TIBHAR Evolution rubber FX-P, EL-P, MX-S, MX-P

I might slap my sheet of MX-P on the Stiga Intensity it currently share closetspace with. Might be fun to hit a couple of rockets with for sh*ts and giggles but there is no way i could expect to win more matches with a setup that fast. Not gonna bother getting an alc blade to try it out. I never really liked anything with carbon anyway.  

I am quite impressed by EL-P. I don't know how long this rubber will last but so far it performs great. It took me some time to adjust after M2 since it is weary harder but it is very good - powerful, stable, spinny, excellent control on all fast strokes

igszoctan wrote: Well, a bit off topic but I am quite interested in it so please share your thought about it. I have found Tibhar Genius rubber excellent. It produces great spin, grabbs the ball, good control and has nice sling effect. Do Evolution Rubbers behave in a similar way or they are completely different ones?

At first we should understand the fundamentals of Genius series.

Tibhar Genius is similar to Tenergy 05. Its pimple geometry is dense, and it concentrates on spin performance.
On the contrary, Tibhar Genius+ Optimum is similar to Tenergy 64. Its pimple geometry is sparse, and it pursues the balance between speed and spin.

Genius and Genius+ Optimum has been the top model of Tibhar. But, now the top models are "Evolution" series and "Q" series.
After Genius+ Optimum, the sparse pimple geometry as Tenergy 64 has neven been used by Tibhar. Both of Evolution series and Q series have dense pimple geometry of Tenergy 05 type. But, there is the difference of concept.

From the viewpoint of performance, Q series aims at Tenergy 64, and Evolution series aims at Tenergy 05.
I.e. Evolution MX-P can be considered as the improved one from Genius, and 1Q can be considered as the improved one from Genius+ Optimum.

So Evolution MX-P can be compared with Genius. However, "the newest" isn't always the best. In my opinion, some players will feel that still Genius is better than Evolution MX-P. However, without doubt top players will prefer Evolution MX-P to Genius. Evolution MX-P has what top players demand, and Genius lacks that factor.

igszoctan wrote: Thank You Igsstern . That is really helpful. You are a real expert. It is an absolutely informative and detailed answer. I could not have expected a better one.

Thank you. And, in case of 1Q, thanks to its pimple geometry, fundamentally 1Q has good ability of spin. However, the two points make it close to Tenergy 64 type.

(1) Its sponge is softer than those of Genius or Evolution MX-P.
(2) It provides enhanced speed when compared to Genius series (including both of Genius and Genius+ Optimum).

The sponge hardness of 1Q is 45.0 degree. And, that is equivalent to 34.5 degree of Butterfly standard.
The sponge hardness of Tenergy 05 and Tenergy 64 is 47.0 degree in German standard. Butterfly is writing it as 36.0 degree, and it causes confusion for many customers who don't know the difference between Butterfly standard and German standard.

I.e. the top sheet of 1Q is steel harder than those of Genius+ Optimum or Tenergy 64. However, the feeling of top sheet is softer than that of Genius, and its sponge hardness is softer than that of Genius. That makes 1Q comparable with Tenergy 64.

Frankly speaking, 1Q is much better then Tenergy 64 in many aspects. The important reason why top players who have used Tenergy 64 can't change to 1Q is that they need more than 6 months for the adjustment. Top players don't have much time for that adjustment because of their schedule.

That is the same for the rubbers of Tenergy 05 type. However, Tibhar tried to make Evolution MX-P very close to Tenergy 05, and it is quite successful. Migration from Tenergy 05 to Evolution MX-P is really easy when compared to the migration to the rubbers those have been introduced so far. Last month Tibhar succeeded to get one Korean top player - Kim Jung Hun. Kim Jung Hun is the same generation as Ryu Seung Min who is the gold medal winner of 2004 Olympic games. Kim Jung Hun started to use MX-P in important domestic tournament, and there hasn't been much trouble. (Kim Jung Hun is using MX-P on forehand side of Tibhar Stratus PowerWood, and EL-P on backhand side.)

The easy migration from Tenergy 05 to Evolution MX-P doesn't tell that MX-P is the best rubber for many players. As some members have already noticed, we can hardly tell that Tenergy 05 is really good rubber. The important advantage of Tenergy 05 is that the ball doesn't go to the net when top players attack by topspin against the backspin push of opponents who are also top players. Ordinary players can hardly experience the case that German rubbers send ball to the net. But, for top players, that has been very significant problem of German rubbers, even though those German rubbers are Tenergy type announced after mid-2009. However, Evolution MX-P doesn't send ball to the net in the same situation. In fact, that is the most important difference between Genius and Evolution MX-P.

