backhand attack

Players tend to recover to their favored wing as a default starting position for their next stroke. It is very evident in basement level players and gets less so as you climb the ranks because it has been drilled out as a more balanced game is developed. It still shows though, even at the top and when players are under pressure.

V-Griper wrote: APW46 wrote: Players tend to recover to their favored wing as a default starting position for their next stroke. It is very evident in basement level players and gets less so as you climb the ranks because it has been drilled out as a more balanced game is developed. It still shows though, even at the top and when players are under pressure.  But recovering to a neutral default position is only needed when you have not read your opponents intentions, and will slow you down if you recover there when you could buy time by flowing straight into your next stroke, just watch Kreanga, applying a bh to F/h combination here on 21sec http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oocz71IhxkI he flows straight into an early set up on his f/hand, because he has kept the angle of play to his opponents f/hand, meaning the return has to be coming towards his f/hand wing, it cannot be going away from it because of (a) the contact point of his opponent with the ball. and (b) his opponent has to hit the table, so even if his opponent plays towards kreanga's b/hand, the ball will be at best going down the line. both players are off the table, so there is more time, and the probability that Kreanga is going to get the opportunity to play a f/hand is high, his brain takes him where he needs to be. Once a player gets to the level where he/she can read the angle of play, and read their opponent they will be able to subconsciously set up for the next stroke, the default neutral recovery position only being evident when its the best option in a wonderfully developed subconscious control of the hand. We all know how to acquire this talent, drill drill drill, lots of random/semi random.  Do you mean stuff like this?

I must say it seemed a bit of a stress test. That is, it was a bit too fast to allow WH to transfer his weight with any emphasis. His coach seemed to enjoy it though

A subject of great interest to me so I thought I'd chime in.

So I had no backhand until I was 16 years old (believe it or not I was a forehand pivoter before then HA!!) but learned one summer. I didn't receive such good technical stroke coaching until late in my career so it was probably an advantage not to learn backhand topspin until so late as I didn't have years of muscle memory to change. Muscle memory is of course the frustrating phenomenon that makes you revert to your bad old technique at 9-9..

Since then I have developed it many times with the goal of trying to make it as efficient as effective as possible. The way I play my backhand is not the only way to play backhand or probably the best way. It has however been the shot that has allowed me to play evenly with top players who are much better than me at 99% of the rest of the shots.

I don't subscribe to the theory that the technique I use has been given to me and that the simple concepts upon which it relies on can't be simply taught to others. The shot relies on a few simple concepts, most notably using a large rotation of a relaxed, loose wrist. I've found it interesting seeing how the top Chinese players have progressively used more and more wrist on their backhand over the past 10 years. Compare WLQ with Zhang Jike! In fact one of the top European coaches who has seen me play for many years commented not long ago that I was a long way ahead of the curve on my backhand.

My technique has it's fair share of criticisers (just look at the youtube comments!). Even though I disagree with almost all of the reasons in those comments I know from personal experience that it's far from perfect.

The reason the wrist is so important is that it allows flexibility and reusability across many shots. For example you can use a very similar shot on the backhand sidespin flick, topspin against push, topspin against block and backhand counterspin. You can start your shot in similar positions and use the same moving parts with similar timing. If you look at players in the 70s and 80s, there was almost no wrist movement and also few different attacking shots they could with their backhands. These days almost all top players are able to play full blooded backhand topspins against short serves!

I'd suggest everyone take a look at Wang Hao's multiball video and looks what is happening with his body position on the balls he misses (look at 0:15 and 0:22). FWIW I really like his backhand - it's one of the best. So stable, such good, quick efficient use of the wrist. Pen grippers can have an advantage here as the way they hold the racket encourages good wrist rotation.

Edited by ttEDGE - William - 01/19/2014 at 6:14am

Hi William
I just refreshed my memory on your bh counterhit & bh topspin against block tutorials.
They seem the epitome of simple technique.
Your key point:- "Versatile technique" seems to emphasize how the old concept of 'grooving' strokes could limit one in developing a bh that is as happy counter hitting with a punch, as it is spinning without inhibition, even though this means moving the bat through distinctly different planes. I am going to point one of my pupils towards your vids, as though his fh flows well, he is finding difficulty in expressing himself with his bh. He cant decide whether to be a 'puncher' or a 'spinner' on the bh. Maybe an approach of embracing both techniques though entailing more work at first, will be a solution.

