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How can I think or make strategy during a match

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Nagatito View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04/23/2012 at 11:58pm
Hi. Can someone give me some tips for start thinking and make a strategy for a match. Because when I play I only hit the ball without thinking and when I try I cant so can anyone give me some tips please
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2012 at 12:16am
What is your style? There are different strategies for each style
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nagatito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2012 at 12:29am
Im a looper but what I need is start thinking during match for plan what to do during the next point how to reserve de serve and where to place it. Long short with a push or a flip to backhand or forehand. And also how can you think on a rally because I only throw all to the middle my body only does that when im on a mid distance counterlooping rally
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ianworz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2012 at 12:50am
In the middle of the rally there's only 3 *simple* options: 1) get it back on the table safely 2) try to jam your opponent by hitting at his or her's center/elbow 3) hit it away from your opponent so as to put them out of position. Those are three split second decisions  that should be somewhat dictated by the circumstance of the rally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 1:43pm
It will be to late for you to choose during those 3 split seconds.
When your opponent hits the ball, you should be able to see/feel where the ball will land on your side of the table.
Your foot needs to get into position first, and then you can shift your body weight and follow through with your shot.

Regarding strategies, the more common ones you can do during drills/practice is services and short games, 3rd ball attack, 5th ball attack. Practice hitting bh and fh to opponsitions fh corner, then the same to bh corner. Multiballs - with location targets. Aim for 2 wings and center for the table.

Then during match time, you would need to find out what is your opponents strength and weakness, and with all your practices, your mind will move your body - without even thinking - thinking is too slow.

Above is what I heard from one of the ex Chinese players
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 2:47pm
Then during match time, you would need to find out what is your opponents strength and weakness.
================================
When playing a familiar player, try to recall his strength and weakness from past experience.
 
When playing a new opponent (you have never played before), trying to figure out his strength and weakness during warm-up --- send the ball to his right side, left side, body, and give him some top spin & some back-spin balls.
 
Play against his weakness and avoid his strength.
 
If he has no weakness, you will be in serious trouble anyway.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 3:48pm
Best thing to do is to analyze each point as soon as it have been played. Think about it and try to figure out why you won/lost the point and then adjust your game according to that.

Fx, if you hit 3 blazing fh's down the line, but the all get blocked back past you and costs you points, then perhaps this is a shot you should avoid? Perhaps try to attack either with spin instead of speed, or at least attack to another spot on the table?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 4:23pm
Also try going back to basics and play some practice matches with a blade only. No rubbers. It's also fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 4:28pm
Thats something new, I haven't heard or done that before.
Won't just the blade itself be too light? And won't that feel like hardbats etc?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 4:52pm
I suggest you start with the basics. It is a lot harder to play properly when your opponent is serving if you have no idea what to do. So start with the points where you can begin to teach yourself to teach to think through your matches.

Before you serve, you have a few basic things you need to monitor and establish.

1. You opponents responses to the serve ( will the opponent push, loop, bump, flip or roll the ball )
2. You need to depend on your strengths to win the point on weak return.
3. Monitor opponent's behaviors to notice WHERE the opponent will place the next ball. WHAT shot he prefers to take. HOW does he move after taking the shots.

These basic points allow you to quickly evaluate what is going on during your service and establish a strategy - meaning what can you use from this information in order to create an opportunity to win the point.

Once you can set yourself up to win the point on your serve. Then you can use the same analysis to determine your plan of action on your opponent's serve.

1. What serve does your opponent prefer.
2. Where does he place it.
3. What kind of shot does he prefer to use to attack the service return.
4. What makes the opponent uncomfortable or make him hesitate.

Now you have info you can use to build strategy. Things that opponent does great is a strength, and things the opponent does poorly is a weakness. You goal is to build a strategy ( or sequence or shots ) that will force your opponent to keep taking shots that he does poorly, while you take shots that you do well.

Over time, you will begin to notice that your opponent will start to change his approach to the shots he does not so well in order to take a shot of the same ball with a stroke that he does very well. Depending on the level, you will need to monitor when your opponent makes the adjustment that is WORKING for him and apply your own adjustments to your overall strategy.

