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"Regular" vs. "Professional" Rubbers |
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TheRobot99 
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Joined: 10/21/2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 915 |
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 Topic: "Regular" vs. "Professional" RubbersPosted: 09/18/2011 at 12:22pm |
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From special experiences from some of the members in this forum, we know that pros have different versions of what we can get in a store - the professional version. We know about DHS' rubbers and some products from Butterfly (namely Tenergy) but what about any other rubbers.
Even more so, what rubber would you want a pro version of? I know I'd like a pro Thor's. |
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Ross Leidy Custom, DHS Hurricane III Neos, Nittaku Nodias
Xiom Fuga, Globe 999 National 39, Nittaku Nodias JOOLA Torre All+, DHS Hurricane II #19 Sponge, Galaxy Moon 38 PTTC VP - 2011-12 |
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djnelsen
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Posted: 09/18/2011 at 1:25pm |
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What is the rationale behind this?
Do the pros need these special rubbers in order to be on top? Why? Aren't their skills good enough? Can't make it work with plain old Tenergy? Really?
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bryce_fx23
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Posted: 09/18/2011 at 2:00pm |
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In my opinion they just boost, or tune they rubbers a lot.
The Chiniese players are useing the hardest rubbers that we can get and often they recive nice click:). They put much layers of booster thats all. Take a look of Ma Lin bat the rubbers doesnt stick well on the edges, becouse rubber is so much tensed. |
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artakwol
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Posted: 09/18/2011 at 2:04pm |
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It's just a simple marketing. If Timo Ball uses Timo Boll ALC than many TT players try to buy this blade and no sense that one, which uses Timo Ball is something like ordinary car vs Formula 1 sports car. But in the same time you need better motor to win the ride in Formula 1, whats why pro players need better blades and rubbers, created specially for their skills, to be able to bit the opponent effectively. |
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artakwol
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Posted: 09/18/2011 at 2:33pm |
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I think that it the half of the story. It's obvious that e.g. pro's rubbers differs from the rubbers which we can get from the shop. It was in the previous threads, that this special rubbers even have pro's names stamped on it, created with specifications for the pro TT player. Hurricane 3 rubbers have 4 different types- ordinary, province team, national team and for pro's personal. This is the hole truth about TT marketing 
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TheRobot99
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Posted: 09/18/2011 at 3:02pm |
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Ross Leidy Custom, DHS Hurricane III Neos, Nittaku Nodias
Xiom Fuga, Globe 999 National 39, Nittaku Nodias JOOLA Torre All+, DHS Hurricane II #19 Sponge, Galaxy Moon 38 PTTC VP - 2011-12 |
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TheRobot99
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Posted: 09/18/2011 at 3:13pm |
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So can anyone say what rubber they'd like a pro version of? Besides Tenergy and DHS's stuff lol.
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Ross Leidy Custom, DHS Hurricane III Neos, Nittaku Nodias
Xiom Fuga, Globe 999 National 39, Nittaku Nodias JOOLA Torre All+, DHS Hurricane II #19 Sponge, Galaxy Moon 38 PTTC VP - 2011-12 |
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Speedplay
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Posted: 09/18/2011 at 3:20pm |
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I don't belive the hype about pro version rubbers. Why would a manufacturer make different versions? Why not sell the pro version and charge more for it?
Speaking to a retailer who's got some insight in the business, he said that the pro version was centerpieces of the "rubber" as these have better quality. Spoke to a sponsored player about this, and he said that the only difference between his "pro" version was that he always knew exactly what hardness he got. If he bought the rubber in a shop, the hardness can vary some, but his pro versions are always the same. Things might have changed with the introduction of factory boosting, as I belive some pro's get their rubbers boosted to perform the way they like and not every one wants the same amount of boosting. |
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artakwol
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Posted: 09/18/2011 at 3:42pm |
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So they do. Hurricana ordinary costs $17, national version $55. Don't kill me please, I heard it from my well known in Armenia TT mate, may be this is wrong, but many rubbers are made in the same (e.g. butterfly) factory, just different brand names and specifications. It like the same water in different bottles and brand names- I know some examples in Armenia in this market. |
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liXiao
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Posted: 09/18/2011 at 4:18pm |
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Your story about the factory is not surprising and already well known amongst most tt players. Like certain Yasaka, Nittaku blades are made in Sweden, nittaku is making their new rubbers in the same factory as tenergy, etc. Granted, even though they are made in the same factory, they are of course completely unique rubbers, i.e. there is nothing else like spring sponge on the market, and its not like its being used on other rubbers. I know butterfly assembles, meaning they attach the rubber to the sponge, in Japan, and they make all their blades in their own factories (someone provided a nice video on the assembly process a month or two ago) The rubbers given to professionals are not necessarily different, but more often than not, hand selected by the manufacturers from a large sheet (commercial rubbers may be the odds and ends compared to the provincial and national rubbers). I'm sure most pros tune themselves, but just want the highest quality rubber. Of course some rubbers are custom made, such as Wang Hao's sriver with BS sponge.
