I would choose 2.2mm.


Edited by GeneralSpecific - 04/03/2011 at 4:28pm
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge
Back to Top
smackman View Drop Down
Assistant Moderator
Assistant Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 07/20/2009
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 3264
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

I think the majority of rubbers that are labeled as MAX are 2.5mm which is too thick for me. My maximum thickness is 2.3mm, but if the only thickness options are 1.8mm, 2.0mm, or MAX(2.5mm) I would choose 2.0mm. If the options are something like 1.8mm, 2.0mm, or 2.2mm, then I would choose 2.2mm.
I would think that Max would be 2.1 -2.2  otherwise the top sheet would be too thin as it has to have the 4mm total thickness or less
Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website
Back to Top
AnthonyTT View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 02/09/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 315
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnthonyTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 8:52pm
I think 2.2 sponge is great. When you first get a thicker sponge you'll find inconsistency and missed shots but after a week or so, you'll find your shots more lethal. Aka I believe short term getting highest sponge available for a rubber is bad but once adjusted to, it becomes a great advantage.
Back to Top
TheRobot99 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/21/2010
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 915
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheRobot99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 9:08pm
Personally, I always go for max thickness as I have a offensive minded game. I also don't go for blades that are too fast so I can control the extra speed from the rubber's thicker sponge.
Ross Leidy Custom, DHS Hurricane III Neos, Nittaku Nodias

Xiom Fuga, Globe 999 National 39, Nittaku Nodias

JOOLA Torre All+, DHS Hurricane II #19 Sponge, Galaxy Moon 38

PTTC VP - 2011-12
Back to Top
Hookshot View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 07/24/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1797
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 9:25pm
Control on what kind of stroke? It makes a difference.

Thick sponge might reduce control on pushing or blocking while increasing control on loops.
IF you have "good strokes", max gives more control on loops. More spin means more control. Max sponge gives max spin. Spin is what brings the ball back to the table on loops, (plus gravity) Less spin, the flatter the trajectory, the harder to hit the table.

The effects of spin are stronger than gravity. Chop smash a ball and it will curve UP overcomming gravity. Combine gravity and topspin, you have max arc on the ball bringing it back down to the table. I call that control.
 
Like most things, there is a trade, more control on loops, less on the short game. If your strokes are not developed, Max sponge makes everything harder.  Smile
Back to Top
TheRobot99 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/21/2010
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 915
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheRobot99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 9:43pm
I used Express 2 and managed to get a pretty tight short game after learning to soften my touch a TON. I have Moon Soft Max coming in the mail soon, so I should be fairly good with that too.

However, I do prefer to attack more often than not, so my short game is mostly trying to get a weak return so I can begin applying pressure (or even outright kill the ball).
Ross Leidy Custom, DHS Hurricane III Neos, Nittaku Nodias

Xiom Fuga, Globe 999 National 39, Nittaku Nodias

JOOLA Torre All+, DHS Hurricane II #19 Sponge, Galaxy Moon 38

PTTC VP - 2011-12
Back to Top
icontek View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar
This is FPS Doug

Joined: 10/31/2006
Location: Maine, US
Status: Offline
Points: 5222
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 9:47pm
Some good points by hookshot as usual.

Thicker sponge is more loop friendly. If the majority of your successful shots are loops, then 2.0 or thicker makes sense. If you play a game that is predominantly hitting / blocking / countering 2.0 or thinner makes sense.

Max sponge is only "faster" in that it lets you make more topspin, which allows you to take more powerful strokes and still have it arc to the table.
US1260.RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42
Back to Top
ninglei23 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/14/2011
Location: Philippines
Status: Offline
Points: 474
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ninglei23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 10:48pm
Dafydd393 yes,I am still using calibra..
Yinhe V-14
FH:Xiom Vega Pro
BH:Donic Baracuda
Back to Top
ninglei23 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/14/2011
Location: Philippines
Status: Offline
Points: 474
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ninglei23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 10:50pm
AnthonyTT but what about iolite?what is the better sponge thickness for it?I am a looper and I want some control but still good for loops
Yinhe V-14
FH:Xiom Vega Pro
BH:Donic Baracuda
Back to Top
silverhair View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/13/2009
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1452
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by ninglei23 ninglei23 wrote:

I use iolite and I am a looper in my forehand..

But you are still a developing player and not at even an intermediate level.  Therefore, it would be more advisable to use 1.5mm, or at lest not greater than 2.0mm.  A softer sponge will typically provide a bit more control so look for that combination.  Donic Desto F3 Big Slam 2.0 will provide a lot of spin with good control.  

You might also consider getting a slower blade that has more control than the Ioilite.  That will help your developing backhand.  The bonus is that a slower blade will help increase dwell time resulting in more spin.  


