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The best frictionless LP

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweetstrike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 7:22pm
How does Palio CK531A compare to Pogo? I have read the palio plays a lot like a frictionless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 7:55pm
Palio is very fast and not that easy to play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by roar roar wrote:


I'm just saying if you want to be a blocker, you can still do it even if they eliminate long pips altogether.



Long pips takes a lot more pace off the ball than normal inverted and makes continuous attacking much harder.. Inverted blocking is a totally different game and nearly impossible at higher levels.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thaidog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Frictionless antis are: Dr. Neubauer Gorilla, Dr. Neubauer A-B-S, Dr. Neubauer Grizzly, Toni Hold New Anti 40.
Butterfly Super Anti doesn't have a lot of friction either but is not as slick as the others. Friendship 804 is the grippiest anti..
I'm actually going to receive a Toni Hold New ANti 40 today in the OX version (extremely thin .2 mm sponge.)


Did not know this! So really there is no flat line friction level for all rubbers... it is only for LP's? That is stupid! Why not just make a rock hard, super slick anti sheet... it would work just as good if not better!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2011 at 7:30am
Originally posted by Thaidog Thaidog wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Frictionless antis are: Dr. Neubauer Gorilla, Dr. Neubauer A-B-S, Dr. Neubauer Grizzly, Toni Hold New Anti 40.
Butterfly Super Anti doesn't have a lot of friction either but is not as slick as the others. Friendship 804 is the grippiest anti..
I'm actually going to receive a Toni Hold New ANti 40 today in the OX version (extremely thin .2 mm sponge.)


Did not know this! So really there is no flat line friction level for all rubbers... it is only for LP's? That is stupid! Why not just make a rock hard, super slick anti sheet... it would work just as good if not better!
The REGULATION is for any type of pips out rubber. However, it is ONLY a REGULATION for manufactorers to abide by but there really isn't a rule that requires the rubber to be below the friciton limit at the table.. The rule that applies at the table is that a rubber may not be treated and that applies to both, inverted and pips out rubbers. (and that includes boosting and adding friction too)
So, if a rubber loses grip due to a natural process (i.e. use, aging etc.) and is below the friction limit, there REALLY is no rule that would make it illegal to use that rubber as long as it does not have significant damage or is not uniform.. However, that applies to both, inverted and pips out rubber.
 
2.04.07.01  Slight deviations from continuity of surface or uniformity of colour due to accidental damage or wear may be allowed provided that they do not significantly change the characteristics of the surface. 
 
 
What that basically says is that ONLY if there is no damage or deviations from continuity of surface or uniformity of color, the "significant" change of characteristics part does not even come into play. If you have a UNTREATED rubber that is UNIFORM and has no damage, there is no specific requirement of how much friction it may have.
Even if the significant change part would come into play, there is no clear definition of what "significant" means. Furthermore, if you do not have a new sheet of the same rubber to compare it with, how would you objectively know if it significantly changed?


Edited by Pushblocker - 04/06/2011 at 7:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thaidog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2011 at 9:18am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

So, if a rubber loses grip due to a natural process (i.e. use, aging etc.) and is below the friction limit, there REALLY is no rule that would make it illegal to use that rubber as long as it does not have significant damage or is not uniform..


But wasn't there an LP that was banned after it was found out that it lost it's friction level really fast?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2011 at 10:04am
Originally posted by Thaidog Thaidog wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

So, if a rubber loses grip due to a natural process (i.e. use, aging etc.) and is below the friction limit, there REALLY is no rule that would make it illegal to use that rubber as long as it does not have significant damage or is not uniform..


But wasn't there an LP that was banned after it was found out that it lost it's friction level really fast?
I assume that you are refering to TTMaster Insider and Swing Back IF.. Those rubbers were banned because ITTF claimed that the factory was after-treating those rubbers before selling them to retailers and customers. Rumors were that they put them in the microwave for the rubbers to lose friction.. What I've heared is that ITTF acquired sheets from retailers and compared them to the sheet that was originally submitted by TTMaster and they did find a noticeable difference between the sheets. TTMaster claimed that they did not do anything with those rubbers and it went to court.. TTMaster was unable to afford the lawsuit and it was dropped eventually.. Now, TTMaster is out of business.


Edited by Pushblocker - 04/06/2011 at 10:05am
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In reality there is no such thing as frictionless rubber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2011 at 12:15pm
To me, the hardest "frictionless" pip to play against was the original super special.  Slicked tips and grippy sides made for a very random ball.  Later the argument became "why would we allow the rubber to have two different surfaces."  So DrN had to treat the whole sheet by spraying all over.  These were even slicker (inferno, boomerang) but less random.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2011 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

To me, the hardest "frictionless" pip to play against was the original super special.  Slicked tips and grippy sides made for a very random ball.  Later the argument became "why would we allow the rubber to have two different surfaces."  So DrN had to treat the whole sheet by spraying all over.  These were even slicker (inferno, boomerang) but less random.
I assume that you are refering to the rubber that was originally titled: HALLMARK Dr. Neubauer Super Special
I tried that rubber and played with it for a little while but later went to Toni Hold Virus II as I really didn't like the hard pips on the Super Special..
 


