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    Posted: 11/24/2011 at 4:00pm
I'm currently playing with the LKT Red Diamond rubber and I'm very pleased with it's performance. It is how ever not very durable and needs to be replaced too often for my likings. The main problem I have with it is that it loses it's tackiness.

So, now I'm curious if any one have tried the new version KTL Red Diamond (The name change is apparently due to some legal issues in China, LKT was already taken by some one else, so they changed it to KTL) and can share how it plays? I do think I've read that it is not tacky? Durability? Performance compared to the tacky LKT RD?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rawrtje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2011 at 4:36pm
I've got two sheets coming in next week hopefully, can probably give you a "first impressions" compared to Red Diamond 1st and 2nd generation then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote umibozuuu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2011 at 4:39pm
I've had a sheet of Red Diamond for a good 6 months hitting 10 hrs a week, and it's as good as new for all I care.. is it even supposed to be tacky??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rawrtje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2011 at 5:48pm
1st and 2nd generation Red Diamond are slightly tacky, yes. Another forum member mentioned he had some very tacky sheets, but all 5 or so of mine have been very, very mildly so (disappointing haha). 3rd generation is supposedly completely non-tacky, so it looks like this will be an adventure!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2011 at 9:06pm
Red Diamond stays tacky for years with a bit of spin max on it, more than enough to pick a ball when two years old

Edited by bluebucket - 11/24/2011 at 9:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2011 at 8:28am
I'm currently using my second sheet of LKT RD and both of them have been mildly tacky, but the tack have worn off quickly. I certainly can't pick up a ball with the new sheet, and it's less then a month old.

Rawrtjes, look forward to hear your impressions about the KTL and how it compares to the "current" Red Diamond.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rawrtje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2011 at 9:08am
1st sheet: topsheet started coming apart from the sponge within 15 minutes of hitting. Unusable within the hour.
2nd sheet: Used for an evening, then someone made off with that bat. OuchPinch

In any case, Speedplay, if you're still wondering what it's like, don't! It loops very easily and blocks better, but the sponge is much slower and loses a lot in the dynamicism of it all. Short game is worse. I prefer the 2nd generation (topsheet still tacky) to the 3rd. If you're not unhappy with how 1st gen RD plays, maybe Falco Life Expander or Spinmax?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2011 at 11:04am
I'm lucky enough to still be able to get hold of the 1st en RD, so I think I'll continue to use that. I also read that the third gen comes with a softer sponge, something that I'm not to excited about.

Thanks for the feedback, now I know for sure that I'm not interested in the third gen RD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2011 at 8:08pm
Speedplay, tried any other cheaper T05 subs yet? Like Moon, T-88?
All generalizations are incorrect, including this one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2011 at 11:07am
Unfortunately not. I've heard from several people that Moon is closer to Tenergy then RD, so I have been tempted, but at the same time, RD gets the job done and it's cheap.

I also suspect that the people who says Moon is closer to T05 then RD are people who have tried, and liked, the later versions of T05, while I prefered the earlier version of T05, the one with a harder/denser and heavier sponge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2011 at 2:14pm
Moon is definitely better than red diamond, but then that is not a high bar to clear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dual700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2011 at 2:19pm
KTL Red Diamond (again, the 3rd gen, not the 2nd or 1nd gen) is a euro feel rubber, very fast, med throw and good spin. Definitely faster than moon or sun. I don't know about the 1st or 2nd Red Diamond. I am talking about KTL RD, not LKT RD, btw.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2011 at 2:23pm
Sounds very different to the earlier versions. What rubber would you compare it to?

Has anyone tried the 3rd gen KTL Black Power yet?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dual700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2011 at 2:41pm
I had Apollo 2 on the same bat, definitely harder, heavier, lower throw vs the KTL RD.
I have BW2 RS and Shark 2 RS on different blade, so it's not a fair comparison..
But from what I can tell, the KTL RD is a rocket on my 1 ply, and this 1 ply is slower than my other 1 ply :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toprank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2011 at 2:45pm
How close is Red Diamond to Galaxy Moon? Similarties, differences, and Comparison appreciated.

