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What motivates someone to use short pips?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2011 at 7:32pm
I can now confirm that it is the Xtend PO that Mathias is using, as I got to look at his blade my self today.

He uses his sp in a way I thought was impossible with sp...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin_2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2011 at 7:58pm
You can definitely see his opponent misreading the spin from his FH pips side. Also I get the impression that he is BH oriented player which is his inverted side. Is this so?


Very nice rally


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2011 at 11:28pm
There was a Chinese coach who played that style here in Houston a few years back, about 2590 rating.  I played with him many times, very tricky to anticipate where he was going with his forehand, and how fast or how much spin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2011 at 11:36pm
I think that the absolute amount of spin one gets with spinny SP is not that high compared to inverted, but relative to the speed of the ball it can be extremely high, and more importantly, it is very unpredictable and often more than people are expecting (or less).  Speaking from experience, I can often spin people off the table with my BH SP side--sometimes I am not expecting it myself, it just happens, especially when I hit down the line -- and sometimes when I try to do it on purpose my opponent overestimates the spin and blocks into the net. People who think that SP are only for fast flat hitting and blocking have never really played with the stuff for any length of time.  I have long since learned to ignore coaches who say I use SP "too much like inverted".  Watch Tang Peng for awhile and you will see he hits all kinds of shots, not just flat hitting or blocking.  And it can be effective on the forehand side too, as per the Swedish player in the clips above, or Li Jiawei.  It is always bad to be unidimensional on either side.  The one thing, though, I always think at least one side should be inverted if you are a shakehands player.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnachtwey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2011 at 2:09am
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:


Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:


Don't give much reversal? Try with; don't give any reversal.

That statement is correct when referring to my 802-40 and probably similar SP.
That statement is wrong when referring to Peacekeeper 0X. There is another thread about hard bat rubbers that states that hard bat rubbers are designed to have limited spin capability.
I play with Peacekeeper 0X on my Toxic 5 hard bat. I often play against inverted players at the club with my hard bat. If I block off the bounce there will be some spin reversal. It isn't a lot but there is enough to be bothersome at times. I play with 755 0X, Pogo 0X and Talon 0X so I know what spin reversal is like with a good LP paddle for comparison.

I have also played with Peacekeeper 0X on the BH of one of my Samsonov Alphas. The spin reversal off it the Peacekeeper on the Samsonov Alpha is a little higher than that of the Peacekeeper on the Toxic 5. I think that is because the Samsonov Alpha is a faster paddle with less dwell time to stop the ball from spinning.

You guys are arguing over nit picking details. Buy and try. I think there are too many variations of SP to make general statements.
Sorry to nit pick some more, but hardbat is not really what we have been discussing here.  I can get reversal out of 1.0mm inverted rubbers too, depending on my wrist strokes.  We have been talking about standard short pips w/ sponge like the one used by He Zhiwen, Liu Guoliang etc.

If you are going to use your wrist then even T05 can continue the spin. I do it all the time with a chop block. I am talking about spin reversal or continuation by simply putting the paddle in the way.

I didn't see the SP with sponge qualifier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2011 at 2:58am
Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

I can now confirm that it is the Xtend PO that Mathias is using, as I got to look at his blade my self today.

He uses his sp in a way I thought was impossible with sp...


what blade is mathias using?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2011 at 3:00am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I think that the absolute amount of spin one gets with spinny SP is not that high compared to inverted, but relative to the speed of the ball it can be extremely high, and more importantly, it is very unpredictable and often more than people are expecting (or less).  Speaking from experience, I can often spin people off the table with my BH SP side--sometimes I am not expecting it myself, it just happens, especially when I hit down the line -- and sometimes when I try to do it on purpose my opponent overestimates the spin and blocks into the net. People who think that SP are only for fast flat hitting and blocking have never really played with the stuff for any length of time.  I have long since learned to ignore coaches who say I use SP "too much like inverted".  Watch Tang Peng for awhile and you will see he hits all kinds of shots, not just flat hitting or blocking.  And it can be effective on the forehand side too, as per the Swedish player in the clips above, or Li Jiawei.  It is always bad to be unidimensional on either side.  The one thing, though, I always think at least one side should be inverted if you are a shakehands player.


zhan jian from singapore is also tricky with SP in FH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2011 at 5:07am
Originally posted by Tinykin_2 Tinykin_2 wrote:

You can definitely see his opponent misreading the spin from his FH pips side. Also I get the impression that he is BH oriented player which is his inverted side. Is this so?
Very nice rally


I think you are right that Mathias is a bh oriented player. I think I've read some where that he begun using sp on his fh since a coach told him that his fh was to weak to make it to the top level, and, his bh is really strong.

The thing that impressed me the most with his usage of his sp was his ability to get involved in mid distance rallies with it. I'm really crappy with sp, but trying to hit mid distance loops with it would be totally impossible for me.

@BBkon, sorry, I didn't look at his blade carefully enough to see which blade it was, all I know is that it was a Yasaka blade.

Mathias is currently 7-0 in the Swdish top division, which is pretty impressive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2011 at 1:10pm
Speedplay...thanks for posting about Mattias Karlson.  I'm also a BH oriented-player that has switched to SP a couple of years ago.  My BH was always much stronger than my FH as it just didn't feel comfortable running around trying to loop everything with my FH.  I switched to SP and went up 100 pts.  I only wish I would have known to switch years ago.  I will check out some of his matches on youtube as it's hard to find players like him with SP on their FH. 
There are so many more good SPs available now that are fairly spinny and fast so I think you will see more people playing with them in the near future.  There was a chinese player at the US Open that had SP on his FH and inverted on his BH and he ended up being over 2600.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2011 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

Originally posted by Tinykin_2 Tinykin_2 wrote:

You can definitely see his opponent misreading the spin from his FH pips side. Also I get the impression that he is BH oriented player which is his inverted side. Is this so?
Very nice rally


I think you are right that Mathias is a bh oriented player. I think I've read some where that he begun using sp on his fh since a coach told him that his fh was to weak to make it to the top level, and, his bh is really strong.

The thing that impressed me the most with his usage of his sp was his ability to get involved in mid distance rallies with it. I'm really crappy with sp, but trying to hit mid distance loops with it would be totally impossible for me.

@BBkon, sorry, I didn't look at his blade carefully enough to see which blade it was, all I know is that it was a Yasaka blade.

pitty, but would  like to know something more about  SP players in sweden and their setups

Mathias is currently 7-0 in the Swdish top division, which is pretty impressive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2011 at 6:17pm
I'll see if any one in our team knows what he is playing with. Too bad I didn't think about asking him about it, cause he seems to be a really nice bloke.

Actuadave, while I agree that there seems to be several good sp out there today, I doubt we will be seeing more sp players at the highest level. As the game is today, it clearly favours the two winged loopers, and all changes that are being discussed will probably only favour them even more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2011 at 6:31pm
I'm pretty sure He's using a Ma Lin Carbon.
 
Also, from what I've seen- even with thicker sponge I've seen spectol and penguin both have a little bit of reversal, but it's only when (soft) blocking really really heavy loops that have a lot of arc that you'd usually just slap back anyway, so it doesn't matter much.  
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