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what kind of sponge thickness? |
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ninglei23
Super Member Joined: 02/14/2011 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Posted: 04/03/2011 at 9:25am |
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I am wondering of what sponge thickness it should be for the FH?
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Yinhe V-14
FH:Xiom Vega Pro BH:Donic Baracuda |
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TTboy07
Beginner Joined: 02/15/2011 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 61 |
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well it depends. if u developed ur fh already and rely on loops then get mas thickness. if you like having more control get 1.8mm or 2.0mm.
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Dafydd393
Super Member Joined: 07/13/2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 299 |
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Theres too many variable to give a definite answer, however most defenders will use 1.0mm-1.5, allrounders 1.8mm and attackers 2.0mm + As I said above though, there are many factors to consider when choosing sponge thickness, style or play, ability, blade used etc |
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Blade - Ma Lin Extra Offensive FL
Fh - Boost TC 2.0mm Bh - Boost TC 2.0mm |
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ninglei23
Super Member Joined: 02/14/2011 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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I use iolite and I am a looper in my forehand..
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Yinhe V-14
FH:Xiom Vega Pro BH:Donic Baracuda |
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Dafydd393
Super Member Joined: 07/13/2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 299 |
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Seeing as the Iolite is a quick blade, I wouldn't personally go over 2.0mm. Are you still using Calibra?
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Blade - Ma Lin Extra Offensive FL
Fh - Boost TC 2.0mm Bh - Boost TC 2.0mm |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2809 |
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I think the majority of rubbers that are labeled as MAX are 2.5mm which is too thick for me. My maximum thickness is 2.3mm, but if the only thickness options are 1.8mm, 2.0mm, or MAX(2.5mm) I would choose 2.0mm. If the options are something like 1.8mm, 2.0mm, or 2.2mm, then I would choose 2.2mm.
Edited by GeneralSpecific - 04/03/2011 at 4:28pm |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
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AnthonyTT
Super Member Joined: 02/09/2011 Status: Offline Points: 315 |
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I think 2.2 sponge is great. When you first get a thicker sponge you'll find inconsistency and missed shots but after a week or so, you'll find your shots more lethal. Aka I believe short term getting highest sponge available for a rubber is bad but once adjusted to, it becomes a great advantage.
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TheRobot99
Silver Member Joined: 10/21/2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 915 |
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Personally, I always go for max thickness as I have a offensive minded game. I also don't go for blades that are too fast so I can control the extra speed from the rubber's thicker sponge.
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Ross Leidy Custom, DHS Hurricane III Neos, Nittaku Nodias
Xiom Fuga, Globe 999 National 39, Nittaku Nodias JOOLA Torre All+, DHS Hurricane II #19 Sponge, Galaxy Moon 38 PTTC VP - 2011-12 |
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Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Control on what kind of stroke? It makes a difference.
Thick sponge might reduce control on pushing or blocking while increasing control on loops. IF you have "good strokes", max gives more control on loops. More spin means more control. Max sponge gives max spin. Spin is what brings the ball back to the table on loops, (plus gravity) Less spin, the flatter the trajectory, the harder to hit the table.
The effects of spin are stronger than gravity. Chop smash a ball and it will curve UP overcomming gravity. Combine gravity and topspin, you have max arc on the ball bringing it back down to the table. I call that control. Like most things, there is a trade, more control on loops, less on the short game. If your strokes are not developed, Max sponge makes everything harder.
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TheRobot99
Silver Member Joined: 10/21/2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 915 |
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I used Express 2 and managed to get a pretty tight short game after learning to soften my touch a TON. I have Moon Soft Max coming in the mail soon, so I should be fairly good with that too.
However, I do prefer to attack more often than not, so my short game is mostly trying to get a weak return so I can begin applying pressure (or even outright kill the ball). |
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Ross Leidy Custom, DHS Hurricane III Neos, Nittaku Nodias
Xiom Fuga, Globe 999 National 39, Nittaku Nodias JOOLA Torre All+, DHS Hurricane II #19 Sponge, Galaxy Moon 38 PTTC VP - 2011-12 |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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Some good points by hookshot as usual.
Thicker sponge is more loop friendly. If the majority of your successful shots are loops, then 2.0 or thicker makes sense. If you play a game that is predominantly hitting / blocking / countering 2.0 or thinner makes sense. Max sponge is only "faster" in that it lets you make more topspin, which allows you to take more powerful strokes and still have it arc to the table. |
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ninglei23
Super Member Joined: 02/14/2011 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Dafydd393 yes,I am still using calibra..
