why no interest in Butterfly Spinart?

Dude trust me i come from using H3 and TG3 spin art is not even spiny enough to be in the same category. second of all it is slow... compare it to tenergy the top sheet makes it one of the slowest rubbers with spring sponge technology. i tried spinart on many blades and its just slower than tenergy. i still use tuned TG3 and H3 and there is so much more spin than spin art. in short game spin art cannot compare to chinese rubber in control. spin art just bounces in short game but lacks speed in loops and hits.

cotdt wrote: I don't understand how you can say Spinart is slow. It is easily faster than T05 at higher gears. It's faster at driving, it's faster at looping. It gets exponentially faster at higher arm speeds. The spin of Spinart to me seems right up there with T05 and H3. There is more spin than Palio Thor, anyway. Tuned H3 gets more sponge penetration than Spinart, but I think spin is pretty close, otherwise they play very similar.

uncontrollable? If you can control H3 Neo, Spinart plays more or less the same. Thors produces less spin and it's hard to land faster shots on the table. Thors is only faster on low and medium gears. Spinart is faster if you hit hard enough (probably due to its higher hardness).

I agree, Spinart is way better than h3 neo commercial. h3 neo com is a piece of crap, unless you boost it up. h3 neo national is where spinart looks less attractive. You think spinart is better than Tenergy 05 and even faster??? I agree control is better, but you are dreaming if you think they are in the same speed category. Spinart may appear to be faster because it gives you more control and feel, which you turn into power. 

People that might like Spinart would rather pay much less and get H3 Neo.  People who like Tenergy generally do not like any Chinese type rubbers, but if I could use Chinese rubbers I would certainly prefer to pay $25 than $80.  Also, these days quite a few rubbers are faster than Tenergy, and some can be as spinny.  But none of them have the same feel--maybe that will change soon.  Speed was never the selling point of Tenergy.  There is nobody I know who likes the feel and performance of Tenergy that likes Spin Art at all.  I found the stuff unplayable.  It's good that you have found something that works for you, though.  

Somebody commented that Spinart is better than Tenergy 05 for under 2000 loopers and Tenergy 05 is better than Spinart for over 2200 loopers.  IMHO, that's too much of an over-generalization.  Depends very much on a person's stroke even at 1800 level.  Depends even more on skill and specific weaknesses in short game.   

Edited by Baal - 06/09/2012 at 11:14am

It's a piece of crap, the most disappointing rubber I've tried...

Baal wrote:   Somebody commented that Spinart is better than Tenergy 05 for under 2000 loopers and Tenergy 05 is better than Spinart for over 2200 loopers.  IMHO, that's too much of an over-generalization.  Depends very much on a person's stroke even at 1800 level.  Depends even more on skill and specific weaknesses in short game.

popperlocker wrote: I look at it like this. Loopers under 2000, don't have a complete game yet. Most play "scared" with Tenergy 05. Spinart forces you to use your body correctly and get into the shot, a great instructor. 2200+ is where things look clean and professional and where Tenergy 05 is superior. An 1800 player with good technique might get away with using thin 1.7 Tenergy. But honestly, I haven't seen someone under 2000 that can handle Tenergy 05. For every one thing you can do with Tenergy, there are 3 things that you cannot do. Spinart will help seal up those holes.

By making the game even more demanding, and giving people a rubber even more sensitive to incoming spin, you will make people better?  People who probably lose most of their points in short game?
I would agree with you about people maybe using blades that are too fast hard and stiff but Tenergy is not that uncontrollable.


Edited by Baal - 06/09/2012 at 7:10pm

cotdt wrote: Spinart is a great rubber. It plays just like H3 Neo. It even feels similar. I did not need any adjustment at all coming from tuned H3. Spinart is much faster than all the Tenergy rubbers if you hit moderately hard with it. It is much easier to control and serves better. Why do people say it's slow? It's fast! Why so much interest in Tenergy and no interest in a rubber that is superior in many aspects?

Just marketing, if no pro male uses it nobody will buy it..remember how un popular was pg7 before used by ma long

popperlocker wrote:   Here's an example for demanding rubbers. You are a 1000 usatt looper.  Can utilize 25% of Tenergy 05 max = 10 miles an hour ball speed. 10 rotations per second. Can utilize 50% of Spin Art max = 15 miles an hour ball speed. 15 rotations per second.  Spin Art wins. Spin Art is easier for receiving serves and less sensitive to incoming spin compared to 05. Spin Art is slower and has more control, which is what developing players need. Developing players can suffer from the "Tenergy cripple effect". Tenergy can cause lots of damage to a developing player's game and technique. The sooner you give it up, the better off you will be.

