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Butterfly ZJK Review

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 6:20pm
 I believe it should be mandatory by all manufacturers to mark the weight of each and every blade produced. With the increasing prices players need more information regarding their purchases. Pros demand exact weights and it would be helpful for the rest of us to know the weight of a blade before purchase. I don't feel this is asking to much from the manufacturers. It would be nice to see the ITTF requesting this also from the manufacturers....but I'm not holding my breath. Table tennis continues to be a loose cannon compared to other sports but that's a whole other story and would take me a few years to explain. LOL

Edited by frogger - 04/18/2012 at 9:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 10:19pm
I think all manufacturer use the same standard, of course there's +/- in measurement of head size, handle. But since table tennis blade use wood which is a natural resources, each blade weight diff is actually affected by the age of the wood. Some of the wood is harder, some softer, some heavier, some lighter.
The grain of my 90 Gr Viscaria has kind of fish scales
While the 94 gr which is 93,12 gr when I weight it with my scale has kind of TBS/TB ALC of grain...
W968 94 gr
H3 National blue sponge 2.2 untuned
T64 2.1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 128YinYang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 10:44pm
I'll tell you what really needs to be implemented....Weight-Balance. Tennis players all have the benefit of the manufacturer's specifying whether a blade is "head-heavy, neutral, or head-light (handle-heavy)." But not TT players. Butterfly won't tell us that their $150 blade is very head-heavy, you have to spend all of that money just to find out. The only help we can get is through forums like these, where people can ask other players what blades are head-heavy and not. Anyways, I'm getting off-topic now, since this is a ZJK review, so I'll stop... LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 10:49pm
Originally posted by peter79 peter79 wrote:

I think all manufacturer use the same standard, of course there's +/- in measurement of head size, handle. But since table tennis blade use wood which is a natural resources, each blade weight diff is actually affected by the age of the wood. Some of the wood is harder, some softer, some heavier, some lighter.
The grain of my 90 Gr Viscaria has kind of fish scales
While the 94 gr which is 93,12 gr when I weight it with my scale has kind of TBS/TB ALC of grain...


True.  No two thing made of wood can be identical.  I have two Viscarias at the moment and have owned quite a few others.  The worst one I have had is better than nearly every other blade I have used.  (Two were stolen, I gave one away, another one I broke).  Of the two I have now, they are the same weight, and I bought them at the same time, but there is one of the two I just like better than the other.  I'm not sure why.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by 128YinYang 128YinYang wrote:

I'm getting off-topic now, since this is a ZJK review, so I'll stop... LOL


I think this topic has changed to Viscaria review LOL
W968 94 gr
H3 National blue sponge 2.2 untuned
T64 2.1
186 gr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 11:06pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:


True.  No two thing made of wood can be identical.  I have two Viscarias at the moment and have owned quite a few others.  The worst one I have had is better than nearly every other blade I have used.  (Two were stolen, I gave one away, another one I broke).  Of the two I have now, they are the same weight, and I bought them at the same time, but there is one of the two I just like better than the other.  I'm not sure why.


Baal, I have seen your postings about the Viscaria's positive review , it's really a nice pair with H3. I was going to buy another butterfly ZJK, but the weight only availble is 87 gr. Then I luckily I saw Viscaria and buy it for comparison with ZJK. Now I know why you have so many Viscaria, it's the best blade I've found so far pairing with H3. it has enough speed not too fast, same spin as all wood, nice feel and good control, how could I expect more, it's my greatest setup for H3...

My coach has seen Zhang Jike's blade when he came to Indonesia when he is 16 years old, not sure when is it. He is already using Viscaria. When he look at the rubber, it's H3... but with purple sponge Shocked
W968 94 gr
H3 National blue sponge 2.2 untuned
T64 2.1
186 gr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvu.tee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 3:25am
Viscaria/ZJK - all the same... but yes, heavier blade will result in a much more balance racket with heavier rubbers... keep in mind though, that wrist speed and arm speed will suffer, and you will have to compensate with increased muscle strength and endurance.

I prefer medium weight combo (172-182 grams). I am an advanced amateur playing for my city's amateur team in the nationals but I do not feel comfortable with heavier blades regardless of the fact that I am 6.2 ft and about 200 pounds with a heavyweight-boxer build... in my club we have a small skinny bench player with a clipper and grip-s/sth combo that weights 206 grams... and he can do speedier flips and faster attacks with his heavier setup than I do, but at the end he lacks the penetration power to finish the point. although he is a nasty and crafty little thing and occasionally drives me out of my mental balance and wins, I usually have no problem returning, countering and winning with my puny lighter racket... so, do not overestimate the effect of the blade's weight on power since it acts as complete system with the player and rubbers on the ball. 

concerning the grain of the top koto ply, IMHO Viscarias are usually have rougher and larger grain (like fish scales you said, which is a good description)... based on my observations that is. i guess  that larger grain contributes to the characteristic softer feel (in addition to what seems a the little thicker top ply). ZJK is said to have the same wood and plies, but drier, therefore,  harder... but you can control so much ... so it will vary from blade to blade.

