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The Quest for Lighter Rubbers

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    Posted: 01/07/2014 at 9:22am
I currently use a Maze with T05 on FH and Rakza 7 Soft on BH. This works pretty well (perhaps a little too fast in the short game), but there is one significant problem: it's too heavy, and particularly too head-heavy. I had an operation on my wrist a few years ago, and it seems I am in danger of damaging my wrist again (my doctor tells me) if I continue to put such strain on it.

So, I need your help in searching for lighter rubbers that still do the job well enough. I'm not minded to change the Maze: the balance is actually nearer the handle than any other BTY ALC blades I've tried, and it suits my loopy game well. It is 85g in any event, which is fine. T05 Max is 48g cut to the Maze, and R7S 2.0 is 43g. I'd like to cut weight on both sides, and more than just a gram or two. It needs to be an appreciable difference. The questions:

1) which rubbers act as good substitutes for T05 for a strong FH-oriented looper, but are also significantly lighter?
2) which rubbers act as good BH rubbers for punching, blocking, occasional looping, but are lighter than R7S?

(A note on my game: former top-ranked national junior, stopped playing for some years, now playing in regional premier division and national league. Left-handed looper, weaker backhand. Think Gatien.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2014 at 10:30am
Xiom Vega Europe for your BH. Even lighter with 2.0
There is no substitute for T05. Try 1.9.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2014 at 10:33am
What a great question and a super answer from zhejie. Thanks to both. I am going to enjoy that thread. The post glue ban era has put so much weight on our setups.
The nano spin rubbers are light compared to today's average looping rubbers. Also the cheap lkt rapid speed for the bh are light.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tabten5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2014 at 10:41am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

What a great question and a super answer from zhejie. Thanks to both. I am going to enjoy that thread. The post glue ban era has put so much weight on our setups.
The nano spin rubbers are light compared to today's average looping rubbers. Also the cheap lkt rapid speed for the bh are light.

Zhejie's reply came to me via PM. Not sure whether that was intentional on his part or not - perhaps he can repost it in this thread? As Fatt says, it's an excellent response.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2014 at 10:45am
He edited his post and deleted its content. We had to hide the empty post...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ztec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2014 at 11:08am
Not to say that they're going to be similar to T05, but Stiga Calibra rubbers are quite light. I've enjoyed Calibra Spin on my backhand. I haven't tried the new Calibra Tour rubbers yet so I don't know the weight in comparison, but perhaps others who have used both can shed light on that. 
Your play will change your opinion of your equipment more than your equipment will change your opinion of your play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tabten5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2014 at 11:11am
Originally posted by ztec ztec wrote:

Not to say that they're going to be similar to T05, but Stiga Calibra rubbers are quite light. I've enjoyed Calibra Spin on my backhand. I haven't tried the new Calibra Tour rubbers yet so I don't know the weight in comparison, but perhaps others who have used both can shed light on that. 

Thanks. I didn't get on with Calibra (either Spin or Tour M/S) when I tried it at the club - it does feel very different to Tenergy, and Rakza too. It's very fast, nowhere near as much spin, lower throw, no dwell. I didn't like it personally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2014 at 11:22am
Also Stiga Boost TC and TS are light rubbers. TS is a bit softer than TC and is great on BH. The lightest rubber I have seen is Innova Light, however the spin is low but control high. Suitable for lower levels or blockers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2014 at 1:27pm
Try TSP Agrit for backhand. Opinions have it as a hybrid of traditional Japanese non-porous sponge with the snap of German Tensor minus the hollow feel

The Max(2.15-2.2) weighs about 40g cut to a Stiga CL headsize
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2014 at 4:21pm
Andro hexer powersponge on backhand spinny fast good in everything yet durable. And keep the 05 on FH. You feel it very light, i tried this combo before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2014 at 4:47pm
I'm currently trying T25FX on BH.

I have two identical blades and the 25FX BH blade is a lot lighter.

I have read T25FX described as T05 light; I agree. I'm liking it. ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2014 at 5:23pm
As a fan of light rubbers...

