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KTL Red Diamond? |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Posted: 05/20/2012 at 3:57am |
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Training session is tomorrow night, so will be back with news after that. |
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dual700
Gold Member Joined: 08/11/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1628 |
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Any update on KTL BP?
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Ha ha! Well, I used the same seller, and got exactly the same rubber, so that worked out quite well. Maybe one day they will stop making this version and I will only be able to get the non-tacky one.... Will be using the new BP next week at training, so will be back with news.
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dual700
Gold Member Joined: 08/11/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1628 |
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Did you get the same exact rubber or is there variation?
Same seller? Please post your findings on BP. I haven't used mine, too lazy |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Small update.
Really happy with this new version of RD on my forehand, so I ordered some more sheets for backup. Uncut, RD weighs in at 55g. Cut to the Calix, it's 39g. Very light. I also ordered ANOTHER sheet of Black Power, but this time made sure I got the new KTL one with "Golden Cake Sponge + Strong Friction Rubber" printed on the front of the package. This one doesn't seem as radical a departure from the old LKT BP as the KTL RD is to the old LKT RD (if you see what I mean). But it is totally non-tacky. Black sponge, uncut weight is 61g, cut to Calix it's 45g.
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Ok then, had a long training session with the KTL Red Diamond tonight. It's still tacky, and can still lift a ball for a few seconds. I've just cleaned it, and it's still going strong. I didn't like it on the OSP Expert, but on the Calix it worked really well. It's a combo of soft sponge, slight tack, slight bounce. Very forgiving when using. Like an easy-to-use H3, or a lower-powered BW2. It was the easiest rubber I've ever used to counterloop with, and it even smashed well. If I had to point out a weakness, it's just a bit too slow for an all-out attack game, and I had to adjust my blocking a bit. That could equally be Calix's slow low gear though.
You were right all along. Now, the only problem is can I order some more and get the same rubber? Or will it be totally different next time?
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Well, I used it for an hour last night on the Expert. The sponge is really soft, the topsheet really soft, thin and tacky. So it all made for a very slow experience. I had the old LKT Black Power on the other side, which was far faster.
In that configuration, I could only use it as a forehand rubber. It requires a cybernetic wrist to get enough force to use it on the backhand side. Next step - forehand on the Calix.
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dual700
Gold Member Joined: 08/11/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1628 |
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Can I recommend someone else?
http://stores.ebay.com/CHINA-TRAIT?_rdc=1 Have been a loyal customer for 3 years... Just email him to get what you want, even though his ebay stores has small collection of table tennis stuff. He does have them or can get them at excellent price. |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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LOL. Well, I can't blame the shop. I didn't specify which of the 2065 variations I wanted. |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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I know, I know. News flash - Chinese manufacturer in confusing products shocker. You heard it here first.
I should know better by now. Will give Ttnpp a go next time. |
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jonyer1980
Gold Member Joined: 07/30/2008 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 1600 |
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Same source ;)
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Rosewood V FL
Nittaku Fastarc G1-FH Stiga DNA Pro-S MAX BH Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing |
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dual700
Gold Member Joined: 08/11/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1628 |
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Andy, clean it a couple of times with rubber cleaner, see if it's still tacky...
Both batches I got for RD, they are very grippy, both excellent, no variation whatsoever. |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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haha, did you ever use a sheet of Red Diamond that wasn't a good rubber?. Fair enough the new non tacky one is something else but that's ok. It's cheap and I know in your soul you wont be happy until you try that one.. So get on TTNPP and order it. In my experience when things like this happen in life and they often do.
You really need to just suck up the mistake and continue on with your plan
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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You are such an optimist! Keep talking, you're cheering me up no end!
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Yeah, I get you. With this RD, ball bounces 3 times and stops. If I press down on a ball with it, it lifts the ball for 1-2 seconds. Straight out of the packet, Shark2 can't lift a ball at all. That's a grippy rubber. No tack at all.
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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Well I should guess that you have the latest version of the tacky Red Diamond, maybe that's also a great rubber
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dual700
Gold Member Joined: 08/11/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1628 |
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Andy, maybe my perception is different from others..
My tacky is sticky, ball bounces 2 - 3 and sticks Grippy is like Shark 2 RS, Tenergy, KTL RD. Edited by dual700 - 04/24/2012 at 12:21pm |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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No, from tnha on ebay.
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Well, my RD package doesn't have the text on the front, and doesn't have the thickness/hardness thing. But it's really tacky. Thanks KTL. I assume your name change was the latest step in your mission to confuse your customers to the point of madness.
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dual700
Gold Member Joined: 08/11/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1628 |
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Yep, both mines have the hardness printed on the cover. Like this
http://ttnpp.com/shop/ktl-black-power-p-543.html Both are very grippy, non tacky. |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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You didn't order from TTNPP?