Edited by Toprank - 12/22/2011 at 2:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2011 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

Moon is definitely better than red diamond, but then that is not a high bar to clear.


Better for who, or what?

I like the LKT RD, because it's hard, dead in the short game, but brings the speed when I increase the power and it's easy to load up spin on pretty much any shot. The one thing I don't like is the lack of durability, the tackiness wears of to quick.

From what I have hear, moon is softer and bouncier, which certainly isn't what I'm looking for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2011 at 7:32pm
I recently found a very old sheet of Tenergy and it does have a really hard sponge. Speedplay do you use the sticky protector sheets on your RD? they should keep the tack on it.

Toprank, the original RD is harder than Moon, RD is plays similar to the old BWII without the excess weight or if you can imagine a DHS rubber in a faster than DHS 41 degree sponge
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2011 at 8:07am
I don't use the sticky protection sheet, because when I was new to the sport, I used a sticky protection sheet on some tacky rubber (I think it was G 666) and the rubber got ruined straight away. Ever since then, I've been "affraid" to use sticky protection sheets. I do how ever use a regular protection sheet and always cleans the rubber with water when I have played.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2012 at 7:54am
So I ordered KTL Red Diamond and Black Power, and they arrived this morning.
 
First off, the Black Power.  It was in the new KTL packaging.  However, the rubber inside had the old LKT stamp.  Looked like one of the earlier versions to me.  Black sponge, quite hard, quite heavy, slightly tacky.  So that's disappointing.  Is this an old version in a new package?  Is there even a new version available, or are LKT buring through their old stock?  As usual, confusion reigns.
 
However, the Red Diamond was the new one.  Rubber has the new KTL logo.  Completely different to the previous RD versions.  Much, much lighter.  Light pink sponge, very soft.  So soft it's difficult to cut.  Strange texture to it, almost feels like cloth.  The only other sponge I've seen with a textile-like texture was TinArc 3, but this is much lighter than that.  The topsheet is thin, translucent, non-tacky.  Reminds me a lot of the Shark 2 Red Sponge topsheet, but the pips are smaller.
 
I forgot to weigh the uncut sheets, and they're both in the press now.  I did weigh the cutoffs, and the RD was 16g, while the BP was 21g.  So, scaling up, RD is 76% of the mass of BP.  A LOT lighter, and a lot lighter than the original 1st gen RD.  Sorry I didn't get accurate figures.  :-(
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2012 at 9:14am
They both came with KTL protection sheets as well.  Just to rub it in.
 
And I've just taken the blade out of the press.  I was wrong - Red Diamond is tacky.  Enough to lift a ball for a second.  Hmmmmm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2012 at 10:04am
So that means that I've got the wrong ones.  These must be the old versions, with tacky topsheets.
 
Well.  Nuts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2012 at 10:59am
Sounds like the Red Diamond is the new one, they both might be.. No one said the Black Power has changed much. 

The new Red Diamond is non tacky but I could imagine it would become tacky if you put a sticky protector sheet on it, have you used the sheet? If it's got the KTL topsheet is light and the porous sponge that's hard to cut it's the new one 100%, 1000% certain



Edited by bluebucket - 04/24/2012 at 11:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dual700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2012 at 11:55am
Andy, you got 1 new KTL Red Diamond and 1 old LKT BP Cry
Both KTL RD and BP are light and soft.
I still haven't cut my BP, but the RD Thumbs Up
I've used it for few weeks..

Keep us updated with your findings vs Shark 2 RS.  I want to compare with my comparo Wink


Edited by dual700 - 04/24/2012 at 11:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2012 at 12:07pm
No, I understand what has happened here.  I have basically ordered the old versions.  Maybe.
 
Both packages are KTL.  The Black Power rubber is LKT rubber, hard(ish) black sponge.  The Red Diamond rubber is KTL rubber, soft pink sponge.  They are both tacky.
 
