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Need tips to avoid being passive!

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ashishsharmaait View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01/30/2014 at 10:04am
Hi,

I often get passive in between matches and push back balls I could have looped. This is most often against my own serve where I push back something I could have stepped around and looped.

Do you have any tips which help you avoid getting passive in points?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 10:24am
I recommend you commit to attacking EVERYTHING in practice matches so you create for yourself a more active state of mind. After a while it will become natural and then only sometimes you will push, when it's necessary.
Easier said than done though...I'm where you are more often than not.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suds79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 10:31am
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

Hi,

I often get passive in between matches and push back balls I could have looped. This is most often against my own serve where I push back something I could have stepped around and looped.

Do you have any tips which help you avoid getting passive in points?

Can we take our two brains and mesh them together? I have the exact opposite problem of attacking too much. It hurts me on low % shots where I should just stay alive in the point vs hitting a ball out.

I also have a problem when going counterdrive to counterdrive with someone, each shot I progressively hit harder & harder. I try to tell myself it's okay to hit the next shot just as hard, or maybe softer, than the previous. :)

Basically I'm going to echo what Fatt said. Attack everything to get in the mindset. Particularly if it's just a club night or something like that. That's a great time to practice. Loop everything. You'll be amazed how much your attack improves when your mind & body just think it's automatic vs an option on to attack or not.

There's a fine line in there somewhere that probably just comes with experience.


Edited by suds79 - 01/30/2014 at 10:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 11:48am
Maybe part of the problem is your pivot step?  If you have a BH loop, you could use that.  It takes less time and you are not committed like you are with a pivot.  Either way you can use a simple mental trick to be more aggressive.  I started doing it last club night to work on this same problem.

I was playing a guy 100 points lower than me, who I almost always beat in 3.  So I made a mental rule for myself, no BH pushes allowed.  And I served all underspin to the wide BH so almost every return came that way.  If the ball came long I looped, if short I tried to flip even though my flip stinks.  But the opponent is lower so his underspin is not that heavy, and as I tried more and more they started landing better.  

I won that time in 5, but I lost another to a similar opponent in 3.  I didn't mind at all. For once I got real practice out of a practice match, instead of just wasting time.  It will take a lot more before I have that kind of confidence to attack BHs in a real tournament, but at least now I am working on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrscatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 11:58am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

I recommend you commit to attacking EVERYTHING in practice matches so you create for yourself a more active state of mind. After a while it will become natural and then only sometimes you will push, when it's necessary.
Easier said than done though...I'm where you are more often than not.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geardaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 12:25pm
There is a relatively simple answer for this ... MOVE!

If you think you are being too passive and missing opportunities to attack, it is probably because you are simply not ready to attack.  It's easy to fall into a trap where you are standing too upright, not bending the knees and staying low, and not continually moving.

I think it's a mistake to just predispose yourself to attack when you don't know what is coming.  Instead, clear your mind but make yourself ready by getting into position right away.  This means that when you are returning serve you should relax and concentrate fully on watching for the contact point on the serve, but when the server starts his serving motion you should already be moving.  If you just stand there statically waiting for the ball to come to you, then you will not be ready to attack.  Also, when you are serving make sure you don't stand there watching your serve.  Instead, immediately move and get yourself into a ready position right after sending that ball on its way.

Effective attacking is 50% having the correct stroke technique and 50% simply being ready and prepared to attack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 1:08pm
I wouldn't attack everything.  Put a qualifier on that like any higher than the net.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote naijachief Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 1:11pm
I have the same problem. I have concluded that I am a very lazy player. Sometimes I can play up to 2200 level and then I can play as low as 1800. It depends on my opponent. If I feel pressured from serves or serve return, I react accordingly. I need to learn how to pump myself up regardless of who I am playing. A constant mental battle of mine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

Hi,

I often get passive in between matches and push back balls I could have looped. This is most often against my own serve where I push back something I could have stepped around and looped.