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konnichwakid1
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Posted: 09/18/2011 at 7:51pm |
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Why do people think there is a Pro version of Tenergy? The Tenergy Boll, Mizutani, and any pro uses can be bought anywhere at anytime.
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Jun Mizutani with Tenergies
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liXiao
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Posted: 09/18/2011 at 8:04pm |
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That is simply a falsehood. Professional tenergies/all butterfly rubbers come with no package and this special stamp, along with a letter marked on the back (in this case U, I saw a professional bryce speed with an H, not sure what that might mean). Even ThaiLe said that the tenergy he was given by someone on the chinese team played much differently than the normal version.  |
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ohhgourami
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Posted: 09/18/2011 at 10:30pm |
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Stop being ignorant. Of course there are professional versions of equipment. I've tried a nice variety of it too and it is definitely different. Yes they are produced in the same factory but they play differently. Pro Tenergy feels different and has more gears (you can hit harder without it maxing out). I've tried pro Drum which has a denser sponge (plus more consistent sponge) and tackier, more consistent topsheet. I've tried a pro TBS made to Ma Long's specs; it is heavier and much denser. Other people who have tried it (without being told it is custom) found it felt and played completely different than their own store bought TBS. All of the above you can't get from regular stores.
Stop denying the truth. |
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DHS H3 Provincial untuned 40° BTY T64 210g |
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Speedplay
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Posted: 09/19/2011 at 4:41am |
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Having a balde made to fit their specs isn't the same as a pro version, since every one can get that. Might not be able to get it from Bty, but there are plenty of blade makers around who can get you a blade with the spec your require. Sure, it wont be marked as TBS, but if the construction isn't the same as TBS, then Ma Long's blade isn't a TBS, it's a custoum made blade labelled TBS, most likely for marketing reasons.
As for pro rubbers, I'm still sceptical towards this. |
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TheRobot99
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Posted: 09/19/2011 at 9:48am |
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Nobody's answered my question yet lol.
Just assume they exist. Lol. Edited by TheRobot99 - 09/19/2011 at 9:51am |
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Ross Leidy Custom, DHS Hurricane III Neos, Nittaku Nodias
Xiom Fuga, Globe 999 National 39, Nittaku Nodias JOOLA Torre All+, DHS Hurricane II #19 Sponge, Galaxy Moon 38 PTTC VP - 2011-12 |
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AndySmith
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Posted: 09/19/2011 at 10:32am |
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About the T05 Pro thing. In Butterfly's recent europe catalog, there's a whole section dedicated to Tenergy, and a quote from Timo:
"In order to stop the rumors once and for all: it is possible for everybody because I use perfectly ordinary Tenergy05 that you can buy in any shop. Also I don't add tuners or other stuff but use them as normal; this is a quality that presently only Butterfly rubbers achieve"
This could mean that Timo is one of the few pros who use standard T05, and loads of other pros have special versions with added secret sauce. But if Timo can play at that level with boggo T05, then I don't see the need for Pro versions, except to suit individual styles for individual players ("I want it 2.5deg harder" etc etc)
Or it could be a load of Butterfly marketing rubbish and Timo goes to sleep laughing every night in a specially tuned Pro Tenergy bed, and when he gets up in the morning he bounces so high he hits his head on the ceiling. Explains all of his back injuries over the years.