Genius is very exciting rubber. And, without doubt Evolution MX-P is improved rubber than Genius. However, many ordinary players may feel that Evolution MX-P is less exciting than Genius. For top players, of course Evolution MX-P will be absolutely better than Genius.

(In fact, the same thing happens between adidas P7 and adidas TenZone Ultra. TenZone Ultra is comparable with Evolution MX-P, and the improvement for top players is applied for TenZone Ultra. It never sends ball to the net. But, many "ordinary" players feel that P7 is better than TenZone Ultra. Top players will of course select TenZone Ultra between those two.)

iakovka wrote: I am quite impressed by EL-P. I don't know how long this rubber will last but so far it performs great. It took me some time to adjust after M2 since it is weary harder but it is very good - powerful, stable, spinny, excellent control on all fast strokes

I like EL-P more on my TBS so far but it is a bit less forgiving than M2, especially on slow and incomplete shots

pdotec wrote: igsstern wrote: igszoctan wrote: Thank You Igsstern . That is really helpful. You are a real expert. It is an absolutely informative and detailed answer. I could not have expected a better one. Thank you. And, in case of 1Q, thanks to its pimple geometry, fundamentally 1Q has good ability of spin. However, the two points make it close to Tenergy 64 type. (1) Its sponge is softer than those of Genius or Evolution MX-P. (2) It provides enhanced speed when compared to Genius series (including both of Genius and Genius+ Optimum). The sponge hardness of 1Q is 45.0 degree. And, that is equivalent to 34.5 degree of Butterfly standard. The sponge hardness of Tenergy 05 and Tenergy 64 is 47.0 degree in German standard. Butterfly is writing it as 36.0 degree, and it causes confusion for many customers who don't know the difference between Butterfly standard and German standard. I.e. the top sheet of 1Q is steel harder than those of Genius+ Optimum or Tenergy 64. However, the feeling of top sheet is softer than that of Genius, and its sponge hardness is softer than that of Genius. That makes 1Q comparable with Tenergy 64. Frankly speaking, 1Q is much better then Tenergy 64 in many aspects. The important reason why top players who have used Tenergy 64 can't change to 1Q is that they need more than 6 months for the adjustment. Top players don't have much time for that adjustment because of their schedule. That is the same for the rubbers of Tenergy 05 type. However, Tibhar tried to make Evolution MX-P very close to Tenergy 05, and it is quite successful. Migration from Tenergy 05 to Evolution MX-P is really easy when compared to the migration to the rubbers those have been introduced so far. Last month Tibhar succeeded to get one Korean top player - Kim Jung Hun. Kim Jung Hun is the same generation as Ryu Seung Min who is the gold medal winner of 2004 Olympic games. Kim Jung Hun started to use MX-P in important domestic tournament, and there hasn't been much trouble. (Kim Jung Hun is using MX-P on forehand side of Tibhar Stratus PowerWood, and EL-P on backhand side.) The easy migration from Tenergy 05 to Evolution MX-P doesn't tell that MX-P is the best rubber for many players. As some members have already noticed, we can hardly tell that Tenergy 05 is really good rubber. The important advantage of Tenergy 05 is that the ball doesn't go to the net when top players attack by topspin against the backspin push of opponents who are also top players. Ordinary players can hardly experience the case that German rubbers send ball to the net. But, for top players, that has been very significant problem of German rubbers, even though those German rubbers are Tenergy type announced after mid-2009. However, Evolution MX-P doesn't send ball to the net in the same situation. In fact, that is the most important difference between Genius and Evolution MX-P. Genius is very exciting rubber. And, without doubt Evolution MX-P is improved rubber than Genius. However, many ordinary players may feel that Evolution MX-P is less exciting than Genius. For top players, of course Evolution MX-P will be absolutely better than Genius. (In fact, the same thing happens between adidas P7 and adidas TenZone Ultra. TenZone Ultra is comparable with Evolution MX-P, and the improvement for top players is applied for TenZone Ultra. It never sends ball to the net. But, many "ordinary" players feel that P7 is better than TenZone Ultra. Top players will of course select TenZone Ultra between those two.) I loved genius + Optimum, but it only played good for about 6 weeks, plus it took 2 weeks to break it. I guess i'm a tenergy 64 type on bh.  Bluefire m2 and m3, play similar and I found them to be more durable.  I am currently playing with 1Q-XD.  It is a bit faster and spinnier, but difficult on the short game, especially flips.  Do you know how 1Q-XD compares with 1Q and the Evolution Series.  Any suggestions would be welcome.

