The search for ITTF approved poly balls

lineup32 wrote: We have a sport dominated by rec players that continue's to  over emphasize the role ITTF has over there game yet they never play beyond a local tournament or RR event or backyard and hoot and holler as if they are major international players upset with the governing ITTF. If so many players are upset with the ITTF they can go their separate way and have non ITTF tournaments, speed glue and play to 21 or 50!

This is actually pretty offensive and deserves a response.  Nearly everyone here who posts is a non-professional player and is by definition therefore doing it for recreation, but not everybody goes about it the same way. 

A substantial number of MyTT forum members living in the US will compete in a sanctioned tournament several times a year.  They pay the entry fees, they may buy a plane ticket or at least take a long drive, maybe spend a night or two in a hotel room, investing substantially in rubber, blade, plus several hours per week training, plus whatever they pay to belong to their club.  (See for example various threads on "who is going to the US Open this year").  Almost nobody in the US makes a living from playing the sport (including in my city four former US Men's team players), but they are also not  people whacking a ball around in a basement or who occasionally go enter a club round robin.  They are serious about the sport.  This is the grass roots that keeps the sport alive at higher levels.  These are  USATT members whose kids play, who keep the clubs you can play in alive in various ways, and who pay dues to our national organizations.  Those dues, including sanctioning fees, comprise pretty much the entirety of the USATT operating budget these days. 

Players like this are not unique to US (although here players tend to have to travel farther); our counterparts in other places play in official league matches, which while not professional level, are regulated as if they were, as well as all sorts of other formal competitions. 

What the ITTF does affects us because our national organizations (such as USATT) almost always follow their lead on almost everything, especially balls.  Lineup, it may not matter to you but only because as you say yourself, you don't have much invested in it (and consequently were blissfully unaware of the rules that come into play in sanctioned events).  You compare table tennis to golf.  Fine, go play golf, although even there if you actually play some sort of real competition, there will be rules.  Or you can go back to your basement where maybe you still have a few cracked 38 mm balls and play some pingpong.  Enjoy.

DHS is okay to use.  "Only USATT and/or ITTF Approved Equipment maybe used at all USATT sanctioned tournaments."

Tinykin wrote: Why can't they be up front and say that they believe that the game is too fast and that they want to slow it down, here's the options. Simple.

But are we sure this is the true reason behind the changes?

Let us ask: when should we expect any change to happen? The scenario is the following:

1) On the one hand, there is a constant pressure made by manufacturers upon ITTF to make any change at all, and as frequently as possible, in order to sell more material;

2) on the other hand, any change that happens without a plausible excuse involving health would be too unpopular.

In such a scenario, when should we expect a change to happen? Only when there is an excuse involving health, which is plausible (not necessarily true).

That's what I would expect, given the forces at work. And this theory explains rather accurately what happened (with the exception of the increase to the ball size).

No problem man.  Keep playing TT, we all love the sport.

seguso wrote: Tinykin wrote: Why can't they be up front and say that they believe that the game is too fast and that they want to slow it down, here's the options. Simple. But are we sure this is the true reason behind the changes? Let us ask: when should we expect any change to happen? The scenario is the following: 1) On the one hand, there is a constant pressure made by manufacturers upon ITTF to make any change at all, and as frequently as possible, in order to sell more material; 2) on the other hand, any change that happens without a plausible excuse involving health would be too unpopular. In such a scenario, when should we expect a change to happen? Only when there is an excuse involving health, which is plausible (not necessarily true). That's what I would expect, given the forces at work. And this theory explains rather accurately what happened (with the exception of the increase to the ball size).

Follow the money.

Baal wrote: Imago wrote: Baal wrote: "All racket surfaces needed to be USATT approved to be used in USATT tournaments." So, whoever plays with DHS equipment is illegal. It is amazing they don't have it on their list!

AMonteiro wrote: There are two new aprovals on ITTF list. DHS 40+*** (plastic with seam) Double Fish 40+*** (plastic with seam) http://www.ittf.com/_front_page/ittf1.asp?category=balls

Welcome to last week.

You think they will wait for the actual approval before they start making them? They have guidelines, so they know if their balls meet the requirements to be ITTF approved.

Than k you Igor. Very helpful.

What I don't understand: if it was celluloid, why did it play so different, exactly as they describe the plastic ball? Less spin, harder. I assure you. You had to loop with a paddle face more open and your loop had less spin.

I also dropped it on the floor side by side with the normal ball, and it bounced higher, and it kept bouncing while the other was still.

seguso wrote: Than k you Igor. Very helpful. What I don't understand: if it was celluloid, why did it play so different, exactly as they describe the plastic ball? Less spin, harder. I assure you. You had to loop with a paddle face more open and your loop had less spin. I also dropped it on the floor side by side with the normal ball, and it bounced higher, and it kept bouncing while the other was still.

Two possibilities come to mind.

1.  It was larger and that is the main thing that accounts for difference regardless of whether it is plastic or celluloid.

or

2.  You were expecting it to play a certain way and so perceived that it did.  This is not meant as a knock on you, as it is a very common thing in people--- so much so that in certain kinds of experiments in our lab we have to do them "blind" to avoid biasing the outcome.

I am still in shock :)

I don't know what is real anymore...

Anyway, the best thing is that you liked them. 

Celluloids are a class of compounds created from nitrocellulose and camphor, with added dyes and other agents. Generally considered the first thermoplastic, it was first created as Parkesine in 1866^[1] and as Xylonite in 1869, before being registered as Celluloid in 1870. Celluloid is easily molded and shaped, and it was first widely used as an ivoryreplacement. Celluloid is highly flammable and also easily decomposes, and is no longer widely used. Its most common uses today are in table tennis balls and guitar picks.^[2]

Hmmm...looky looky...

http://ttnpp.com/store/home/695-xushaofa-new-seamless-poly-ball-.html

Yup. And no "40+" either.

It's like the wild west out there.