Well if you simply aribitrarily choose the numbers to support the argument you want to make, they will end up doing that.  It is proof by assumption.  But there is simply no basis in fact for any of the numbers you put in your last comment.    Is Spinart easier for returning serves?  Less sensitive to incoming spin?  A tacky rubber? Really?  I am pretty skeptical about that!  Actually, I don't think 1000 players should be using either of these rubbers (or stiff composite blades).  Also, it's pretty hard to describe anyone at that level as a "looper".  But you were saying no spin oriented player under 2200 should be using Tenergy, they should be using Spinart instead.  That just doesn't seem to be a statement that could ever be justified, and if people's choices in the market place are any indication, not many people like this stuff. 

Baal wrote: popperlocker wrote:   Here's an example for demanding rubbers. You are a 1000 usatt looper.  Can utilize 25% of Tenergy 05 max = 10 miles an hour ball speed. 10 rotations per second. Can utilize 50% of Spin Art max = 15 miles an hour ball speed. 15 rotations per second.  Spin Art wins. Spin Art is easier for receiving serves and less sensitive to incoming spin compared to 05. Spin Art is slower and has more control, which is what developing players need. Developing players can suffer from the "Tenergy cripple effect". Tenergy can cause lots of damage to a developing player's game and technique. The sooner you give it up, the better off you will be.  Well if you simply aribitrarily choose the numbers to support the argument you want to make, they will end up doing that.  It is proof by assumption.  But there is simply no basis in fact for any of the numbers you put in your last comment.    Is Spinart easier for returning serves?  Less sensitive to incoming spin?  A tacky rubber? Really?  I am pretty skeptical about that!  Actually, I don't think 1000 players should be using either of these rubbers (or stiff composite blades).  Also, it's pretty hard to describe anyone at that level as a "looper".  But you were saying no spin oriented player under 2200 should be using Tenergy, they should be using Spinart instead.  That just doesn't seem to be a statement that could ever be justified, and if people's choices in the market place are any indication, not many people like this stuff.

X rubber is good for <2000 Y rubber is good for >2000

Getting off topic in this thread?

I just tried spinart for 3 weeks of light use, here are my impressions.  It's a great rubber - you have to come from using chinese tacky rubbers to like this one, tenergy users I suppose won't find it that interesting?

Compared to h3 neo provincial:

pros:

* definitely faster through the range of shots - more explosive power
* more dangerous opening loops - opening shots have more penetration and speed
* more active when used for blocking, blocks really nicely.
* doesn't just unexpectedly become crap due to the tuning effect or whatever running out, like with h3 neo seriously, WTF DHS?
* serves are magnificent with this rubber.  best service rubber I've tried, tin arc being second.  h3 is fine for service but these topsheets have more pop and bite.
* if you can get enough leverage to attack a short ball you get a very strong attack.  You can kill short slightly high balls with this rubber.  tenergy seems to be similar (never used, but people do this to me)  DHS is too sensitive for this.

sames:

* good lower gears.  less committed shots are rarely out
* committed shots are really, really spinny
* heavier weight

worse:

* a bit more sensitive in short play - seems to have a worse short game, but maybe I'm not as used to it.  Drops are harder to perform, pushes are more dangerous but harder to keep short.  Generally feels better to play long and spinny with this rubber.
* more sensitive when opening against half long balls - I net more balls when playing this bread-and-butter shot.  Sometimes I can't lift heavy underspin whereas with h3 its "effortless".  medium openings are hard, with this rubber I have to open committed and hard, no babying the ball like with h3, but I get a better quality ball as a result.
* going long a LOT more on my forehand.  the downside of the added power, and its major.  I keep going long and it sucks.  H3 neo is "can't miss" not so with spin art
* cost - its expensive.



Edited by chronos - 06/10/2012 at 10:47pm

Very very different from tenergy - just a completely different rubber to me.  If you like tenergy, spinart is probably going to feel like crap - if you like h3, you *might* like it but there are a lot of caveats :/ a lot of tenergy fans try spinart and get disappointed, naturally, but I think it is partially a problem of the wrong expectations.

My next test is the new whale II red sponge, which has a thicker, harder topsheet and is more like the old whale topsheet.  I was using spin art on CL Cr, too fast even though h3np is very easy to control on that blade.  I'll put whale II red sponge on tube carbo.

Ahh sorry GS, I use h3 neo *provincial* exclusively, I only had one h3n commercial ever, and it felt different.  However my long lost training partner and friend who quit the sport used h3np for a while, then switched to commercial and claimed that commercial was the same if you broke it in enough (he trained a good 20 hours a week so he wore out rubbers fast)