Hope this helps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 4:55pm
Good post Leshxa Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote figgie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 5:17pm
I have bad news for you
 
A strategy during a match is a sure success for FAILURE.
 
you have to have a general strategy in place before your match EVER BEGINS!
 
THing about it this way,
 
Miami Heat, La Lakers, you think they make the strategy up right as they are taking the courts?
 
New York Giants, New England Patriots, You think they take the field without a strategy to make it up there?
 
Minnesota Twins... errr scratch them... New York Yankess, Boston red Sox... same as above.
 
Mayweather v Cotto - you think they come up with a strategy when they get in the ring???
 
You have to have a strategy in place PRIOR to setting foot into competition. Then you ADJUST said strategy depending on what is happening if needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 5:27pm
Hm, Figgie, I think you can have a general strategy on your own stregth and weakness, and that is how your train during your practice sessions too.

Yes, the pros with coaching team spends equal time on the computer as on the table for the strategy part. I think it is unfair to compare a professional (of any sport), to non professionals like us. Even some professionals doesn't have the budget to have these luxury.

If you play the same opponent, then you can maybe watch your video recordings, and spend some time to analysis the game, and come back with a new plan, otherwise everything is general and you would also need to adapt or identify to new strategy point by point.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote figgie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 5:30pm
It is not unfair.
 
I always come to the table with a strategy in place. And I am not a pro. A strategy does not have to be about your opponent all the time. ;) Tactics vary on your opponent.
 
When I play anyone regardless of there rating, I have a strategy that I come with, and depending on my own obesrvations, my tatics might change or not (depends if things work or not).
 
Really a strategy doesn't have to be complicated. :)
 
it can be as simple as, vary table placements of shots on every single shot which is for my own self to if player does this, adjust in this. ;)
 
No need for a computer for a strategy at our levels.


Edited by figgie - 05/01/2012 at 5:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 5:31pm
While I agree with you figgie, this is a very unrealistic expectation in an amateur TT tournament. We don't always know all the people in the tournament, our sections, and our groups. We have no time to warm up let alone do the scouting. The events are held back to back without exact schedules and it is extremely hard to prepare for a match, get some food, take time to mentally get ready to play etc.

I also believe that while the plans are good on the paper before the match, the players need to become intelligent in understanding the changes in the game as the match progresses. This leaves lots of room for smarts. Its almost a comparison of being book smart and street smart.

Finally, I have another example. In tennis, there is no ingame coaching allowed. Table tennis is different, we are allowed in between game coaching. Which is a big help in focusing us to win the match with refinement in strategy and tactics. One of the leading criticisms in tennis is the actual fact that coaches are unable to help their players to see various adjustments they need to make and how important the actual player's self sufficiency is.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote figgie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by Leshxa Leshxa wrote:

While I agree with you figgie, this is a very unrealistic expectation in an amateur TT tournament. We don't always know all the people in the tournament, our sections, and our groups.
 
Sorry about that but I will use this statement as I think this is actually important.
 
You don't have to know what the other player is doing. The strategy is usually around your own self.
 
Ie I am going to third ball attack if the opportunity is there.
I am not going to let balls hang of the edge of the table without looping them.
 
 
tatics are used to get your strategy to work ;)
 
ie if playing a chopper how can you get a third ball (or x ball) attack? You vary spin and depth until a lose ball comes up.
ie if playing a two wing looper, if he loops you will have to loop and/or vary placement by blocking.
 
Those are tatics to implement the aforementioned strategy. ;)
 
No need to know the other player. Yes at the upper echelon they do because, well they play one another A LOT. Us, outside of our local leagues we rarely play the same people twice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 5:40pm
Figgie, yes, we all need to come to the game with some form of plan.

But you took 2 professional teams as an example. Heats Vs Lakers. And I don't think they just go in with a general strategy. They will anaysis all the plays, and have offensive/defensive setup for specific opponents and players.

So lets say you VS me. How you going to study me like your example above?
So to use professional is unfair and untrue for us.

Agree with coming to the game with a general one, or maybe you had experience playing against me, or maybe you heard from other players on my strength and weakness, else if no information your Heats vs Lakers is a big question mark when talking pregame strategy.