I've always wondered if the "Pro" Tenergies have simply been "not for resale" versions, supplied directly to sponsored players. Standard rubbers provided as part of the sponsorship deal, so in effect "free" to the player. But Butterfly doesn't want the players to just sell them on, so marks them in a special way. Kind of like how you can buy multipacks of Pepsi (other colas are available) from the supermarket and they're marked "not for individual sale". But this is just idle speculation by me, and until I see a Pro version and have a go (not likely), then I must defer to the people who have tried it out.
It's probably somewhere in the middle - slightly different hardnesses for individual players. T05 on a Spinart sponge, that kind of thing.
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bluebucket
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Posted: 09/19/2011 at 10:46am |
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I'd believe he uses a standard T05, but I wont believe it's untuned until I buy it for him and glue it on his blade myself
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AndySmith
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Posted: 09/19/2011 at 11:22am |
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What? Are you saying that Butterfly would lie to me in catalog form? Why would such a caring-sharing-non-profit organisation do something like that? I'm shocked!
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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artakwol
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Posted: 09/19/2011 at 11:27am |
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Do someone thinks that Timo uses ordinary rubbers from the shop?
It's really a marketing rubbish  Edited by artakwol - 09/19/2011 at 12:00pm |
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bluebucket
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Posted: 09/19/2011 at 11:44am |
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90% of players use Sriver don't you know
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Derf59
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Posted: 09/19/2011 at 11:47am |
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Perhaps we should speak of "different" quality. 1° You know that sponge are not made by piece of 17x17cm, it's made by larger piece and it's very difficult to have the same density in the center than from the borders. In the center, the sponge has better quality. So perhaps during the manufacturing, better pieces are reserved to "pro" and others are selled. 2° Pro players use "boosted" rubber, but they don't do it themselves, it's the factory which do this. So pro rubber are boosted, and boosted, and boosted more than 1 time. 3° Some "pro rubber" have sometimes some "specific" sponges that you can't find in shop. Ex : blue sponge of H3, try to find a H3 commercial blue sponge ;)
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bluebucket
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Posted: 09/19/2011 at 12:01pm |
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It's not so hard to find commercial H3 on blue sponge, just not common outside China
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Derf59
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Posted: 09/19/2011 at 1:02pm |
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Here it's old version of H3, I've forgotten "neo" LOL
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roundrobin
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Posted: 09/19/2011 at 3:08pm |
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If Timo can play with T05 exactly as the ones you can buy from Paddle Palace, great. It does not mean other Butterfly-using pros could too. Many finicky (read extremely picky) pros get their rubbers and paddles fine-tuned to their tastes for as long as table tennis was a competitive sport. It's naive to think Butterfly, DHS or any other brand are not doing the same to please some of their sponsored players.
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liXiao
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Posted: 09/19/2011 at 5:32pm |
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Of course I'm not saying that every single pro out there uses some special tenergy, but its obvious that special versions of rubbers exist. Its a lot more obvious in the tennis world, where most of the pros use the rackets they originally played with and changed because of marketing and or, they get sponsored by a new company, and use a "new racket" but its an older mold. One good example is Rafa nadal. His Babolat Pure Drive Cortex is much different than the commercial version. The cortex was a built in dampener that reduces vibration, but if you look at Rafa's racket, his is just PAINTED on. Professionals are always picky, because they always need to be at their best, and that might mean getting special equipment. I mean that is why Butterfly offers the Bespoke service in the first place, it is because people may like a certain handle style (lets say timo boll spirit) coupled with the design of a Korbel SK7, the composition of a MJ ZLC, and under 80g. Anything is possible, so why not get what you want?
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atv
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Posted: 09/19/2011 at 11:27pm |
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top pros use custom rubbers, simply because they can...
DHS's CNT rubbers (not the ones sold to public) are not from mass production, so DHS's rubbers have at least five categories: commercial, provincial, national (for general public), national (for general CNT members) and national (customized to players), there might be overlapping though. Not all NAT rubbers are with blue sponges, in fact there are more than 6 sponge colors. As for BTY i've only seen regular and "not for sale", not sure about whether there is other sub sections within not for sale |
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djnelsen wrote: