viscaria vs zjk

well personally i think they are the same blade except for the Handle. the biggest difference between them would be the variation in weight from blade to blade.

I was sure ZJK and Viscaria would be the same, and figured I would like the ZJK handle better.  The ZJK I bought was awful in comparison to my Viscarias in terms of feel and weight balance.  I sold it right away.  Then I tried another one at our club, and it was pretty bad too, but very different from the first one.  Recently, my friend and I each bought new Viscarias.  I didn't like the one I got either, but I liked his and he liked mine so we traded and are happy.  These two Viscaria blades are very very different.   I am starting to wonder if Butterfly has some quality control issues with their ALC blades?  The variability seems higher to me than it used to be, although this is based on pretty small samples.  Anybody else starting to wonder about this?  I should note that finish was perfect on all of these.  They looked great.  But the last two Viscarias I am talking about gave notes that were two full tones apart when you knocked the handle against your head.  That translates to very large differences in speed.

So to the OP I am saying I just don't have a confident answer.  It depends on which ones you get.   

Edited by Baal - 11/05/2012 at 9:16am

ZJK is Balsa?

danhs wrote: Sounds like your head needs to work on it's consistency Seriously though, I've experienced differences that large between blades often. Which one did you keep? Did you weigh them?

I have the impression that Viscaria did not used to have that much variation, the ones I owned certainly didn't.  The two blades that varied so much in speed were 90g and 91 grams, the heavier one being a lot faster.  I preferred the slow one, my friend liked the fast one, so we're both happy now.  Anyway, hopefully I won't ever have to buy another one.  I still really wonder if these days there is increased variation in Btfly ALC blades and wonder if anyone else has that impression. 

choice depends on whether you need his name or his game ..   !!  :)

Anyone else suspect that Butterfly is selling the same blade under 4 different names?

Timo Boll Spirit
Timo Boll ALC
Viscaria
Zhang Jike

There are slight differences in handles, slight differences in weight, slight differences in thickness.  The head size is listed as the same for all the models above, anyone know if the head shape is the same for all 4?

I would think that these criteria are within the tolerance for the manufacturing of wooden based blades.  Even if they sort the blanks before putting on the handles there would have to be some overlap between the blades (maybe the blank gets a handle just based on demand?).  Even if you short them into 2, 3 or 4 groups based on the tone of the blank, there should be room to grab a blank from the group above or below the optimal one if you need a particular model and just slap a handle on it.

What do you think?  Does this make sense?  It would have been simpler when there were just 1 (Viscaria) or 2 models (Viscaria and TBS) since the faster ones would have received Viscaria handles while the Slower ones TBS handles. 

Maybe there are subtle things different (among Viscaria, ZJK, TBS, TB-ALC) like the way they glue the plies or something, but they are all pretty similar.  It's hard to imagine they can be quite identical given the average weight ranges, and I don't think it's all in the handles.  Also, I have yet to try a ZJK that I liked -- but then again, I have only tried two, and I have tried larger numbers of the other models, a lot more in the case of Viscaria and TB-ALC.  The outer ply of the ZJK also looked a bit different with respect to grain, even though it's supposed to be the same wood.  I wish I had larger sample sizes so I could be more sure about this!  As for TBS, Viscaria, TB-ALC, average weights differ a bit, handles are different, and of course, there is variation within the model.  Somebody just mentioned having a lighter Viscaria that is as slow as a Maze, and the one I got a couple weeks ago was 92 grams and played almost like an Amultart.  The Viscaria I am using just now, also purchased in the last month, is just right.   A perfect Viscaria, which is a great blade. That is a whopping big range!

At one point I was a bit worried that Viscaria seemed not to be made anymore (and I had recently lost my best one ).  The it occured to me that if and ever I need a new blade, I could switch to TB-ALC, and in a week or less I would be playing the same as ever.  Based on experience so far, I have preferred those to the ZJK blades I have tried.

