backhand attack

The reason you block the ball instead of being able to topspin back is that you're not taking a backswing prior to making contact with the incoming ball. Without a backswing, you only have time to stick the paddle out for a block.

GeneralSpecific wrote: ANCHORFREE_VERSION="633161526"var _AF2$ = {'SN':'HSSHIELD00US','IP':'85.237.212.185','CH':'HSSCNL000232','CT':'XX','HST':'&toAdltIntr=1','AFH':'hss200','RN':Math.floor(Math.random()*999),'TOP':(parent.location!=document.location||top.location!=document.location)?0:1,'AFVER':'2.25','fbw':false,'FBWCNT':0,'FBWCNTNAME':'FBWCNT_FIREFOX','NOFBWNAME':'NO_FBW_FIREFOX','B':'f','VER': 'us'};if(_AF2$.TOP==1){document.write("");} Leshxa wrote: The reason you block the ball instead of being able to topspin back is that you're not taking a backswing prior to making contact with the incoming ball. Without a backswing, you only have time to stick the paddle out for a block. Sorry Leshxa I and William Henzell disagree. These two videos of his are easily the best backhand coaching videos on youtube right now.

Leshxa wrote: The reason you block the ball instead of being able to topspin back is that you're not taking a backswing prior to making contact with the incoming ball. Without a backswing, you only have time to stick the paddle out for a block.

GeneralSpecific wrote: Leshxa wrote: The reason you block the ball instead of being able to topspin back is that you're not taking a backswing prior to making contact with the incoming ball. Without a backswing, you only have time to stick the paddle out for a block. Sorry Leshxa I and William Henzell disagree. These two videos of his are easily the best backhand coaching videos on youtube right now.

I don't see the question in the OP as the technique problem. I see it as a mental issue. Why is this player unable to initiate a second backhand shot, even though he seems to be able to execute it properly in training? That is how I came up with the answer. If its not technique, then its either timing or position that is not allowing the player to execute a proper technical stroke. Hence, my answer.

APW46 and pingpongpaddy are much more experienced than I and seem to agree with my advice. I think this answer is probably the most precise one for the OPs question. But I would recommend anyone to listen to APW46 and pingpongpaddy even before looking at my suggestions any day.


Edited by Leshxa - 11/13/2013 at 8:15am

Hard to diagnose without seeing someone play.  But there is a person at our club I knew who couldn't seem to hit more than one good backhand in a row.  In his case the problem was he was reaching a bit too far forward on the first BH, and because his footwork isn't great, he is a bit out of balance for the next one when it comes back, and so isn't able to drive the ball again.  He got better when he figured out to wait just a bit longer and take the ball a little closer to his body.

The back swing and leg loading need to be done by the time the ball is bouncing on your side of the table. Could be a timing problem. It's likely you are too close to the table so you feel as though you don't have enough time to execute a BH TS shot. If that is not the case then it's psychological and you are defaulting to a block in match play because your not confident that your TS BH is going to make the table. Besides training scenarios, you might need to take more conscious control of it during match play to override your blocking until you build more confidence. 

to OP: opening BH topspin and rally counter topspin are very different shots. If you try to use the same technique you will always fail. I know what you mean because I had exact same problem. I practiced with my robot and learned to open with BH loop on virtually any serve, and yet could not do BH counters during rallies.

Geardaddy gave good advice.

What you're trying to do is an advanced shot. It requires for you to master quite a few things: perfect timing, drop and semi-drop shots, being able to hit high with the same stroke, positioning, weighing in your power according to the speed of the incoming ball.

Edited by Lestat - 11/16/2013 at 12:24am

NextLevel wrote: tt4me wrote: I would watch Michael Tsai He has one of the prettiest BH I have seen. Henzel is good but what I don't like about his BH is that his paddle is always changing angles or attitude so is very timing dependent.  It works for him but I don't think it is a good example for novices. So how many novices have you taught the BH topspin and concluded that Henzel's technique is hard to teach?

NextLevel wrote: OK, tt4me.  I think my point has been made.

I suggest trying to block more and increase strength gradually. Then start on looping with back spin then to rally. Skipping those step might make you miss the basic.

tt4me wrote: @Baal,  here is a question that some one in your field might be able to answer.  How consistent do you think people are at timing when they hit a ball?   For instance if a robot was setup to shoot a ball every second and a person would told to hit the ball every second when a strobe went off,  how consistent do you think they would be?  Do you think they would be consistent within 20 millisecond or longer?   What if the test was made more realistic so the ball was shot at in consistent intervals so the player couldn't get into a rythm but the strobe always went off a fixed time after the ball was shot.  Now how consistent do you think the player would be?

This is an interesting question and an interesting test and I don't know the answer but if I was guessing, I would not be surprised if it fell right around 20-50 ms, as you suggested.  But I am just guessing, and don't have a lot of confidence that I am correct on this point. 

Yesterday I was hitting with Jim Butler (who has one of the great BHs you will ever see, but the way).  At the maximum pace I am able to reliably play, he almost never mistimes and I do.  Jim started playing when he was about five years old.  The more simple the stroke, the fewer "degrees of freedom" that will cause timing errors.  Jim often talks about a "floppy" BH being an erratic BH.  But I don't think he would say William Henzell's BH is floppy, and there needs to be enough backswing to generate power, even if you time things perfectly, so there is a tradeoff.  Henzell's video emphasizes keeping head steady, and consistency in where the stroke starts (except for height). 

The key is whatever stroke you do, you need to know two things:  (1) where the ball is, and (2) where your hands are.  It is easier to know where your hands are on BH side, so a much greater diversity of strokes can be effective, it seems to me.  What becomes a problem is if you are significantly changing the way you hit the ball every time, because in that case you need to know a third thing also, which is (3) what kind of stroke and I going to use this time to connect (1) with (2).  And if you have to do that, you are hosed.  William Henzell never has to worry about (3) because his basic stroke is flawlessly engrained, and the rest of what is required are minor variations.     

wturber wrote: As I've experimented, I've begun think that perhaps a more important consideration than wrist action for shot consistency is having a consistent starting point. With the goal of addressing that, I've begun to try to always bring my racket to my middle and touch the edge of it with the fingers of my left hand.  It's a form of "reset".  I also try to keep the racket at or near this central location as long as I can. I find this encourages me to first move my feet to get to the ball rather than my hands.  This seems to be helping with my struggles to improve my footwork.  So APW46's comments/observations seem pretty spot on from where I sit.

Edited by NextLevel - 11/18/2013 at 5:45pm

Going back to my post above, you need to always know where your hands are and where the ball is.   That trick Jay uses to have a constant starting point probably helps him to know where his hands are!  So it should help.   I try to make sure the hands are high so I don't lose track of them.  Proprioception of the hands is not always good enough when if you are off by a few millimeters it can mess up your shot.  A lot of people drop their hands in their ready position and it means they will mistime more on both sides.