The light hard sponge rubbers are the Japanese non Tenergy rubbers. Nittaku and Stiga are your best bet. There is a relative power reduction with lighter sponges so be warned. My favorites are the Nittakus, currently Narucross GS even though that is ESN, a Japanese approach definitely informed it. Nanospin 2 deserves recognition, but with a warning about the break in period. I never got the best spin out of my thicker spongy sheets.

In softer sponges, especially medium soft, there is more variety. Here, I think even Tenergy is passable but for lighter rubbers, go with Xiom, Nittaku, Stiga or even Joola.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tabten5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2014 at 5:27pm
Thanks for the suggestions so far. My provisional conclusion is that I cannot significantly lower the weight without adversely affecting my game. As many say, T05 is difficult to replace, and I rely on my FH a great deal - it's my match-winning shot. The only other setup I've ever found that worked is speed-glued Mark V. So, T05 stays.

As for BH, it turns out that Rakza 7 Soft is a fairly light modern rubber. If I use it in red, the 2.0 sponge comes out at 41g cut to the Maze. That's pretty darn good. I also get it for free, so it would have to be a substantially better and lighter BH rubber for me to start paying for it. I don't think that exists right now.

What I have done, however, is get a lighter blade: an 85g Viscaria. If the balance is roughly equal to the Maze, it should hopefully result in a very small reduction in wrist strain during a match. I'm also hopeful that the Viscaria should be equally effective for my game as the Maze, given it is seen as softer and dwellier than a TBS on average (which I can also play with, but prefer something ever-so-slightly softer.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2014 at 9:35pm
I've had some terrible wrist problems in the past too, mostly from snapping so hard on under spin serves. 

Just one or two of these 2g tungsten weights on the bottom of the handle help the head heaviness a lot and even add a bit of control.  A double length sweat wrist band folded in half flexes just enough.  I've tried taping and stronger wrist guards but they are too locked.

These two things helped my wrist more than anything else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2014 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by eonblue eonblue wrote:

I've had some terrible wrist problems in the past too, mostly from snapping so hard on under spin serves. 

I've done that before - felt like the wrist popped out of place for a second.   Fortunately it doesn't happen too often, but when it does I lose the point unless my opponent misses the table completely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2014 at 11:58pm
Originally posted by eonblue eonblue wrote:

I've had some terrible wrist problems in the past too, mostly from snapping so hard on under spin serves. 

Just one or two of these 2g tungsten weights on the bottom of the handle help the head heaviness a lot and even add a bit of control.  A double length sweat wrist band folded in half flexes just enough.  I've tried taping and stronger wrist guards but they are too locked.

These two things helped my wrist more than anything else.

I once sprained my wrist doing a sidespin/underspin serve and it literally was in pain for months.

Thanks for the product tip, wasn't familiar with those
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/09/2014 at 3:38am
I normally play with heavier rubbers (Tenergy 05 or Donic Barracuda), however, starting this week I am testing Juic Nano Spin II.  It is much lighter than those rubbers -- in fact, it's been a long time since I've handled any rubber that feels so light.  It does take some adjustment, though, as it is a low throw rubber and I am used to high throw rubbers.

Anyway, I would recommend trying it for a light rubber.  At the moment I'm using it on the Juic Stellan Bengtsson Alpha and that setup has very good feel as well as light weight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roulage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/09/2014 at 5:35am
I heard that some players glue their rubbers 1-2 cm up to the end of grip where is none playing area anymore. It is said they save 10-15 gr - especially with heavy rubbers. Has anybody such experience ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/09/2014 at 7:21am
a very light bh rubber is ritc focus 3 snipe. also genius sound, aurus sound, adidas P3, stiga calibra sound
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/09/2014 at 11:23am
Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

Originally posted by eonblue eonblue wrote:

I've had some terrible wrist problems in the past too, mostly from snapping so hard on under spin serves. 

Just one or two of these 2g tungsten weights on the bottom of the handle help the head heaviness a lot and even add a bit of control.  A double length sweat wrist band folded in half flexes just enough.  I've tried taping and stronger wrist guards but they are too locked.

These two things helped my wrist more than anything else.