1Q XD is "hard sponge" version of 1Q. Tibhar developed it mostly for Asian players who like hard feeling.
As I mentioned above, 1Q has the pimple geometry of Tenergy 05 type. But, its softer sponge makes its feeling moderate. But, when it comes to 1Q XD, it becomes hard due to the pimple geometry, and the difference from Tenergy 64 becomes significantly big. Although 1Q can be compared with Tenergy 64, it isn't Tenergy 64 type in nature. And, 1Q XD is completely different rubber from Tenergy 64.

1Q or Bluefire M2 will be OK thanks to soft sponge. But, I expect that 1Q XD will be too hard for you.
In my opinion, 1Q will be much better for you than 1Q XD. And, if you can be easily accustomed to Bluefire M3, Tibhar 5Q is also considerable.

The comparison between Evolution MX-P and 1Q XD is as follows:

- 1Q XD is faster in many cases - especially in the situation of hard hitting and block.
- Evolution MX-P is much more stable when you attack with topspin.
- Top players will think that MX-P is more powerful. But, for ordinary players, the result may be different.
- Most of ordinary players will think that MX-P is slower and less powerful than 1Q XD.
- The feeling of 1Q XD is more exciting, except for the situation of topspin with strong impact.
- MX-P is much easier to use than 1Q XD. Easier but slower.
- MX-P becomes powerful when player puts strong topspin.

Simply speaking, Q series is for speed, and Evolution series is for spin & stability.

Hi Victorovich,

To tell You the truth it is a bit difficult question to answer for You because both rubbers are excellent at that feature with proper technique.
First of all, I am neither a pro player nor an expert in the subject just an enthusiastic fan so take my opinion with a pinch of salt :)
Well, as You probably know P7's hardness is somewhere between medium and hard, closer to medium, in fact. On the other hand, M3 is a pretty soft one so to some extent it requiers smaller effort to produce the same amount of spin.
I reckon, a well qualified professional player using P7 with the correct swing and decent speed or power may create greater spin but I am not sure about that.
In conclusion, You should not be worried about the spin because both rubbers excel in doing so. The difference lies in hardness as I have just mentioned and the curve of the ball or Your preference I mean M3 has a bit higher throw and a bit better at close to the table but it loses some strength at mid and far distance from the table. Anyway, both rubbers have superb control so Your decision cannot be wrong or hasty. You'd better ask real experts opinion too, for example Igsstern  or Yogi Bear.
Good Luck.
PS. Keep on practising :) That is the most important lesson I have learnt so far.

Emre (Yalcin) is using fx-p on both sides with a p700. I've tried it there was no difference between black and red. Its not that grippy like m series but much grippier than calibra series. By the way dwell time is impressive...

My experience for m2 and m3, black is grippier, higher throw.

RPS also used for Haifu Shark and Haifu Whale red sponge (same rubber as Grip-S Europe from what I have understood).

Even they are not the same rubbers I found that the Evolution MX-P had some similarities with the Whale II red sponge factory tuned.

iakovka wrote: I like EL-P more on my TBS so far but it is a bit less forgiving than M2, especially on slow and incomplete shots

I hit with EL-P for the first time today, on a friend's Maze.  It was very nice.  I actually thought it was a bit more like Tenergy 05 than MX-P, which I used to use.

I've glued on my third pair of MX-P's last week, and had a couple of practice sessions with them. Just like with the previous pairs, I  still cannot find any discernible difference between the red and black rubbers aside from colour. Same applies to Tenzones, Xiom Omega IV Asias, Vega Pros, Killerspin Fortissimos I had used in the past. IMHO, red and black rubbers feel and play the same.

Edited by vvk1 - 09/30/2013 at 7:47am

Which evolution rubber is good for modern defense for shots like forehand chopping, fishing and looping? Specially on a Victas Koji Matsushita blade. What should be the thickness?