I've read in the Russian forums that ZJK is to Viscaria just as TB ALC is to TBS (at least that was the engineering/design concept behind it,  i.e. make it a tad faster, improve the handle, and add flarier colors Tongue)


Edited by vvu.tee - 04/19/2012 at 3:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 3:57am

The Chinese Viscaria is much faster and harder (being thicker) than both ZJK and Japanese Viscaria. Yet the price is much softer. Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 4:24am
Originally posted by Imago Imago wrote:

The Chinese Viscaria is much faster and harder (being thicker) than both ZJK and Japanese Viscaria. Yet the price is much softer. Wink



Could it be the fake version?? Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 5:20am

No way! Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 5:34am
Imago, do you mean Yinhe clone is the Chinese Viscaria?
W968 94 gr
H3 National blue sponge 2.2 untuned
T64 2.1
186 gr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 5:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7plies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 6:46am
Is the c-pen version of the ZJK essentially the same as the flared version?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sa01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 12:45pm
so is there a difference between viscaria, timo boll spirit and zhang jike????
in terms of composition I mean....
I heard viscaria has balsa core while tbs has kiri.
what about zhang jike?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvu.tee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 2:07pm
imago, for that matter,  the next fake viscaria that you get from taobao may be thinner than the real one...

Edited by vvu.tee - 04/19/2012 at 2:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by sa01 sa01 wrote:

so is there a difference between viscaria, timo boll spirit and zhang jike????
in terms of composition I mean....
I heard viscaria has balsa core while tbs has kiri.
what about zhang jike?


I don't think Viscaria has balsa core....
Not sure whether is a hard type of balsa...
My Donic Opticon RS which has a balsa core, is very soft, and looks different with Viscaria's
W968 94 gr
H3 National blue sponge 2.2 untuned
T64 2.1
186 gr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brainstorm69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 10:42pm
According to http://ttbdb.com the Viscaria does have a balsa core.

They say it's koto-ac-limba-balsa-limba-ac-koto

But I do think balsa can be harder than you might think.  I was at the College TT championships last weekend, and Butterfly was hawking their wares.  Among the blades I looked at was a Balsa Carbo X-5.  The balsa layer seemed pretty hard for balsa to me.  Not to mention the thing weighed 90g!





Edited by Brainstorm69 - 04/19/2012 at 10:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 1:21am
How thick is the zjk compare to the vascaria and tbs and tb t5000?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sa01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 1:56am
Originally posted by peter79 peter79 wrote:

Originally posted by sa01 sa01 wrote:

so is there a difference between viscaria, timo boll spirit and zhang jike????
in terms of composition I mean....
I heard viscaria has balsa core while tbs has kiri.
what about zhang jike?


I don't think Viscaria has balsa core....
Not sure whether is a hard type of balsa...
My Donic Opticon RS which has a balsa core, is very soft, and looks different with Viscaria's


yeah, if you touch balsa with your nail you'll leave a mark.
after reading messages here and in other threads I guess viscaria, tbs, tb alc and zhang jike are all pretty much the same blade, it's just a marketing thing + colors, handles, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 2:06am
Originally posted by JohnnyChop JohnnyChop wrote:

How thick is the zjk compare to the vascaria and tbs and tb t5000?


ZJK and Viscaria has the same thickness, 5.8 mm, TBS 5.7 mm , TB T5000 5.5 mm
W968 94 gr
H3 National blue sponge 2.2 untuned
T64 2.1
186 gr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 2:09am
Originally posted by sa01 sa01 wrote:


yeah, if you touch balsa with your nail you'll leave a mark.
after reading messages here and in other threads I guess viscaria, tbs, tb alc and zhang jike are all pretty much the same blade, it's just a marketing thing + colors, handles, etc.


I think Viscaria also use Kiri, but it's softer...
TBS has harder kiri core...
ZJK also use softer kiri core but the top ply is already sealed which make it harder than Viscaria. I compare my 90 gr Viscaria with my 90 Gr ZJK...
But my 93 gr Viscaria is as hard as ZJK...

W968 94 gr
H3 National blue sponge 2.2 untuned
T64 2.1
186 gr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 2:39am
Originally posted by vvu.tee vvu.tee wrote:

imago, for that matter,  the next fake viscaria that you get from taobao may be thinner than the real one...
 