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Yinhe V-14
FH:Xiom Vega Pro BH:Donic Baracuda |
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ninglei23
Super Member Joined: 02/14/2011 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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AnthonyTT but what about iolite?what is the better sponge thickness for it?I am a looper and I want some control but still good for loops
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Yinhe V-14
FH:Xiom Vega Pro BH:Donic Baracuda |
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silverhair
Gold Member Joined: 07/13/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1452 |
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But you are still a developing player and not at even an intermediate level. Therefore, it would be more advisable to use 1.5mm, or at lest not greater than 2.0mm. A softer sponge will typically provide a bit more control so look for that combination. Donic Desto F3 Big Slam 2.0 will provide a lot of spin with good control. You might also consider getting a slower blade that has more control than the Ioilite. That will help your developing backhand. The bonus is that a slower blade will help increase dwell time resulting in more spin. |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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It takes a few years to develop a loop to the point where you are stronger than a 2.0mm so just be honest with yourself about how strong the FH is and go from there, I wouldn't use less than 1.8mm on FH for even a beginner looper but don't go over 2.0 until you are very strong with that stroke
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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it's pretty clear from the marketing, and the folks who rave about calibra and many of its variants that Stiga designed this rubber for top league and club players...as in "people just below pro/am level"...
in spite of the fact that catalogs and resellers always push "latest, fastest, greatest" there's a reason that companies still produce rubbers targeted at intermediate players. |
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ninglei23
Super Member Joined: 02/14/2011 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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I have a good forehand loop but it is not yet that consistent,what about that?still 2.0?
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Yinhe V-14
FH:Xiom Vega Pro BH:Donic Baracuda |
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silverhair
Gold Member Joined: 07/13/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1452 |
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My recommendation stands. IMO, you should consider Donic Desto F3 Big Slam 1.8mm or 2.0mm. F3 Big Slam is not the fastest horse in the stable but it is so much fun to use. If you're going to use that Iolite, then you really need something like F3 Big Slam to slow the blade and give you more dwell. It will help you develop better and give more spin.
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pnachtwey
Platinum Member Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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Does anybody play with 1.8mm inverted rubber besides maybe Icontek?
I was going to put 1.5mm Reflectoid on my blocker paddle but I saw an old 1.5mm Mark V that I used last summer and put it on as an experiment. I learned to loop with the Mark V 1.5 last summer but it sure is a lot more difficult looping with Mark V 1.5mm than doing it with Mark V max. I can still do spiny loops with 1.5mm but it takes more of a brushing motion to match the Mark V max. I am willing to try the Mark V 1.5mm again because I have it and I don't really loop that much when I play with my blocker. I stay close to the table and didn't feel like I gave up much when I played last night switching from 2mm Reflectoid to 1.5mm Mark V. Everything is a trade off. I hope to gain more control close to the table where I spend most of my time at the expense of looping. From what I have seen so far there is far more close to the table play than looping duels. I have another paddle with Mark V max and 802-40 1.8mm SP for faster play back from the table a bit. I know that comparing 1.5mm to max is kind of extreme. My SP seems to be faster than the Mark V max. BTW, my old Mark V 1.5mm was cut for my Samsonov Alpha which has a small head. I found that I could stretch the Mark V enough to make it fit on the 729 Bomb without using any paraffin oil. |
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silverhair
Gold Member Joined: 07/13/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1452 |
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There is a player in our club that uses 1.8mm (actually one of many). I think he's currently using Vario Big Slam 1.8mm on both sides. Used to use Desto F3 Big Slam 1.8mm. He's a pretty good player, U.S. ~ 2100 now. He only plays for fun, no tourney play. Mid-court two-winged looper. Used to play in the second tier European League. Pretty amazing the amount of spin he could generate. He was my coach and training partner for years. I used to play with 1.8mm Vario. It wasn't until I started playing with Big Slam that I moved to thicker sponge. So yeah, other's play with 1.8mm. |
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Pioneer
Silver Member Joined: 06/03/2010 Location: Egypt Status: Offline Points: 866 |
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The weight of two Max rubbers is a problem for me, so I'd rather sacrifice the speed factor in favor of weight