Do you have any tips which help you avoid getting passive in points?


This is a very easy question to address. The keys are four things - anticipation, stroke length, energy level and commitment.

The most important is anticipation. This comes from watching th service motion and the bounce trajectory. The earlier you can tell where the ball is going and commit to your stroke, the better. This will give you more options.

2. Stroke length is key because it takes time to prepare larger stroke And even more time to recover. Therefore building a small but powerful wristy return stroke can be helpful.

3. And 4. These go together. The push is a lazy stroke compared to the flick or loop when played against backspin. Therefore, people without the new energy and anticipation to get to the ball on time will push. Once you energetically commit to your read and stroke, this changes. There is also a concentration element here. If you have techniques for focusing (committing to moving your feet, playing each point like a mini match, these can help.

You are a pretty high level player according to your posts so I am now sure that there isn't something less obvious at work...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andy.h Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 1:47pm
I had same problem I my solution is this: think in terms of "combinations" or "pairs". You know how in boxing they hit  "pairs": left jab and follow-up right hook? Many of those combinations are "automatic" in boxing. 

Same here: you serve underspin not to trick your opponent to hit net, but to get underspin back. You serve and get ready to loop because you know what's coming. You serve short nospin - you expect soft flip or pop-up ball (both slow topspins), so you are ready for both. If your opponent reacts in a way you didn't expect (e.g. good push at extreme angle) - well, then you have to react too. But in you mind you always should have a plan - this is my shot and this my potential follow-up.

My serves aren't very good, so in real matches I revert to very simple, obvious serves which allows me to not worry about serve technique but focus on follow-up instead. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 2:18pm

Perhaps your inner voice is telling you to change or modify your style. Are you getting a bit older? Is the old footwork not as springy as when you were younger? Nothing wrong with changing if you can maintain effectiveness in scoring points. The new chopping/attack style is wonderful to watch and can be a real problem for some players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by andy.h andy.h wrote:

I had same problem I my solution is this: think in terms of "combinations" or "pairs". You know how in boxing they hit  "pairs": left jab and follow-up right hook? Many of those combinations are "automatic" in boxing. 

Same here: you serve underspin not to trick your opponent to hit net, but to get underspin back. You serve and get ready to loop because you know what's coming. You serve short nospin - you expect soft flip or pop-up ball (both slow topspins), so you are ready for both. If your opponent reacts in a way you didn't expect (e.g. good push at extreme angle) - well, then you have to react too. But in you mind you always should have a plan - this is my shot and this my potential follow-up.

My serves aren't very good, so in real matches I revert to very simple, obvious serves which allows me to not worry about serve technique but focus on follow-up instead. 

I think this is large part of it, and the rest is about moving your feet.
There's nothing worse than planning a sequence, getting what you were hoping/expecting but pushing the return instead of looping because you didn't bother to move into position to do it.

When playing against familiar opponents, I try to consider the 2 most likely returns (based on experience against them) for a given serve that way there's less chance of a surprise.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 6:16pm
I see my original post doesn't fully apply - the post is really about 3rd and 5th ball.
 
One solution is to develop and practice both 3rd ball and 5th ball strategy.  5th ball strategy is a more reliable and allows you to feel comfortable passing on a 3rd ball loop or doing a relatively weak loop on the third ball, but with better placement or lots of spin.  3rd ball can also be a short or long push and not just a spinny loop if one has a 5th ball strategy.  As long as one decides to intend to do this, then one stops feeling guilty about not looping a ball that one could have looped, as the third ball loop is not the only or best option.  The problem of course is that you have to have a solid counter game if the opponent opens on the 4th ball.
 
Another idea is to revisit your serve strategy and relearn the typical returns.  Long serves, expect attacks and get ready to play the point out.  Pushes give you too much time to attack.  Short serves with topspin/sidespin, expect flicks as pushes will pop up and give you too much time to attack.  If you serve underspin short, expect a push unless your underspin is light.  If you serve side underspin short, be readly for a long push or flick and if your opponent goes for a short push, be ready to rush the net as the push will come high fairly often.
 