Hmm... we'll see if it goes anywhere. It would just be nice for him to be as natural with his bh as his fh

@Tinkykin - I hope I didn't inspire Pitchfords backhand. I've played him twice and, if I have won any sets, it hasn't been many! But I doubt it - more wrist is a natural evolution as the game continues to speed up and players need faster more efficient technique. I do find it personally very fulfilling to see technique improving in front of my eyes.

Punching and counterspinning / topspinning is not an either or equation. Ironically, my backhand punch has always been weak (I know what to do but my hand/arm/whatever just can't do it well) which is a shame. But by keeping your racket high you can comfortably play both the backhand punch or backhand kick with a very similar starting position. SOO that in turn gives you more time to choose which to use, as long as the starting position is similar. Just look at some videos of the top players and you'll see they comfortably mix between the two at the last moment. The larger your stroke and the more different your starting position then the more difficult it will be of course.

I agree that one side is generally dominant at the detriment of the other side. Not sure what can be done as focusing more on one side gives you more time to prepare and favour that shot. Zhang Jike has done well with a comparatively weaker forehand. And absolutely - mixing placement will reward you. You raise the difficulty for the opponent greatly with a relatively small risk increase in your own shot. I talk about this A LOT in m blogs and ttEDGE videos.

pingpongpaddy wrote: ttedge wrote: Punching and counterspinning / topspinning is not an either or equation. agreed but coaching at amateur level I often find players who feel that an attack without topspin is a failure, resulting in loss of opportunity to smash or punch.

I think this is true and in more general terms, it sometimes seems like amateur players emulate their favorite pros, but only see the flashy stuff they do.  It is like all the crucial "small shots" the pros make are invisible. There are several former US national team players at my club and I have learned to be especially impressed by their incredible returns of serve, controlled slow loops and the little things they do to set up bigger shots (which are not always big topspins).  I have seen lots of amateur players get unhappy with themselves after playing a perfect reasonably shot (especially for them) because they did not rip it the way they imagine Timo Boll would have. You see the same ideas coming out here sometimes in comments also.

There's no simple measure of what is too floppy as it depends on what shot you are trying to play. For example you'll have more wrist rotation when you are topspinning a backspin push than when kicking over the top of the ball when the opponent topspins at you.

I think it becomes too floppy when a player tries to use the same wrist rotation for each backhand topspin variation or when a player uses wrist rotation but has the follow-through going in the wrong direction.

In a perfect world where you've got time to play optimal technique then yes, yes, yes!! There will be times when you're so short on time that you've just got to rip the wrist through. Such as when you get a fast, long heavy backspin push to the deep backhand. In that circumstance you've may have to rely on the wrist only, for example if you're caught too close to the table.

General rule I think is that the big muscles steer the movements and initial acceleration, and that the faster parts (wrist, forearm) give you that extra 10%.

Hi puppy. I agree with your thoughts. I think the main issue players have with backhand is that it can't be muscled in like a forehand attack can. There's less tolerance for poor timing which makes it seem like the better option to hold back and play safe. As you mention, many players try to use the same concepts (large powerful swing) in their backhand which just leaves you out of time. I do think however that with the right understanding of the moving parts involved, the right shot length and the right feel for timing, anyone can train up a good backhand topspin.

Zhang Jike and Ma Long are topspinning whenever they can. It's an interesting comparison as Zhang uses more wrist (he's more European in his technique in general) whereas Ma Long uses more forearm.

I found Tang Peng tough to play. No doubt he is a very good player. He had good chances to beat Xu Xin in the 7th set later that day. I was surprised by how deceptive his use of the short pimples on his backhand was. He mixes the pace and height of his backhands very well, taking the pace off or hitting harder, and sometimes kicking up on the ball to make it kick. I hadn't played against short pips for a long time beforehand and I found it difficult. I was competitive in the match, losing 4-2, but didn't really have him under pressure at any time.