Back to Top
bluebucket View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 02/20/2011
Location: 16
Status: Offline
Points: 2882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 11:49pm
It takes a few years to develop a loop to the point where you are stronger than a 2.0mm so just be honest with yourself about how strong the FH is and go from there, I wouldn't use less than 1.8mm on FH for even a beginner looper but don't go over 2.0 until you are very strong with that stroke
Back to Top
icontek View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar
This is FPS Doug

Joined: 10/31/2006
Location: Maine, US
Status: Offline
Points: 5222
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 11:53pm
it's pretty clear from the marketing, and the folks who rave about calibra and many of its variants that Stiga designed this rubber for top league and club players...as in "people just below pro/am level"...

in spite of the fact that catalogs and resellers always push "latest, fastest, greatest" there's a reason that companies still produce rubbers targeted at intermediate players.
US1260.RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42
Back to Top
ninglei23 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/14/2011
Location: Philippines
Status: Offline
Points: 474
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ninglei23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2011 at 7:58am
I have a good forehand loop but it is not yet that consistent,what about that?still 2.0?
Yinhe V-14
FH:Xiom Vega Pro
BH:Donic Baracuda
Back to Top
silverhair View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/13/2009
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1452
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2011 at 9:02am
Originally posted by ninglei23 ninglei23 wrote:

I have a good forehand loop but it is not yet that consistent,what about that?still 2.0?

My recommendation stands.  IMO, you should consider Donic Desto F3 Big Slam 1.8mm or 2.0mm.  F3 Big Slam is not the fastest horse in the stable but it is so much fun to use.  If you're going to use that Iolite, then you really need something like F3 Big Slam to slow the blade and give you more dwell.  It will help you develop better and give more spin.  
Back to Top
pnachtwey View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/09/2010
Location: Vancouver, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 2035
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnachtwey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2011 at 4:20pm
Does anybody play with 1.8mm inverted rubber besides maybe Icontek?

I was going to put 1.5mm Reflectoid on my blocker paddle but I saw an old 1.5mm Mark V that I used last summer and put it on as an experiment.  I learned to loop with the Mark V 1.5 last summer but it sure is a lot more difficult looping with Mark V 1.5mm than doing it with Mark V max.  I can still do spiny loops with 1.5mm but it takes more of a brushing motion to match the Mark V max.  I am willing to try the Mark V 1.5mm again because I have it and I don't really loop that much when I play with my blocker.  I stay close to the table and didn't feel like I gave up much when I played last night switching from 2mm Reflectoid to 1.5mm Mark V.  Everything is a trade off.  I hope to gain more control close to the table where I spend most of my time at the expense of looping.   From what I have seen so far there is far more close to the table play than looping duels.

I have another paddle with Mark V max and 802-40 1.8mm SP for faster play back from the table a bit.  I know that comparing 1.5mm to max is kind of extreme.  My SP seems to be faster than the Mark V max.

BTW, my old Mark V 1.5mm was cut for my Samsonov Alpha which has a small head.  I found that I could stretch the Mark V enough to make it fit on the 729 Bomb without using any paraffin oil.
 
Back to Top
silverhair View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/13/2009
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1452
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2011 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

Does anybody play with 1.8mm inverted rubber besides maybe Icontek?

 

There is a player in our club that uses 1.8mm (actually one of many).  I think he's currently using Vario Big Slam 1.8mm on both sides.  Used to use Desto F3 Big Slam 1.8mm.  He's a pretty good player, U.S. ~ 2100 now.  He only plays for fun, no tourney play.  Mid-court two-winged looper.  Used to play in the second tier European League.  Pretty amazing the amount of spin he could generate.  He was my coach and training partner for years.  

I used to play with 1.8mm Vario.  It wasn't until I started playing with Big Slam that I moved to thicker sponge.   

So yeah, other's play with 1.8mm.  




Back to Top
Pioneer View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/03/2010
Location: Egypt
Status: Offline
Points: 866
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pioneer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2011 at 8:17pm
The weight of two Max rubbers is a problem for me, so I'd rather sacrifice the speed factor in favor of weight Wink
Blade: Timo Boll ZLF ST
My Feedback

Back to Top
bluebucket View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 02/20/2011
Location: 16
Status: Offline
Points: 2882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2011 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

Does anybody play with 1.8mm inverted rubber besides maybe Icontek?
 

Before the 70's when the loop started to become the dominant stroke in table tennis. 1.5mm and less was the normal rubber for even very advanced club players. In fact very good loopers normally used 1.5mm Mark V or Tornado, you were pretty much an extremist if you used 1.8mm at that time. Because the ball is heavier now things have changed a bit but still every 1st or 2nd year jnr and every intermediate player (up to 1400 US) that has a bit of a clue about them is using 1.8mm FH rubbers in my club even some really smart ones use 1.5mm on the BH. If you are not looping all the time then or a loop is not where you win the majority of your points then you will never ever need more than 1.8mm, if you are almost always chopping then 1.5mm is more than enough for most people. This also gives you the control you need to be a good chopper and win rallies by persistence and not making mistakes, you will always out chop a max rubber if you are using 1.5mm. I know a guy that uses 1.0 or 1.2?mm on the FH and is seriously way over 2000 US must be more like 2400 and he's happy to loop with that setup, I have to wonder if he got that good regardless of the rubbers or if such a control setup helped him get that good


Edited by bluebucket - 04/04/2011 at 9:12pm
Back to Top
ninglei23 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/14/2011
Location: Philippines
Status: Offline
Points: 474
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ninglei23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 5:47am
silverhair_do i have to change my rubber?can I just stay with calibra lt sound 2.0 or 1.8?because I am really getting used to it it's fast but I can control it.because I don't want to adjust anymore
Yinhe V-14
FH:Xiom Vega Pro
BH:Donic Baracuda
Back to Top
atv View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/18/2011
Location: Shanghai China
Status: Offline
Points: 1136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 7:02am
I haven't played with any inverted rubber with less than 2.0mm thickness, because with 1.8mm or 1.5mm looping is still possible but a lot less powerful at mid distance from the table.