Looking at the packaging reveals some info.  For example, my Red Diamond package looks like this:
 
 
However, the one I (probably) wanted (perhaps) looks like this (maybe):
 
 
Both KTL, but the 2nd one has the "non-adhesive" text on the front.  Also, the second one has a purple KTL logo, instead of the black one I have.  So, are KTL doing tacky and non-tacky versions of each rubber now?
 
Just to add a bit more confusion, here is another type of packaging:
 
 
"Strong friction" is written on the cover.  So, for Red Diamond, there are (at least):
 
LKT version, original sponge.
LKT version, Gold Cake sponge.
KTL version, no text on front, black KTL logo, tacky topsheet, soft sponge (I have this one).
KTL version, "non-adhesive" written on the package, purple KTL logo.
KTL version, "Strong friction" written on the package purple KTL logo.
 
But the last two I've listed there have the same chinese characters, so maybe they are just different translations of the same thing?  Or - maybe the text isn't actually written on the packaging.  Maybe it's just in the promotional images sent out by KTL, and all the packaging is blank?
 
Arrrrrrrgh!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2012 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by bluebucket bluebucket wrote:

Sounds like the Red Diamond is the new one, they both might be.. No one said the Black Power has changed much. 

The new Red Diamond is non tacky but I could imagine it would become tacky if you put a sticky protector sheet on it, have you used the sheet? If it's got the KTL topsheet is light and the porous sponge that's hard to cut it's the new one 100%, 1000% certain

Honestly, I haven't got a clue.
I'm talking about fresh sheets.  I just took the protective film off (not the sheet which comes with it) after I'd glued the cut rubber onto a blade.  And they're both tacky.  This RD can lift a ball for quite a while.
 
The topsheet and sponge are exactly as you describe.  But I can't describe it as non-tacky.  Maybe it will wear off quickly?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2012 at 12:11pm
The new one has the thickness and hardness thing on the packet and can be Strong friction or non-adhesive afaik (purple logo). The one I've used wasn't tacky in anyway, it's just like Tenergy's grip, doesn't look like Tenergy or Shark II's rough surface but it grabs the ball even in heavy humidity perfectly so it does have some traction

Edited by bluebucket - 04/24/2012 at 12:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2012 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by dual700 dual700 wrote:

Andy, you got 1 new KTL Red Diamond and 1 old LKT BP Cry
Both KTL RD and BP are light and soft.
I still haven't cut my BP, but the RD Thumbs Up
I've used it for few weeks..

Keep us updated with your findings vs Shark 2 RS.  I want to compare with my comparo Wink
 
That's the best explanation so far.  So what was the old BP doing in a KTL package?  Well, here is the NEW KTL packaging for BP, with purple colour scheme:
 
 
My BP packaging doesn't look like that.  It looks almost like the old one:
 
 
BUT!  It does have KTL on the packaging, and not LKT.  So I think that KTL are still selling the old version of BP, in a slightly modified package (with KTL logo on the front, not the old LKT).  But it's old stock, so the rubber still has LKT on.
 
Dual, was your RD tacky when fresh from the package?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2012 at 12:18pm
You didn't order from TTNPP?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dual700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2012 at 12:18pm
Yep, both mines have the hardness printed on the cover. Like this
http://ttnpp.com/shop/ktl-black-power-p-543.html

Both are very grippy, non tacky.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2012 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by bluebucket bluebucket wrote:

The new one has the thickness and hardness thing on the packet and can be Strong friction or non-adhesive afaik (purple logo). The one I've used wasn't tacky in anyway, it's just like Tenergy's grip, doesn't look like Tenergy or Shark II's rough surface but it grabs the ball even in heavy humidity perfectly so it does have some traction
 
Well, my RD package doesn't have the text on the front, and doesn't have the thickness/hardness thing.  But it's really tacky.
 
Thanks KTL.  I assume your name change was the latest step in your mission to confuse your customers to the point of madness.
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