ZJK vs. Wang Hao WTTC 2013 LGL commenting

ejmaster wrote: Ma long wasn't mentally weak at all in the whao match. He was able to change gears when things were going to a 4-0. He was able to turn the 4th set to his side going back to a fierce fh pivoting when the bh to bh rally was facing an inspired whao bh. But whao service was very good and his fh didnt fail at the time to get in. Everything that day worked to whao and Ma Long couldnt beat him. But he tried confident and changing gears. Just to feel MaLong frustration to realize it is not the day but your opponents day. This is to watch the match. Not to invent theories. Ma long himself said his handling wasn't able to beat what whao did. He is a honest guy. I had never seen whao bh flat blocking the way he did it or bh loop with such a low arc. His fh get in was also lot better than before. This is what happened.

+1 . I think Ma Long better back with TBS , his shot is under Whao( not feel heavy ) compare with Whao shot.

Perhaps I should start a new topic with this question..., but at the risk of anger some penholders (I play ph myself), I will bring back the old question of the future of penhold. We remember that poor ML got beat up by WLQ and WH by ZJK in the finals constantly, plus ZJK went thru the two top penholders easily at this world. Can ph have a future and can there be a ph world champion? Sh players have weakness but ph players just seem unable to play against their weakness. For example, ZJK has a hard time against a quicker player like ML and YA, but WH, ML, XX don't paly fast enough to win against ZJK. They are all powerful players but too slower against ZJK. If they become faster their power go down and their forehand become weak, too weak to win. Can any ph or any player be fast and powerful?...Just some random thoughts and concern for my other playing style after seeing the world.

I think the same would apply to both ph and sh. ML is quick (i.e. connecting one stroke to the next, and not necessary just topspin) but his power (quality of shot) is lower than ZJK. If he load up with power like ZJK he will be slower, right? I am just asking the question. It seems very hard, close to impossible to be quick and powerful unless you are way above the others. The answer so far tells me to choose power over quickness if you want to win, until ML wins of course!

ZingyDNA wrote: In Chinese... 3. Surprisingly, Liu says both ZJK and WH's shot quality is significantly higher than ML (1st time I heard something like that from anyone, let alone the head coach of the CNT!). He further explains that Zhang and Wang's shots are lower and closer to the net, thus more likely to win points (that's how "quality" is defined, I guess ), even though their shots are riskier at the same time. This is why rallies are shorter between ZJK and WH while Ma Long tends to have long rallies.

ttTurkey wrote: xzws wrote: ttTurkey wrote: xzws wrote: ttTurkey wrote: ZJK was once thrown out of the CNT because of arrogance That's most likely not the case. The rumor has it that he was kicked out because of gambling. Take a look at 33:38 Please read between the lines. The video never really talked about the true reason of kicking him out. You don't dismiss a player only because he is arrogant. There must have been a particular incident. Several journalists tried to ask ZJK and his family about the true story. They always evaded the question and only would say that ZJK wasn't mature enough and made some mistake(s). There are many rumors about it. All the versions I have seen have something to do with gambling. Absolutely, if LGL says on camera that ZJK was sent back to his provincial team for being "arrogant, conceited and impetuous", I will read between the lines and conclude that he has a gambling problem and that he had an affair with another team member (as someone else posted). I've also been around long enough to know that everybody talks in coded messages and doesn't say what they mean. But in this case, as crazy as it sounds, I perhaps think that LGL may have been telling the truth to fool everyone. I know, I know...

When most people are impressed with Ma Long's forehand, it has much more to do with Ma Long's counterlooping ability, not the actual stroke quality. None of us have blocked Ma Long's forehand so none of us can tell how much spin he generates. But he is the best counterlooper in the world. Sometimes, ZJK and Xu Xin get there but that is Ma Long's world. What his CNT opponents can do better is that knowing his game, they can play to his weaknesses better than others can. He often cannot keep the ball short more than once in a rally, especially on his forehand. Yan An exploited this. Wang Hao exploited a weakness with reverse service receive (at least for that one match).