Edited by Pushblocker - 04/06/2011 at 12:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweetstrike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2011 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

To me, the hardest "frictionless" pip to play against was the original super special.  Slicked tips and grippy sides made for a very random ball.  Later the argument became "why would we allow the rubber to have two different surfaces."  So DrN had to treat the whole sheet by spraying all over.  These were even slicker (inferno, boomerang) but less random.
Does anybody know what spray they were using for the treatment?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2011 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

To me, the hardest "frictionless" pip to play against was the original super special.  Slicked tips and grippy sides made for a very random ball.  Later the argument became "why would we allow the rubber to have two different surfaces."  So DrN had to treat the whole sheet by spraying all over.  These were even slicker (inferno, boomerang) but less random.
I assume that you are refering to the rubber that was originally titled: HALLMARK Dr. Neubauer Super Special
I tried that rubber and played with it for a little while but later went to Toni Hold Virus II as I really didn't like the hard pips on the Super Special..
 


This garbage only lasted me less than ten minutes... Pips started to break in the center after a few hits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2011 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by sweetstrike sweetstrike wrote:


Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

To me, the hardest "frictionless" pip to play against was the original super special.  Slicked tips and grippy sides made for a very random ball.  Later the argument became "why would we allow the rubber to have two different surfaces."  So DrN had to treat the whole sheet by spraying all over.  These were even slicker (inferno, boomerang) but less random.
Does anybody know what spray they were using for the treatment?
I've read that they used fiberglass (epoxy). It could have also been scratch resistent clear coat paint. DuPont used to make a really good one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duc Loi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2011 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by sweetstrike sweetstrike wrote:


Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

To me, the hardest "frictionless" pip to play against was the original super special.  Slicked tips and grippy sides made for a very random ball.  Later the argument became "why would we allow the rubber to have two different surfaces."  So DrN had to treat the whole sheet by spraying all over.  These were even slicker (inferno, boomerang) but less random.
Does anybody know what spray they were using for the treatment?
I've read that they used fiberglass (epoxy). It could have also been scratch resistent clear coat paint. DuPont used to make a really good one.


Pushblocker:

Have you tried the new Chinese LP <XAMENY 25>  it sounds very good for only$5 U.S.

As I recall I played with you 2 times when you came to my Club.  correct me if I am wrong, I won the first time, the second time when I played with you it was late 8:30 pm  that is the time I have have to be home for dinner.  I played with rush.  I really likes to play you again if I have the chance my rating now is 2218 just a little less than yours 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2011 at 12:04am
Originally posted by Duc Loi Duc Loi wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by sweetstrike sweetstrike wrote:


Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

To me, the hardest "frictionless" pip to play against was the original super special.  Slicked tips and grippy sides made for a very random ball.  Later the argument became "why would we allow the rubber to have two different surfaces."  So DrN had to treat the whole sheet by spraying all over.  These were even slicker (inferno, boomerang) but less random.
Does anybody know what spray they were using for the treatment?
I've read that they used fiberglass (epoxy). It could have also been scratch resistent clear coat paint. DuPont used to make a really good one.


Pushblocker:

Have you tried the new Chinese LP <XAMENY 25>  it sounds very good for only$5 U.S.

As I recall I played with you 2 times when you came to my Club.  correct me if I am wrong, I won the first time, the second time when I played with you it was late 8:30 pm  that is the time I have have to be home for dinner.  I played with rush.  I really likes to play you again if I have the chance my rating now is 2218 just a little less than yours 
I haven't tried those pips before.. Where can I get them? I always like to try new ones! Are the pips soft? (I only like soft pips for my game).
Yes, Duc, we played 2 times.. The first time (when I was rated 2160), you beat me 3:2 after I was leading something like 8:3 in the 5th... The 2nd time when I was rated 2225, I beat you... I would also like to play you again for sure.. I love to play fellow long pips blocker except for William as he always kicks my butt (just kidding. Love to play him, I just can't find a way to beat him due to his short pips attacks and frequent twiddling which drives me crazy).. I should be there before that Los Angeles Open.. I'll definetely play at your club before the event!