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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That's the best explanation so far. So what was the old BP doing in a KTL package? Well, here is the NEW KTL packaging for BP, with purple colour scheme: My BP packaging doesn't look like that. It looks almost like the old one: BUT! It does have KTL on the packaging, and not LKT. So I think that KTL are still selling the old version of BP, in a slightly modified package (with KTL logo on the front, not the old LKT). But it's old stock, so the rubber still has LKT on. Dual, was your RD tacky when fresh from the package?
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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The new one has the thickness and hardness thing on the packet and can be Strong friction or non-adhesive afaik (purple logo). The one I've used wasn't tacky in anyway, it's just like Tenergy's grip, doesn't look like Tenergy or Shark II's rough surface but it grabs the ball even in heavy humidity perfectly so it does have some traction
Edited by bluebucket - 04/24/2012 at 12:14pm |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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I'm talking about fresh sheets. I just took the protective film off (not the sheet which comes with it) after I'd glued the cut rubber onto a blade. And they're both tacky. This RD can lift a ball for quite a while. The topsheet and sponge are exactly as you describe. But I can't describe it as non-tacky. Maybe it will wear off quickly? |
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AndySmith
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No, I understand what has happened here. I have basically ordered the old versions. Maybe.
Both packages are KTL. The Black Power rubber is LKT rubber, hard(ish) black sponge. The Red Diamond rubber is KTL rubber, soft pink sponge. They are both tacky. Looking at the packaging reveals some info. For example, my Red Diamond package looks like this: However, the one I (probably) wanted (perhaps) looks like this (maybe): Both KTL, but the 2nd one has the "non-adhesive" text on the front. Also, the second one has a purple KTL logo, instead of the black one I have. So, are KTL doing tacky and non-tacky versions of each rubber now? Just to add a bit more confusion, here is another type of packaging: "Strong friction" is written on the cover. So, for Red Diamond, there are (at least): LKT version, original sponge. LKT version, Gold Cake sponge. KTL version, no text on front, black KTL logo, tacky topsheet, soft sponge (I have this one). KTL version, "non-adhesive" written on the package, purple KTL logo. KTL version, "Strong friction" written on the package purple KTL logo. But the last two I've listed there have the same chinese characters, so maybe they are just different translations of the same thing? Or - maybe the text isn't actually written on the packaging. Maybe it's just in the promotional images sent out by KTL, and all the packaging is blank? Arrrrrrrgh! |
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dual700
Gold Member Joined: 08/11/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1628 |
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Andy, you got 1 new KTL Red Diamond and 1 old LKT BP
Both KTL RD and BP are light and soft. I still haven't cut my BP, but the RD I've used it for few weeks.. Keep us updated with your findings vs Shark 2 RS. I want to compare with my comparo Edited by dual700 - 04/24/2012 at 11:56am |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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Sounds like the Red Diamond is the new one, they both might be.. No one said the Black Power has changed much.
The new Red Diamond is non tacky but I could imagine it would become tacky if you put a sticky protector sheet on it, have you used the sheet? If it's got the KTL topsheet is light and the porous sponge that's hard to cut it's the new one 100%, 1000% certain Edited by bluebucket - 04/24/2012 at 11:00am |
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AndySmith
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So that means that I've got the wrong ones. These must be the old versions, with tacky topsheets.
Well. Nuts.
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AndySmith
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They both came with KTL protection sheets as well. Just to rub it in.
And I've just taken the blade out of the press. I was wrong - Red Diamond is tacky. Enough to lift a ball for a second. Hmmmmm.
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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So I ordered KTL Red Diamond and Black Power, and they arrived this morning.
First off, the Black Power. It was in the new KTL packaging. However, the rubber inside had the old LKT stamp. Looked like one of the earlier versions to me. Black sponge, quite hard, quite heavy, slightly tacky. So that's disappointing. Is this an old version in a new package? Is there even a new version available, or are LKT buring through their old stock? As usual, confusion reigns. However, the Red Diamond was the new one. Rubber has the new KTL logo. Completely different to the previous RD versions. Much, much lighter. Light pink sponge, very soft. So soft it's difficult to cut. Strange texture to it, almost feels like cloth. The only other sponge I've seen with a textile-like texture was TinArc 3, but this is much lighter than that. The topsheet is thin, translucent, non-tacky. Reminds me a lot of the Shark 2 Red Sponge topsheet, but the pips are smaller. I forgot to weigh the uncut sheets, and they're both in the press now. I did weigh the cutoffs, and the RD was 16g, while the BP was 21g. So, scaling up, RD is 76% of the mass of BP. A LOT lighter, and a lot lighter than the original 1st gen RD. Sorry I didn't get accurate figures. :-( |
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