Imo Leshxa shared some decent information to Nagatito for in game "observing". Some times the coach or spectator can see more than the player themselves, that is why we are lucky to have good coaches to provide us strategy during times outs or breaks.

I once was coaching (during game) a training partner of mine. He is national player and went to Sweden for a few years to play league. He is much better than me.
At a crucial stage in the national champs, I called time out as he was loosing. I told him to serve long into the body - for both service. He won those 2 points and help him overcome from loosing to winning.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 5:41pm
Lol just saw your reply after I posted Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 5:44pm
Figgie, lets change the subject to post match strategy.

You were talking about MacD, i'm listening..... LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 5:46pm
Originally posted by figgie figgie wrote:

Originally posted by Leshxa Leshxa wrote:

While I agree with you figgie, this is a very unrealistic expectation in an amateur TT tournament. We don't always know all the people in the tournament, our sections, and our groups.
 
Sorry about that but I will use this statement as I think this is actually important.
 
You don't have to know what the other player is doing. The strategy is usually around your own self.
 
Ie I am going to third ball attack if the opportunity is there.
I am not going to let balls hang of the edge of the table without looping them.
 
 
tatics are used to get your strategy to work ;)
 
ie if playing a chopper how can you get a third ball (or x ball) attack? You vary spin and depth until a lose ball comes up.
ie if playing a two wing looper, if he loops you will have to loop and/or vary placement by blocking.
 
Those are tatics to implement the aforementioned strategy. ;)
 
No need to know the other player. Yes at the upper echelon they do because, well they play one another A LOT. Us, outside of our local leagues we rarely play the same people twice.


I understand what you are saying.

To me this is not strategy per se. It is general knowledge in a way to approach a player of a certain style. This knowledge is very generic and it is a good start, but it is nowhere near the initial question of this post - How do I learn to think during the match?

The fact of the matter is that no two players have the same game. Their shots and approaches to shots will all be different and hence even the general knowledge may not be sufficient in dealing with another players game. Plus, you will need to also evaluate your own strengths.

Here is an example. The book says against a chopper you want to move him in and out, not side to side. Well that sounds good, but if you are unable to loop hard enough and make the chopper retrieve back enough to use a drop shot or a push, what good is it to play by the "book". Its best to use another strength of your own to win, and that takes an understanding of strategy overall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:

Figgie, yes, we all need to come to the game with some form of plan.

But you took 2 professional teams as an example. Heats Vs Lakers. And I don't think they just go in with a general strategy. They will anaysis all the plays, and have offensive/defensive setup for specific opponents and players.

So lets say you VS me. How you going to study me like your example above?
So to use professional is unfair and untrue for us.

Agree with coming to the game with a general one, or maybe you had experience playing against me, or maybe you heard from other players on my strength and weakness, else if no information your Heats vs Lakers is a big question mark when talking pregame strategy.

Imo Leshxa shared some decent information to Nagatito for in game "observing". Some times the coach or spectator can see more than the player themselves, that is why we are lucky to have good coaches to provide us strategy during times outs or breaks.

I once was coaching (during game) a training partner of mine. He is national player and went to Sweden for a few years to play league. He is much better than me.
At a crucial stage in the national champs, I called time out as he was loosing. I told him to serve long into the body - for both service. He won those 2 points and help him overcome from loosing to winning.



Good points, ZA!

Sorry I didn't see them before I posted. You covered what I wanted to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 5:58pm
lol Leshxa, you covered what I wanted to say!! lol

You know, Ive been away from the game for 5 years, came back, but fallen ill and still recovering.
Hit the table first time in 2 months yesturday.
All these TT talk make me miss the old times. At peak I was doing about 35 hours a week.
These 5 years gap, I loss a lot of "strategies" as well as executions, need time to earn it back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 6:07pm
In that case, ZA! As my coach says "If you've already been there, its easier to get it back, because you KNOW HOW to get there."

Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote figgie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:

Figgie, yes, we all need to come to the game with some form of plan.

So lets say you VS me. How you going to study me like your example above?
So to use professional is unfair and untrue for us.

