recieving the tomahawk serve

if its short you have two options depending on the ability of the opponent;

1) Flick it, if the ball is high enough
2) Push the ball back, angling your bat to assist in returning to desired direction

he's just using side spin with his FH

I am just having hard time recieving it because it's new to me..BTW thanks for all the advice

My 2c. I use the tomahawk serve ~85% of the time and have a good idea of the strengths and weaknesses of it. There are different types of tomahawk serves for a start. Mine is very different to say, Ovtcharov's, version (he is the one who made me start using it a few years ago). He uses a larger action and attempts to generate much more spin than I do. I prefer to go for more precision with placement and smaller and more subtle spin variations.

I've found over the years that a right hander returning a right hander's tomahawk serve with his forehand finds it much easier to flick fast cross-court than down the line. The sidespin on the ball sort of draws the ball downwards and it can be difficult to flick fast down the line without going into the net. The returner will have to be less aggressive on the flick and go for a higher throw / trajectory over the net.

I've found it effective to guard the wide forehand for fast flicks as I don't have to worry as much about fast flicks down the line. The same is generally true about long pushes as well. The most important thing as the server is that I am trying to get my tomahawk serve low over the net as often as possible. As soon as the serve sits up too high, it becomes too easy for the opponent to flick freely, even against the sidespin/backspin variation.

If the tomahawk server is serving well (low and spiny) then a short return from the opponent can be very effective. You'll have to take the ball very soon after the bounce however and the return will sit up high if you are too late. The sidespin on the serve will make your short return very nasty to deal with for the server

I agree with mjamja that it can be effective to use the backhand flick to deal with tomahawk serves. You cut out much of the 'downwards' draw on the ball that I talked about above. However a good tomahawk server will be able to move the serve around and make it hard to cover 80% of the table with a BH flick. The returner will also have to make sure he is good at getting back to a neutral attacking position if he's going to play the BH flick from the FH side of the table.

Keep in mind that tomahawk serves will generally be used by players who favour their backhand attacks. This type of player is often weak in the pocket (crossover between BH and FH) and this can be exploited.

One example here: http://www.youtube.com/user/WeiTTTube#p/u/1/jx0OOgcEPX4

Another option is to do the serve back to the same player to see what he does lol,,,, mind you some practice will be needed

i use that serve as my main serve , its mostly side and top, but u can give dead spin and under and top, but most the time its just side and top , easy just loop it back aim for middle of table it will go to their forehand , if u want to block it aim at the back hand if they are righty and angle down a lil for the topspin

same way you would return a reverse sidespin or backhand serve.

stepping in with your backhand is the simplest thing and returning to server's backhand.

if it's topspin and/or sidespin flip it - if it's mainly backspin then push it.

This is actually a very good question, and one I find hard , as a coach to teach, mainly because the tomohawk serve is one of the best serves to disguise. I'm afraid the answer is not black and white, the answer you look for cannot be actually answered on forum. Experience of recieving it is really the only way forward, and any other answers are really not going to help you, reading the variation of the exponent is the key, but with this serve, its still tricky. As you get to be a better player, you just get better at it, that really is the truth.

Also to mention that William's advice is priceless. I mean TTEdge, not mine. I just share the same 1st name. It is not every day one can get a pro's view and advice just for the asking. We should be all ears.

Hey Mark. I've had a few matches with WLQ. The first couple were when my tomahawk was in its infancy and not very good. By the time of our match at the 2008 Olympics it had improved a lot and the spin variations were less obvious.

I think the main difference between 07 and 08 was that I increased the amount of sidespin in the serve, which then made it more difficult to read. Sidespin can be great but as BH-Man points out, it ain't nice when the opponent comes across the ball and gives it all (plus more) back! It isn't an easy technique to master however as you need a precise, thin contact and great control on the return. You'll often see top players use the technique when they serve, get a short push and then push the ball back short again - coming across the ball is one of the best ways to keep it low.

December 2007:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYNUVLB4Ygg

August 2008:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjD5ionudlw

In the Olympic match he had terrible trouble reading the serve. In the end he gave up trying to do much with it and pushed most of them long to my backhand (which suited me just fine). The tomahawk serve was the main reason I had such good chances to get into a match winning position.



Edited by ttEDGE - William - 04/26/2011 at 3:39pm

Bump an interesting thread that I desperately need help with. 

Plus aggressive returns will feel better to you even if you still miss. That will help you stay confident in the rest of your game.

Just this week I had real trouble with a fast side spin from a leftie going out to my wide forehand.

It wasn't that I couldn't return it - the trouble was trying to return it away from the guy's strong forehand. The variation was all side spin or side + top, so it was moving away from me.

I moved a little more to my forehand side to return serve which wasn't enough still. Next time I'm going to really commit to moving there and make sure I'm brushing the outside of the ball - gotta get to his backhand corner. I think it's just further proof of my struggle to move and hit a good forehand on return of serve.

To the new OP: work on your forehand loop, focus on brush contact and set up a robot to give you side spin.

wilkinru wrote: Just this week I had real trouble with a fast side spin from a leftie going out to my wide forehand. It wasn't that I couldn't return it - the trouble was trying to return it away from the guy's strong forehand. The variation was all side spin or side + top, so it was moving away from me. I moved a little more to my forehand side to return serve which wasn't enough still. Next time I'm going to really commit to moving there and make sure I'm brushing the outside of the ball - gotta get to his backhand corner. I think it's just further proof of my struggle to move and hit a good forehand on return of serve. To the new OP: work on your forehand loop, focus on brush contact and set up a robot to give you side spin.