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How should I Coach someone in a match? |
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4952 |
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Isn't it funny that AHex always deflects the question about his playing experience ? He just posts more questions.
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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pingpongpaddy
Gold Member Joined: 06/27/2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1286 |
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Hum Embarrassing!!! I better set this straight, sorry to disappoint, but I have not played internationally, I have a strong interest in training,tactics & strategy in most, especially racket sports Like Wiggy, I have had a life in TT and enjoyed every minute of it. I try and pass on what knowledge I have gained, and am happy to help anyone who wants to be helped. I am not as good as wiggy by any means but in enthusiasm for TT I am pushing him close !! Edited by pingpongpaddy - 09/30/2013 at 8:47am |
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inactive dotec carbokev
yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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I hope you realize this is a trick question. Someone who's ostensibly good level and still doesn't understand having goals for developing players in match and to coach to those goals is about as embarrassing as teaching for a living yet failing to grasp basic pedagogy. This theme's been repeated enough that it really shouldn't work anymore. BTW, you really shouldn't group APW with the rest. He actually cares about grasping what's going on in the conversation.
Let me explain. Your reply doesn't address the reasonably specific points made in my post, which is not in keeping with someone who understands what is being said, thus my query if anything in particular was difficult. For an example, consider APW's posts esp in the other thread which either contend the points made with arguments. Compare this to whatever the hell's going on here.
Again, how does this in any way address not understanding how TT works?
Results do not necessary imply understanding. A good jr with far less "experience" and play will still beat these guys, so what is the takeaway there? As to whether understanding matters, I would argue it rather does for coaching compared to playing. The jr above might well make an even worse coach. Finally, it's generally not contentious what said "do you know who I am" attitude deserves in return.
It's most important for those with limited time/effort to understand what they're doing. Edited by AgentHEX - 09/29/2013 at 5:50pm |
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pingpongpaddy
Gold Member Joined: 06/27/2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1286 |
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You seem to resent people stating that they are qualified
yet Its interesting that in the "Beginner Group Coach thread" you advised the coach that he wasn't good enough and that he should go get somebody stronger. you said that it didn't look good for a 1200 guy to be advising a 1000 class. So how do you justify a '1569.71' guy like yourself putting yourself forward as knowing better than a bunch of guys rated 2000 and more? Shouldn't we characterise you as a big head? |
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inactive dotec carbokev
yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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Yes I mock people who feel they're qualified yet fail to grasp simple things.
Yes, a 1200 player is likely to have poor TT form himself and thus in poor position to teach this important basic thing to students. This shouldn't be controversial.
Personally I would've thought playing with my shiny metal ass is the more questionable part of the sig, but regardless this is a different sort of issue as reiterated above. Knowing better seems like a pretty straightforward case here. To be clear, I'm not claiming any sort of advanced knowledge, just that the understanding of some are quite poor. Edited by AgentHEX - 09/29/2013 at 7:02pm |
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pingpongpaddy
Gold Member Joined: 06/27/2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1286 |
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That is just based on false assumptions on your part. As when you mention preprepared game plans, and then act as such a thing could only come from you. when in fact this is a standard part of any coaches method. On service return most coaches I know would agree that if a player has a problem reading spin serves, It is impractical to deal with it with complicated instruction. So we have as part of general match preparation, that to deal with a difficult serve the player should "Hit through the spin" (i hope you know what this means) with a good margin for error, to the centre of the table. This is the kind of typical back story to teaching noobie match players. Because we can deal with serve return with that kind of short phrase, it gives time for other advice or confidence boosting that is required. Of course sometimes the instructions fail to hit the spot. But over time coach and pupil develop an efficient dialog The general tenor of your remarks implies rather insincerely I think, that we are ignorant of this kind of thing but I can assure you that we are up to speed Edited by pingpongpaddy - 09/29/2013 at 7:36pm |
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inactive dotec carbokev
yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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Speaking of assumptions, why would you assume this when I've claimed no such thing?