All the same, I am now really starting to wonder about whether the variability of Btfly blades is increasing, at least in their ALC line.  Maybe they are making them somewhere else now and they have issues with consistency or just don't care?  

shirazir wrote: 1dennistt wrote: Anyone else suspect that Butterfly is selling the same blade under 4 different names? Timo Boll Spirit Timo Boll ALC Viscaria Zhang Jike There are slight differences in handles, slight differences in weight, slight differences in thickness.  The head size is listed as the same for all the models above, anyone know if the head shape is the same for all 4? I would think that these criteria are within the tolerance for the manufacturing of wooden based blades.  Even if they sort the blanks before putting on the handles there would have to be some overlap between the blades (maybe the blank gets a handle just based on demand?).  Even if you short them into 2, 3 or 4 groups based on the tone of the blank, there should be room to grab a blank from the group above or below the optimal one if you need a particular model and just slap a handle on it. What do you think?  Does this make sense?  It would have been simpler when there were just 1 (Viscaria) or 2 models (Viscaria and TBS) since the faster ones would have received Viscaria handles while the Slower ones TBS handles.  +1 It's almost impossible to compare blades that are so similar in structure. It's obvious there are variations within the same blade line so it's rather difficult to compare across lines (eg, Viscaria vs. TBS). That said, I really do think the TB ALC, TBS, Viscaria and ZJK are the exact same blade though nobody except the folks at BTY will be able to confirm or deny that.

My old Viscaria has retired after a long career, it's pretty beat up now , but still serviceable.  I have a friend who has two more of these from about the same time, (old like mine) in good shape, but I haven't been able to convince him to part with them. 

Since it was replaced I have destroyed 2 of the balsa core ALC blades I replaced it with.  I hadn't broken a blade in a long time, but in my defense I have been nursing a bad case of tennis elbow which has caused me lots of other problems also. 

One thing we haven't considered is the ALC plies themselves.  Could be a quality control of the fibers in the plys?  I'm doubting this since there should be less variability in them than in different samples of the same type of wood.  I'm guessing that is what we see in the differences between 2 blades of the same type, as with most things mass produced the quality control will make the difference between a consistent product and lower quality alternative knockoffs.

My Viscaria came in at 91 gms, and so far I haven't found anything I like as well as that blade.  My only compliant is that it's heavier than I would like now.

1dennistt wrote: Anyone else suspect that Butterfly is selling the same blade under 4 different names? Timo Boll Spirit Timo Boll ALC Viscaria Zhang Jike

Handles are may be the same size at one place on the blade but ZJK and Viscaria handles have different overall shape and feel in the hand.  Viscaria is usually in the 90-92 range, not 93-4.  As for change, not all change is good.  If the ZJK blade was that great, maybe he would use it.

The way AMD sells their chips is not a secret, they don't try to fool or defraud anyone. They make that information public, voluntarily. It is communicated in all tech circles. Of course they don't put it on the box, who does. 

assiduous wrote: The way AMD sells their chips is not a secret, they don't try to fool or defraud anyone. They make that information public, voluntarily. It is communicated in all tech circles. Of course they don't put it on the box, who does.  This is not the same thing as BTY selling the same blade with different names secretly. If people find that ZJK is a TBS with a different handle, there will be problems and people will feel defrauded, and a lawsuit may ensue.  Why would BTY do that?? I fail to see a motive! TBS was a great selling blade in itself, very likely the best selling blade of all times. And BTY already has the best image in TT. Especially in blades.. BTY has no competition at all.  Why risk everything, what is the gain, why would a TBS with ZJK name tag be of any benefit to them. Why would ZJK agree to that. Seriously, does this make any sense to you? I want to ask you: would YOU do this if you owned BTY?

In any case, although these blades are very similar, they are clearly not identical even if the blade wood is the same because the wings are shaped a bit differently, handles have different shapes, weights and weight distributions are a bit different.  What I don't understand is why the ZJK and TB-ALC blades are more expensive than Viscaria (if you can find one) or TBS. 

1dennistt wrote: Anyone else suspect that Butterfly is selling the same blade under 4 different names? Timo Boll Spirit Timo Boll ALC Viscaria Zhang Jike