However I have been using SP a lot in the past, i have tried 1.5mm, 1.8mm and 2.0mm, 2.0mm being the best for off+ play, close to the table and fast attack with little brushing (it can't be called as looping), 1.5mm is good for block/push and has some weird spin against opponent, but not as easy to adapt to as 2.0mm. 1.8mm is somewhere in between.

The LPs i have used with no sponge or 0.5/0.6mm are really the chopper's choice, most of the time I don't even know what kind of spin it is myself after chopping the ball back.
YEO
FH: 729 08 ES
BH: Focus III Snipe
Senkoh-1
FH: H3 Comm
BH: 755
Back to Top
silverhair View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/13/2009
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1452
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 8:31am
Originally posted by ninglei23 ninglei23 wrote:

silverhair_do i have to change my rubber?can I just stay with calibra lt sound 2.0 or 1.8?because I am really getting used to it it's fast but I can control it.because I don't want to adjust anymore

As a developing player, you want to have equipment that's easier to use and control.  It's just not in your best interest to continue to use think fast spinny rubber and a OFF+ blade at the level you have described for yourself.  

You might be surprised the amount of control and consistency you may get by switching to a slower blade and rubber.  Calibra?  Why not try something like Mark V or Desto F3 Big Slam?  They're not as sexy, but play well and is a step in the right direction.  But you also need to get a slower blade with more control.  A Donic Waldner AllPlay is a great blade at a good price.  Teamed with Mark V 1.5mm or similar like Desto F3 Big Slam 1.5mm or 1.8mm would be a great set-up.  

My recommendation stands.  It's more important to develop, particularly your backhand, than to use fast equipment that's hard to control.  

You'll adjust.    
Back to Top
icontek View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar
This is FPS Doug

Joined: 10/31/2006
Location: Maine, US
Status: Offline
Points: 5222
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 10:01am
Originally posted by ninglei23 ninglei23 wrote:

I have a good forehand loop but it is not yet that consistent,what about that?still 2.0?


Newsflash:
If it's not consistent, it costs you more points than it wins, and therefore is not actually good. a good stroke is one that wins you points consistently, either outright, or by setting up easy kills. In either event, it needs to be reliable.

Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

Does anybody play with 1.8mm inverted rubber besides maybe Icontek?


There is no doubt that I *should* be using 1.8mm rubber, but I am simply too cheap to spend the extra $15 on each sheet of Acuda S3. For some reason, I've spent my TT Budget on a bunch of different blades and rubbers that I am not using rather than biting the bullet.

Here's a gentleman who plays with 1.5mm Mark V on his backhand. He is a two winged looper and has a lethal brush loop from the backhand. He pushes to your backhand to get you to push back, and then opens with a very very spinny BH loop. If your return is weak, he FH smashes or loopkills it. This may come as a surprise, but his BH loop has much more spin than many of the similarly rated players who use modern "high tension rubbers" for the same stroke. Why? Very thin contact and very good technique. I'm sure he could use 1.8mm or 2.0mm for "more spin" but he realizes that it would cost him push and block control from that wing. For him, having the short game and being able to set up that BH loop is critical. His game revolves around winning the point at the 5th and 6th balls and the sequence goes like this when serving 1)serve to BH 2)push 3)BH loop 4)block or counter 5)smash or loopkill or like this when receiving 1) opponent serve 2) push heavy to BH 3) opponent pushes
4) BH loop 5)opponent block or counter 6)smash or loopkill.

Quote
I was going to put 1.5mm Reflectoid on my blocker paddle but I saw an old 1.5mm Mark V that I used last summer and put it on as an experiment.  I learned to loop with the Mark V 1.5 last summer but it sure is a lot more difficult looping with Mark V 1.5mm than doing it with Mark V max.  I can still do spiny loops with 1.5mm but it takes more of a brushing motion to match the Mark V max.  I am willing to try the Mark V 1.5mm again because I have it and I don't really loop that much when I play with my blocker.  I stay close to the table and didn't feel like I gave up much when I played last night switching from 2mm Reflectoid to 1.5mm Mark V.  Everything is a trade off.  I hope to gain more control close to the table where I spend most of my time at the expense of looping.   From what I have seen so far there is far more close to the table play than looping duels.


Yup. Looping with 1.5mm will force you to have good loop technique, while giving you the extra touch for over the table play pushing/blocking/placing. It's a tradeoff and most players under US1500 including myself aren't honest with themselves or simply lack the ability to see where in the point they lost control of the rally. Frequently, that opponent who rips winners past you is doing so because you are giving him easy balls to finish.
US1260.RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 2.516 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.