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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Before the 70's when the loop started to become the dominant stroke in table tennis. 1.5mm and less was the normal rubber for even very advanced club players. In fact very good loopers normally used 1.5mm Mark V or Tornado, you were pretty much an extremist if you used 1.8mm at that time. Because the ball is heavier now things have changed a bit but still every 1st or 2nd year jnr and every intermediate player (up to 1400 US) that has a bit of a clue about them is using 1.8mm FH rubbers in my club even some really smart ones use 1.5mm on the BH. If you are not looping all the time then or a loop is not where you win the majority of your points then you will never ever need more than 1.8mm, if you are almost always chopping then 1.5mm is more than enough for most people. This also gives you the control you need to be a good chopper and win rallies by persistence and not making mistakes, you will always out chop a max rubber if you are using 1.5mm. I know a guy that uses 1.0 or 1.2?mm on the FH and is seriously way over 2000 US must be more like 2400 and he's happy to loop with that setup, I have to wonder if he got that good regardless of the rubbers or if such a control setup helped him get that good
Edited by bluebucket - 04/04/2011 at 9:12pm |
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ninglei23
Super Member Joined: 02/14/2011 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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silverhair_do i have to change my rubber?can I just stay with calibra lt sound 2.0 or 1.8?because I am really getting used to it it's fast but I can control it.because I don't want to adjust anymore
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Yinhe V-14
FH:Xiom Vega Pro BH:Donic Baracuda |
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atv
Gold Member Joined: 03/18/2011 Location: Shanghai China Status: Offline Points: 1136 |
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I haven't played with any inverted rubber with less than 2.0mm thickness, because with 1.8mm or 1.5mm looping is still possible but a lot less powerful at mid distance from the table.
However I have been using SP a lot in the past, i have tried 1.5mm, 1.8mm and 2.0mm, 2.0mm being the best for off+ play, close to the table and fast attack with little brushing (it can't be called as looping), 1.5mm is good for block/push and has some weird spin against opponent, but not as easy to adapt to as 2.0mm. 1.8mm is somewhere in between. The LPs i have used with no sponge or 0.5/0.6mm are really the chopper's choice, most of the time I don't even know what kind of spin it is myself after chopping the ball back. |
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YEO
FH: 729 08 ES BH: Focus III Snipe Senkoh-1 FH: H3 Comm BH: 755 |
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silverhair
Gold Member Joined: 07/13/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1452 |
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As a developing player, you want to have equipment that's easier to use and control. It's just not in your best interest to continue to use think fast spinny rubber and a OFF+ blade at the level you have described for yourself. You might be surprised the amount of control and consistency you may get by switching to a slower blade and rubber. Calibra? Why not try something like Mark V or Desto F3 Big Slam? They're not as sexy, but play well and is a step in the right direction. But you also need to get a slower blade with more control. A Donic Waldner AllPlay is a great blade at a good price. Teamed with Mark V 1.5mm or similar like Desto F3 Big Slam 1.5mm or 1.8mm would be a great set-up. My recommendation stands. It's more important to develop, particularly your backhand, than to use fast equipment that's hard to control. You'll adjust. |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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Newsflash: If it's not consistent, it costs you more points than it wins, and therefore is not actually good. a good stroke is one that wins you points consistently, either outright, or by setting up easy kills. In either event, it needs to be reliable.
There is no doubt that I *should* be using 1.8mm rubber, but I am simply too cheap to spend the extra $15 on each sheet of Acuda S3. For some reason, I've spent my TT Budget on a bunch of different blades and rubbers that I am not using rather than biting the bullet. Here's a gentleman who plays with 1.5mm Mark V on his backhand. He is a two winged looper and has a lethal brush loop from the backhand. He pushes to your backhand to get you to push back, and then opens with a very very spinny BH loop. If your return is weak, he FH smashes or loopkills it. This may come as a surprise, but his BH loop has much more spin than many of the similarly rated players who use modern "high tension rubbers" for the same stroke. Why? Very thin contact and very good technique. I'm sure he could use 1.8mm or 2.0mm for "more spin" but he realizes that it would cost him push and block control from that wing. For him, having the short game and being able to set up that BH loop is critical. His game revolves around winning the point at the 5th and 6th balls and the sequence goes like this when serving 1)serve to BH 2)push 3)BH loop 4)block or counter 5)smash or loopkill or like this when receiving 1) opponent serve 2) push heavy to BH 3) opponent pushes 4) BH loop 5)opponent block or counter 6)smash or loopkill.
Yup. Looping with 1.5mm will force you to have good loop technique, while giving you the extra touch for over the table play pushing/blocking/placing. It's a tradeoff and most players under US1500 including myself aren't honest with themselves or simply lack the ability to see where in the point they lost control of the rally. Frequently, that opponent who rips winners past you is doing so because you are giving him easy balls to finish. |
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