Hopefully, some of the people who always talk about trying to loop like Ma Long will note that his pace is not the only way to win the point.

BeaverMD wrote: ttTurkey wrote: xzws wrote: ttTurkey wrote: xzws wrote: ttTurkey wrote: ZJK was once thrown out of the CNT because of arrogance That's most likely not the case. The rumor has it that he was kicked out because of gambling. Take a look at 33:38 Please read between the lines. The video never really talked about the true reason of kicking him out. You don't dismiss a player only because he is arrogant. There must have been a particular incident. Several journalists tried to ask ZJK and his family about the true story. They always evaded the question and only would say that ZJK wasn't mature enough and made some mistake(s). There are many rumors about it. All the versions I have seen have something to do with gambling. Absolutely, if LGL says on camera that ZJK was sent back to his provincial team for being "arrogant, conceited and impetuous", I will read between the lines and conclude that he has a gambling problem and that he had an affair with another team member (as someone else posted). I've also been around long enough to know that everybody talks in coded messages and doesn't say what they mean. But in this case, as crazy as it sounds, I perhaps think that LGL may have been telling the truth to fool everyone. I know, I know...     Now see, this is the kind of stuff we really should be covering much more in mytt.  Here in the U.S., gambling organizations i.e. mafia, gangsters can have a basketball player or hockey player in their pockets.  The player does not necessarily have to dump the match.  He can play in such a way where his team wins by 5 points rather than destroying the opposing team (point shaving).  When a sport gets big enough, point shaving even happens in youth soccer, little league baseball, etc.  I wonder if TT has reached this level in China.  I know it happens in lawn tennis.

The rumors I heard about ZJK was NOT about match fixing.  And I wouldn't believe he had gambled on TT.  Never heard of gambling on TT in China.  On the other hand, the underground gambling on local and international soccer games is quite popular in China.  DISCLAIMER: I am not saying ZJK gambled on any sports.

I've been listening to a lot of coaches comment and even LGL on the WTTC
So many words are use about the Mentalality state of the players. "心态" or Hsin Tai.

So for the ones that think there is no problem with the players, LGL and co thinks otherwise

I have read all comments on this forum and decide to post for the first time. I think I understand what exactly happened to ml failure because I experienced it. I have play table tennis on and off for over 15 years. My style include block and attack from both wings. My forehand is way stronger than than my backhand but my natural shots, shots that I started out to learn table tennis is my backhand. It is the shot I can rely on anyday. However, when I got nervous during tournament, I can become stiff and can't use my forehand to loop. It the case to ml. Over the years I watched him play, when he lost bad to players that he normally would beat them, he got too nervous and didn't play his normal level. Ones can see throughout this world tournament he had avoided using backhand or missing many of the back hand against all of his opponents. They all know it but wh is the one that make him felt awkward and completely break down. It was a sad truth and ml knew it. He become more nervous because he faced opponents that he had lost to before. From niiwa to tb to wh especially wh who beat him twice at the same stage. Wh definitely played well. Maybe the best since 09. Wh game is always stable and balance. Once ml got nervous and be himself, he might as well lost the match before it was start. I think ml can only able to play 60 percent and wh played at 100 percent. Zy played the game just like wh balance and well control but better wh in blocking aspect. In a long run, zy will beat wh more. It all come down personality. Ml is introvert. He want to win badly so he become nervous when facing challenge matchs. His game is pure power. Sometime he got nervous he can't relax thus he messed up his backhand. He have been practice bh more lately but his forehand is a natural shot just like wl. So in conclusion, ml lost to wh because of mental issue. He is a professional player and played thousand matchs but still get nervous because he is a human. I'm sure we all get nervous and perform lower out level during our Tt match. Please understand and felt sympathy toward ma long instead criticized about him. After all he might be the best talent Tt player out here.

welcome to the forum; I agree with all you wrote too. I still want to give credit to WH for being able to squeeze ML, make him groggy and not give him a chance to play his real game; it takes talent, experience and strong willpower to do that to (one of) the very best players out there and WH made it happen.