Edited by Pushblocker - 05/01/2011 at 12:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2011 at 1:09am
Just got back from our LATTA Saturday Giant Open Round Robin... Duc made the semi's before running out of gas and lost to Raymond Wang, who in turn beat 2300-rated Justin Nguyen in the finals... Raymond is an incredible hardbatter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2011 at 7:44am
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Just got back from our LATTA Saturday Giant Open Round Robin... Duc made the semi's before running out of gas and lost to Raymond Wang, who in turn beat 2300-rated Justin Nguyen in the finals... Raymond is an incredible hardbatter.
I can see why Raymond beats everyone playing a long pips blocking style. I'd bet that Peter Chen wouldn' even get a game off him. I probably wouldn't either..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duc Loi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/02/2011 at 1:44pm
Xameny-25 is a soft LP I have the spec sheet however, it is in Chinese.  the pip is 2.2 cm height and the rubber sheet dimension is 22 x 23 cm.  Bill Lin said it's illegal for over 1.8 cm in height.  I'll have one soon.     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/02/2011 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by Duc Loi Duc Loi wrote:

Xameny-25 is a soft LP I have the spec sheet however, it is in Chinese.  the pip is 2.2 cm height and the rubber sheet dimension is 22 x 23 cm.  Bill Lin said it's illegal for over 1.8 cm in height.  I'll have one soon.     
I don't think that this rubber is authorized... Checked on the ITTF list and there is no such rubber..
If it's not on the list, I don't see the point of trying a rubber that I can't legally play..
I think that you are taling about 1.8 and 2.2 mm and not cm.. 2.2 cm long pips would be pretty huge...LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tennisfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/02/2011 at 3:03pm
I would like to try this rubber as I only play recreationaly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chris.b40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/02/2011 at 3:32pm
@Pushblocker  :   There is a player in Califonia his first name is Lonnie I met him at a tournament in Utah  he is considered amongst the best pips blockers out there,do you know him,have you played him,he was with Richard Mcafee a lot of the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duc Loi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/02/2011 at 4:17pm
Xameny 25 is a brand New LP made in China,  you can go to Taobao.com check it out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duc Loi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/02/2011 at 4:21pm
the height is 2.2 mm & the dimension is 22 x 23 cm.  On the rubber sheet it print ITTF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 8:01am
Originally posted by chris.b40 chris.b40 wrote:

@Pushblocker  :   There is a player in Califonia his first name is Lonnie I met him at a tournament in Utah  he is considered amongst the best pips blockers out there,do you know him,have you played him,he was with Richard Mcafee a lot of the time.
 
I know Lonnie! I'm sure that you are talking about Lonnie Dean.. I know him since about 10 years ago when he came to my club in South Florida at the time.. Met him again in 2009 at the San Diego Open.. He is one of the best Long pips blockers in the country.. He used to be over 2200 but has dropped a little bit in rating.. He is not easy to play, especially due to his short pips on the backhand.. Very nice guy too!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 8:10am
Originally posted by Duc Loi Duc Loi wrote:

the height is 2.2 mm & the dimension is 22 x 23 cm.  On the rubber sheet it print ITTF
That ITTF is printed on it doesn't mean that it's a legal rubber.. I can't find it on the approved rubbers list..  I doubt that with 2.2mm pips, it would be approved..
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Dean is the name ...that's him he was using a Rendler blade with DtecS and was kicking some butt.I played against him and that was a walk over as he utterly destroyed my attacks with well placed and timed blocks off the volley,undoubtbly the best pips blocker I ever came up against. IMHO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 9:36am
Originally posted by chris.b40 chris.b40 wrote:

Dean is the name ...that's him he was using a Rendler blade with DtecS and was kicking some butt.I played against him and that was a walk over as he utterly destroyed my attacks with well placed and timed blocks off the volley,undoubtbly the best pips blocker I ever came up against. IMHO
Lonnie is definetely one of the best LP blockers. Very difficult to play against, especially if you play long pips yourself..  I hope that I'll get to play him when I will be in SoCal in September for the Los Angeles Open..
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Think I'll play in the LAX open this September,look forward to seeing you all there.I still think that DtecS is still one of the best if not the best Lp on the market.It surely will not suite everyone so" best" here is subjective and is solely based on my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 10:21am
Originally posted by chris.b40 chris.b40 wrote:

Think I'll play in the LAX open this September,look forward to seeing you all there.I still think that DtecS is still one of the best if not the best Lp on the market.It surely will not suite everyone so" best" here is subjective and is solely based on my opinion.
 
I'm not too crazy about the new DTecS with the shorter pips.. The main difference for me is trajectory.. I want the ball to come off the rubber low and the new DTecS  does no longer have that low trajectory.. I will have to look for alternatives eventually.
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Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by chris.b40 chris.b40 wrote:

Think I'll play in the LAX open this September,look forward to seeing you all there.I still think that DtecS is still one of the best if not the best Lp on the market.It surely will not suite everyone so" best" here is subjective and is solely based on my opinion.
 
I'm not too crazy about the new DTecS with the shorter pips.. The main difference for me is trajectory.. I want the ball to come off the rubber low and the new DTecS  does no longer have that low trajectory.. I will have to look for alternatives eventually.
 
 Sorry,I was referring to the old DtecS as well,I played with the new one for three days and I do not like it,I was asking around on the forum for some sheets of the old one but no luck as yet still have some left though. I am taking your advice and looking at Phoenix.
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