Who said anything about complicated instruction? Sometime a coach is just in a better position to observe how a serve is tricky or misread.
No, the general tenor in my remark is astonishment that advice from self-described experts misses out on the most important aspect of coaching in a match: coach to the game plan, not vague general platitudes. A student focused on what he has to do will be more calm & collected and these issues sort themselves out for people who have a handle on the situation. Btw, please try to avoid colors on random parts of the text since it makes inline quotes more confusing. Edited by AgentHEX - 09/29/2013 at 7:50pm |
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pingpongpaddy
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Please give 2 examples of the vague general platitudes given as advice in this thread.
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inactive dotec carbokev
yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
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AgentHEX
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Compared to specific pointers about what the student is currently working on, I struggle to find advice by others in this thread that isn't so broad as to be uninteresting.
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cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6899 |
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I don't think I'd get into game planning at that level. The game plan is move into position to hit a shot in good form.
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Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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pingpongpaddy
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You are losing the thread. Noobies in respect of spin, we teach about spin. If they are noobies in other respects we teach about that too! Surely you've got the idea by now. |
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inactive dotec carbokev
yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
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AgentHEX
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Generally in teaching, a game plan (aka lesson plan) should exist whether the student is aware or not. Humans usually learn better when they focus on one thing, and a plan should reflect this. For example, if the current focus in an english class is on certain aspects of grammar, expounding on composition or spelling is not a good path to direct a student's efforts, especially if time is of the essence. |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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I have no idea what you're arguing. |
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BMonkey
Gold Member Joined: 11/28/2008 Status: Offline Points: 1015 |
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Sad to see what was intended to be a useful and informative thread being derailed into a flame war to satisfy someone's personal agenda.
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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Perhaps true if you have low enough standards for useful and informative.
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4952 |
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http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22290&start=15 Now he's steam shoveling on two continents. |
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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Great catch, JT. He actually reveals his rating/level there.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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It's quite noticeable how many fewer jt99 types are over there. Too bad the threads move a lot slower.
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4952 |
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No one knows if he's telling the truth. Perhaps he's the CNT's secret hitting partner. |
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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My level's never been much of a secret except to mock Dunning-Kruger posterkids. You know, the sort who mostly rely on people-drama instead of substance and then blame others when they look incompetent.
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4952 |
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You are world class when it comes to people drama on this forum. You just don't get it. |
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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No, unfortunately you and pals are quite capable of epic people drama without me. The only difference here is that I mercilessly mock such embarrassing behavior. More unfortunately still some folks are apparently slower than pavlov's subjects.
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NextLevel
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4952 |
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The Keyword is WITHOUT YOU. You still don't get it.
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4952 |
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@OP, I hope this is helpful for you:
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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AgentHEX
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Yes, a lot of people drama happens with or without me. One of these days you might figure out what this means, but I wouldn't bet on it. |
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BMonkey
Gold Member Joined: 11/28/2008 Status: Offline Points: 1015 |
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AgentHEX
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No, he meant to send it to someone who he feels is a worse player. |
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BMonkey
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Speedplay
Premier Member Joined: 07/11/2006 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 3405 |
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Obviously it is, cause if you actually believes in this, then we must be taking about noob levels. At any decent level, a tricky serve is only tricky if it is disguised, making it look like another serve. So, even if the coach is able to catch on to it, how is he, in less then 60 seconds, going to teach the player this? If a certain serve looks like backspin, but carries topspin (or no spin) instead and this tricks the player, it should only trick him once, unless the same motion is used to actually serve a backspin serve every now and then, the trick is deception, not putting spin on the ball. Also, you seem to confuse match coaching with coaching during sessions and these two are very different from each other. If the pupil have a hard time flipping short serves, this might be exactly what you tell him to do for an entire session, but it would hardly be helpful as match coaching... |
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