Viscaria has misprints, so they are all fakes to me - both Chinese and Japanese. When BTY learn how to print the word "performance" I would reconsider my shopping intentions. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sa01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by peter79 peter79 wrote:

Originally posted by sa01 sa01 wrote:


yeah, if you touch balsa with your nail you'll leave a mark.
after reading messages here and in other threads I guess viscaria, tbs, tb alc and zhang jike are all pretty much the same blade, it's just a marketing thing + colors, handles, etc.


I think Viscaria also use Kiri, but it's softer...
TBS has harder kiri core...
ZJK also use softer kiri core but the top ply is already sealed which make it harder than Viscaria. I compare my 90 gr Viscaria with my 90 Gr ZJK...
But my 93 gr Viscaria is as hard as ZJK...



I recently bought a zjk.
are you suggesting I don't seal it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 10:48pm
Originally posted by sa01 sa01 wrote:


I recently bought a zjk.
are you suggesting I don't seal it?


What kind of WBG do you use? Do you use hair dyer with cool wind to blow it dry?
I use waterbase glue made in Indonesia "Glue n Spin" which is a thicker version of Water base glue.
Normally I use 6-8 layers of Haifu Waterbase glue, now I use 3 layers GnS...
The bond is as strong as Nittaku Fine zip, not sure if there's a stronger bond of any other brand of glue.

The dragon print doesn't peeled of when I remove the rubber 6 times already now, so don't worry for splinter Wink
W968 94 gr
H3 National blue sponge 2.2 untuned
T64 2.1
186 gr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 10:49pm
I found Roxon 500 Pro is too fast on backhand....
H3 National is fast enough on Viscaria....
I'm waiting for Tin Arc 37 2.0 to arrive and will try it on backhand, I hope it has better spin but slower...
W968 94 gr
H3 National blue sponge 2.2 untuned
T64 2.1
186 gr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2012 at 6:36am
I've just got another 2 Viscaria 91.2 gr and 92.7 gr Embarrassed
So far the weight is 90.5, 91.2, 92.7 and 93.3...
It all feels different each other, the more close feel is the 91.2 gr and 92.7 gr...

I've just cut Tin Arc 37 2.0 on Viscaria, it's very brittle, I glue the brittle sponge with rubber cement applying with needle. Now the sponge doesn't looks brittle anymore.
It feels harder than Roxon 500 pro.
The feel is unique, like hybrid between chinese and german, it has a nice feel.
It's fast enough on Viscaria, I will try it tomorrow.
It takes 5 times playing to break in, Rokphish said...




Edited by peter79 - 04/21/2012 at 6:38am
W968 94 gr
H3 National blue sponge 2.2 untuned
T64 2.1
186 gr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sa01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2012 at 11:32am
Originally posted by peter79 peter79 wrote:

Originally posted by sa01 sa01 wrote:


I recently bought a zjk.
are you suggesting I don't seal it?


What kind of WBG do you use? Do you use hair dyer with cool wind to blow it dry?
I use waterbase glue made in Indonesia "Glue n Spin" which is a thicker version of Water base glue.
Normally I use 6-8 layers of Haifu Waterbase glue, now I use 3 layers GnS...
The bond is as strong as Nittaku Fine zip, not sure if there's a stronger bond of any other brand of glue.

The dragon print doesn't peeled of when I remove the rubber 6 times already now, so don't worry for splinter Wink


I've been using speed glue.
but the bond kind of sucks so I'll try haifu wbg.
I think I'll put one layer of sealer just to be sure I don't break anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brayden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2012 at 8:01am
My btty zjk bh side is harder than the forehand side. And no if u bounce the ball on The blade, if it feels dead(not a lot of vibration), means that the power is concentrated, thus more heavy. If there is more vibration, it just means the power is spread out over the blade, thus lighter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2012 at 8:31am
Originally posted by brayden brayden wrote:

My btty zjk bh side is harder than the forehand side. And no if u bounce the ball on The blade, if it feels dead(not a lot of vibration), means that the power is concentrated, thus more heavy. If there is more vibration, it just means the power is spread out over the blade, thus lighter


How Heavy is your ZJK? do you seal the blade?
I found a 92 gr Viscaria in the shop, it has dead feel and faster than any other Viscaria I try to test.
Well I prefer a blade which has a nice feel and vibration, has a good dwell, not too low, not too high.
W968 94 gr
H3 National blue sponge 2.2 untuned
T64 2.1
186 gr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brayden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2012 at 8:54am
Mine btty zjk is 90g, I don't seal my blade(once u seal ur blade,ur fate of ur blade is sealed) :)
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