However, one must commit to attacking anything that comes long, even if one is missing initially.   One key is to develop enough speed and anticipation to get to the outer side of the ball (right side on the right side of the table, left side on the left side of the table) even if one is too late to make a powerful shot.  IF one can do this, the one can always hook the ball safely back into the table with side spin and pose some problems for the opponent even when one is late to the ball.
 
As an old coach of mine said, always develop your plays with backup (or Plan Bs)...
 
(reminds me of guy I played whose first strategy was try to kill your pushes - if he killed your pushes into the net, he would push them back with sidespin for you to pop up if you tried to push them back - if you flicked or handled these pushes easily, he would back off the table and start lobbing but I am overly digressing...)


Edited by NextLevel - 01/30/2014 at 6:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 6:32pm
I have a practice matches coming up tomorrow. Lets see if I can will myself to attack everything :)
Thanks for the tips.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 7:12pm
As a side note, I think attacking everything hard is a bad idea. On the other hand, practicing giving a topspin to balls you would normally not is helpful even if it is a weak topspin as the first step to a harder one or a better placed one. In a few cases, I have played people who were so used to having their serves pushed that they couldn't attack my ridiculously soft flicks.

Edited by NextLevel - 01/30/2014 at 7:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 7:27pm
Originally posted by geardaddy geardaddy wrote:

There is a relatively simple answer for this ... MOVE!


I agree. Also, what really helps me to become a bit more assertive in my game (and I often have the same problem - pushing or passive-blocking too much when I should be attacking) is preparation during practice.

Have your partner or your robot (whichever you use) push relatively short underspin balls to your left, to your middle, to your right etc - ask for length and spin which you are most uncomfortable with. Then practice to attack them - not necessarily with loop-kill but with a spinny and relatively aggressive attacking stroke. It is quite hard to passively push against spinny loop, even when it is slower and/or higher than ideal one.

If the other guy chops, it is even better - because chops are usually much longer and slower than over-the-table underspin pushes - and that will give you time to get into the proper position, which is crucial.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rliu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 7:33pm
You could add more spin to your loops. When your in the rally's you can keep telling yourself to out consistent your opponent. It 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by andy.h andy.h wrote:

I had same problem I my solution is this: think in terms of "combinations" or "pairs". You know how in boxing they hit  "pairs": left jab and follow-up right hook? Many of those combinations are "automatic" in boxing. 

Same here: you serve underspin not to trick your opponent to hit net, but to get underspin back. You serve and get ready to loop because you know what's coming. You serve short nospin - you expect soft flip or pop-up ball (both slow topspins), so you are ready for both. If your opponent reacts in a way you didn't expect (e.g. good push at extreme angle) - well, then you have to react too. But in you mind you always should have a plan - this is my shot and this my potential follow-up.

My serves aren't very good, so in real matches I revert to very simple, obvious serves which allows me to not worry about serve technique but focus on follow-up instead. 


I think what is more important is not to trigger the underspin push from your opponent - it seems that in our case you will be getting it anyway - but to try and cause the response to go where you prefer it to go, say to your FH (or BH, whatever you prefer or ready for). The worst is usually getting short push into your middle, but then see the previous advice about "MOVE!" Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 8:31pm
Some people have a passive style, you know... just always try to score a point, even on a passive way...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2014 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

Hi,

I often get passive in between matches and push back balls I could have looped. This is most often against my own serve where I push back something I could have stepped around and looped.

Do you have any tips which help you avoid getting passive in points?


It has nothing to do with the opponent , it's something the OP needs to address himself. Either you attack or play safe, sometimes it's a confidence issue or you're just not an attacker. There's nothing wrong with it unless it conflicts with your goals.
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