hardbat on one side

Great for blocking, service return, flicks and chops. Must play close for offense so sponge pips is better to balance the FH. OX short pips offers more control than LP's. I have returned to inverted for BH after a high level player told me my BH was much more effective using inverted. I pull out the old hard bat once in awhile just for fun and change of pace.

Valor Premier offers the greatest control of all the hardbat rubbers. It is very easy to stand close to the table and chop-block loop after loop, or simply hit the ball placing your shots. Returning serves is also easier than with inverted rubbers or sponge/pips rubbers. What you do with your inverted rubber or other rubber it is up to your style. (The rubber will be ITTF approved on October 1st, 2011)

Edited by gnopgnipster - 09/24/2011 at 11:51am

smackman wrote: jeez man just help the person out and not go full on advertising your products on every post

Smackman, thank you for reading my posts. Now what is wrong with telling someone (who asks about hardbat rubber) about the best hardbat rubber on the market? If others can bring up products such as Peacekeeper, DR Evil etc. in this and other threads related to hardbat, why can I bring up a rubber which is currently the best hardbat rubber made? If you noticed I don't bring up hardbat rubber unless the thread is discussing a hardbat rubber or related hardbat product.

gnopgnipster wrote: Valor Premier offers the greatest control of all the hardbat rubbers.

???   A rubber is controllable, it does have control.
What makes this rubber more controllable if all the hard bat rubber are supposed to be pretty much the same? Lets hear some facts and not marketing fluff.

In the rubber design process there must be a series of decisions. The rubber must have a certain amount of bounce and friction. Also the pips must be with a certain length and width. Why did the designer chose the final attributes? What attributes make Premier more controllable?

Now, you have a legitimate reason to make a pitch.
I have not played with all the different hard bat rubbers like Jay has. I have only played with Peacekeeper.
I am interested because I play with Peacekeeper on a Toxic 5 and I have used Peacekeeper on the BH of my Samsonov Alpha as stated in a post above. I even play with my hard bat against inverted players and really like to use the hard bat against LP and anti players.

Want another opinion that's 100% commercial free? 

Our club (LATTA) has at least 5 of the true top-20 hardbatters in the United States.  Their overwhelming hardbat rubber of choice is the Butterfly Orthodox. 

And no, I do not work for Butterfly... I actually dislike them quite a bit as a company.

frogger wrote: I would think there would be a greater difference between OX pips vertical as opposed to horizontal than brand.

Interesting thought. If the rubbers are the same other than the pimple orientation then the pimple orientation may make a small difference. If you place you paddle flat on the table and put a ball on it then the ball will settle between 3 pips. The question now is pushing the ball which direction will take the least or most amount of force to roll the ball out between the three pips. It will take more force to push the ball directly over one pip than between the two pips. In practice the ball will not hit directly between three pips so I wonder if it makes that much difference.

roundrobin wrote: Want another opinion that's 100% commercial free?  Our club (LATTA) has at least 5 of the true top-20 hardbatters in the United States.  Their overwhelming hardbat rubber of choice is the Butterfly Orthodox.  And no, I do not work for Butterfly... I actually dislike them quite a bit as a company.

I'm not sure which players you are referring to, but my guess, if they like Butterfly Orthodox, is that these are very accomplished sponge players as well.  Many hardbat players liken the feel of Butterfly Orthodox as being almost as though it had sponge.  And many hardbat players who use the larger and more classic racket opt away from Butterfly Orthodox because it becomes relatively heavy on the larger blade.

I've not played with Valor Premium, but I've played with Reisman and the ATP "Leland" rubbers.  My understanding is that Valor Premium and those two rubbers are based on the same mold/design.  Alberto can correct me if this is not correct.  I have zero doubt that Valor Premium is a good hardbat rubber, but I haven't used it and am in no position to say much more than that - which is based on reports from others and that it has been used to win at least one Championship hardbat event.  I will add that I think it is good form when advocating a product in an online forum to clearly disclose if you have a personal or financial interest in the product. 

I use Dr. Evil, and have tried many other rubbers.  I ended up with Dr. Evil for a few reasons. 
1) It is lightweight.
2) It is low spin - with a spin output similar to the true Leyland rubbers I've tried.
3) It is cheap and usually easy to find.

I've stayed with it because it is what I've now become used to.  Other rubbers do play differently even if the difference is fairly subtle.  And since I'm still fixing and developing my game, I don't want to introduce another variable without a very good reason. At this time, I've come to the conclusion that for my style of play with hardbat against inverted players, Dr. Evil may not be the low price alternative that is seems to be.  I find I have to replace my rubber about every three months because the pips will either crack in the middle or separate at the base.  When this happens, the rubber plays differently in the areas that are breaking down.  Dr. Evil seldom sheds a pip, but its pips will degrade under constant duress. 


So perhaps another rubber like Valor Premium or Butterfly Orthodox would be more robust.  But I don't know.  I haven't played with either of those for extended periods of time. I doubt if very many people will have the problem I'm having with Dr. Evil.  But it is worth noting and considering if you hit a lot of shots with a lot of power and strong strokes.

As for the original post, sure why not play "hardbat" on one side.  If you do, keep in mind that you aren't limited to the USATT approved hardbat rubbers.  There are other spinnier options out there if you want.

At the last Nationals I ran into a guy who had Dr. Evil on his backhand.  I think he used this as his "disruptive" side.  When I showed him my hardbat with Dr. Evil on both sides, I think I perceived a slight cringe - but maybe I just imagined that.  :^)

FWIW, I'm not generally a fan of solving specific playing problems through equipment/gear changes.  I'm more of a fan of finding general approaches that serve a wider range of general needs and relying on training and practice to fix specifics.









Edited by wturber - 09/26/2011 at 2:53pm

roundrobin wrote: I'm not sure which players you are referring to, but my guess, if they like Butterfly Orthodox, is that these are very accomplished sponge players as well.  Many hardbat players liken the feel of Butterfly Orthodox as being almost as though it had sponge.  And many hardbat players who use the larger and more classic racket opt away from Butterfly Orthodox because it becomes relatively heavy on the larger blade. I am a firm believer that the highest level hardbat play can be accomplished by those who are professionally trained with short pips w/sponge the easiest.  Their transition to Orthodox is relatively painless.  As such, I don't believe a traditional hardbat rubber like Leyland is best suited for the highest level hardbat play.  David Zhuang could have won US Nationals Hardbat title with Orthodox rubber ten years straight if he cared... Just my opinion, of course.

I don't disagree with any of this.  In fact, I think most of the time the person winning the Hardbat Open at the Nationals or the US Open is more highly trained with a sponge racket of some type than with hardbat. Trevor Runyan who dominated for a few years was a sponge player first.  His hardbat training took a distant second.

Also, spinnier rubbers like Orthodox are probably better suited for winning hardbat events precisely because it offers more spin and is more "sponge-like."  Leyland or Dr. Evil would not be the best choices if winning was the priority above all else.  Leyland is the more suitable rubber if you are trying to foster a more classic style of play.  Since you can't get Leyland, I opt for Dr. Evil.  Not so much because I'm dedicated to playing a classic style (though I do work on classic techniques from time to time) but because I'm a fan of the notion of not looking toward the equipment for a spin advantage or edge.