Agree with coming to the game with a general one, or maybe you had experience playing against me, or maybe you heard from other players on my strength and weakness, else if no information your Heats vs Lakers is a big question mark when talking pregame strategy.

Imo Leshxa shared some decent information to Nagatito for in game "observing". Some times the coach or spectator can see more than the player themselves, that is why we are lucky to have good coaches to provide us strategy during times outs or breaks.

I once was coaching (during game) a training partner of mine. He is national player and went to Sweden for a few years to play league. He is much better than me.
At a crucial stage in the national champs, I called time out as he was loosing. I told him to serve long into the body - for both service. He won those 2 points and help him overcome from loosing to winning.

 
before going on McD's... let me address this. :)
 
I never played you. I don't even know what you look like. But that is no different than when I go to any team tournament (been years for that) or any other competition be it TT, Dancing etc. :)
 
My strategy is not general guidelines. It is items that I have observed that when I do, I win and when I don't I lose. So regardless of your style (attacker, chopper LP player, etc) my first order of business is establish what you CAN and can not do and then adjust my tatics in order to implement my strategy accordingly. Granted my game currently is no where what it used to be. Now I hope i can establish my loop any lose ball strategy but my fitness prevents that from happening long term. :) lol
 
ps
 
heat v laker.. they do have a pre-game strategy. ;)

Own the "paint", avoid jumpers and try to clear the lanes. The heat also are passing the ball exceptionally well (which the heat did excpetionally well against the Knicks I might add).  If they have a 3 pointer specialist, pick gaurd outside the line.
 
yes "owning" the paint is a strategy. :)
 
which is no different than establishing the running game in the NFL.


Edited by figgie - 05/01/2012 at 6:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnachtwey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 6:14pm
We all have a style and like to play 'our game'.   The goal is to impose 'our game' on the opponent.   For instance Pushblocker pretty much imposes his game on the opponents and wins.   When one of his opponents thought outside the box and started high balls to Pushblocker they were imposing their game on Pushblocker.  Pushblocker couldn't push the ball back low anymore.

The really tough part is executing 'your game'.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 6:19pm
Figgie,
I think better would be to reword it with my broken English like:

You must have a pregame strategy, it can be on your opponent and/or on yourself.

If you know/have information about the opponent even better, if not then be alert and start establishing what you can or can not do and adjust strategy accordingly during the game.

Can we go off work now? time to eat?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote figgie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:


Can we go off work now? time to eat?


 
McD's sounded great and then it hit me... Wendy's is right next door.
 
And so is Taco bell. Those Taco Locos are damn tasty!
 
my pre-game strategy.. is to go eat and then hit the gym! lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 6:29pm
Why can't we just go to all of them?
Why bother making such a difficult decision in the first place?

Lets go to all of them, and worry about the "after/side effects later.

btw, this just might be my pre-game strategy before I play you, lol Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elpasott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 7:23pm
Just wanna add something to this topic and this comes from my experience. My strategy only works when I have the serve, just by  doing drills you should already know where the ball is coming back to you. The question is, what if the other guy same level as you but has some good serves and you having problems returning the serves, basically hes putting his strategy on you too. Again, I have to read the spin very well, especially the topspin, it can easily get killed if I pop it high.  If you can read others people minds youll be set.

Edited by elpasott - 05/01/2012 at 7:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 11:44pm
If service return is one of your weaknesses, a smart opponent will recognize it and will attack this very weakness immediately. Why should one even give you a chance to enter the rally when a serve will score immediate points and lots of pressure? Work on service return! That's why its the one of the most important skills in table tennis.

Again to go back to the previous discussion on strategy. All the general knowledge does not matter if you do not possess a technique to allow you bringing your own strength into the game. What is even worse is that if you walk around the club and ask players 2 questions, you will hear "I dunno" from almost everyone.

Try it. Ask these two questions to players in your club and see if they have an answer. I bet most won't.

1. What is your number one strength?
2. What is the #1 shot that allows you to win your points?

See if these answers match. :) Those with matching answers understand the strategy!!!




Edited by Leshxa - 05/01/2012 at 11:46pm
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