I once sprained my wrist doing a sidespin/underspin serve and it literally was in pain for months.

Thanks for the product tip, wasn't familiar with those


Another - more readily available - item is sticky (adhesive) magnetic tape sold at Staples, Sears and hardware stores. Like this one

http://www.staples.com/office/supplies/StaplesProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogIdentifier=2&partNumber=69368

or this

http://www.dickblick.com/items/61413-1011/?clickTracking=true&wmcp=google&wmcid=items&wmckw=61413-1011&CAWELAID=520010530000019837&catargetid=520010530000188127

The advantage is that you can cut whatever shape you need out of this tape - it is very soft. For instance you might want to cut the oval shape identical to the bottom of your handle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/09/2014 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by roulage roulage wrote:

I heard that some players glue their rubbers 1-2 cm up to the end of grip where is none playing area anymore. It is said they save 10-15 gr - especially with heavy rubbers. Has anybody such experience ?
 
I would think this might make it actually feel heavier by shifting the balance upward.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/09/2014 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Originally posted by roulage roulage wrote:

I heard that some players glue their rubbers 1-2 cm up to the end of grip where is none playing area anymore. It is said they save 10-15 gr - especially with heavy rubbers. Has anybody such experience ?
 
I would think this might make it actually feel heavier by shifting the balance upward.

+1.  Doing that doesn't make any sense...Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/10/2014 at 2:34am
This Stiga Innova Ultra Light must be very light. I have it on Stiga Offensive Wood NCT Cpen BH and H3 FH. Total weight is just 159g, the lightest in my collection. Second lightest is a 161g Stiga Intensity NCT Cpen with Calibra Tour M FH and T64 BH. I did not weight the blades as I ordered them assembled but they must be very light as well. Most of my Cpens setup are close to 190g.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smarta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/10/2014 at 4:51pm
for bh:donic coppa silver x3, very light 37 gr cutted 150x157, soft sponge, speedglue effect
for fh: tibhar genius sound
blade: yinhe galaxy t-11+

fh: sigmaIIeurope 2.0 mm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttping85 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/10/2014 at 8:44pm
the latest tensors are all very heavy. The Calibra Tour Series are quite light. 
My list of blades for sale https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wYci9423byd3X43DhSsaXOmysNKMfK-RnPWSo3UfpkQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/10/2014 at 11:48pm
Guys, you are mostly giving examples of very soft rubbers - which is natural as they are usually lighter than harder-sponged rubbers.

But how about rare exceptions - rubbers that are not too soft but still light. I recently encountered two such rubbers - Gambler Outlaw Pro and KTL Red Diamond Mechanical.

Any more suggestions? I would say that the rubber is light, if its weight when cut to a standard SH blade is no more than 41-42 g.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swampthing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/10/2014 at 11:54pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Originally posted by roulage roulage wrote:

I heard that some players glue their rubbers 1-2 cm up to the end of grip where is none playing area anymore. It is said they save 10-15 gr - especially with heavy rubbers. Has anybody such experience ?
 
I would think this might make it actually feel heavier by shifting the balance upward.

+1.  Doing that doesn't make any sense...Confused

It might help a shoulder or elbow issue. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2014 at 2:15am
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Guys, you are mostly giving examples of very soft rubbers - which is natural as they are usually lighter than harder-sponged rubbers.


I don't know the weight or hardness but Nano Spin II is quite light and I would not consider it a soft sponge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2014 at 2:37am
the 1st answer to this thread I remember was mentioning adidas p5 and p7. I am confident those are about 45g cut and they are fast, playing in the calibra and nimbus league in terms of speed (not as fast though). that's where I start considering a rubber light by today standards; 45 and under. to me 40 is very light. under that? like 1.8 calibra lt sound? feather light :)

I tried nimbus medium, not soft, and that was light and fast, about 40g in 2.0; I don't see any for sale anymore; it was a great bh rubber. 

for harder sponge, nimbus vip is also fast and light. at $42 it's a bargain at http://www.tabletennisstore.us/p-1572-nimbus-vip.aspx



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote viktorovich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2014 at 3:13am
 P7 : 48g and 47g.
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