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Full translation: National Coach Li Xiao Dong Lec.

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    Posted: 02/13/2014 at 2:38pm
There is a original thread about this lecture on MyTT.While the earlier translations are all great works, I believe there are some nuances lost. Also the full translation are separated in different places. This is my attempt at translating this article. Some of the sentences are difficult to translate word for word, so I made some minor modifications to preserve their meaning in smoother English.  Also my English TT vocab is pretty lacking please be forgiving…any suggestion is welcome!

P.S. idk why the Chinese sure loves their commas, there are so many run on sentences in the articles, and they put commas everywhere, sometimes the ideas are even related, why cannot they just use a period, okay I will stop rambling like coach LXD.

The bold and division is mine, for better speed reading since not everyone want to wade through the wall of text. It is not from the original lecture.

Original Chinese Transcript: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17271 (missing some words/formatting)

http://www.chinatt.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1180493 (complete)

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1.       Sideway attack: A stroke where player body is turned to being almost perpendicular to the net. Usually done on the backhand corner and uses forehand to attack.

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CNT Coach LXD on the five links of ball striking:  judgment, strike position, strike timing, striking distance and ball adjustment.

 

My old coach has already given a lecture about this and Ping Pong World magazine published a similar article, but after all these years I have had some new insights. The titles of the articles are the same, but the contents are somewhat different. These are some of the basic principles of table tennis, so I hope it will be helpful toward new players’ development and strengthen their theoretical knowledge. My hope is that players will not just play intuitively but also rationally.



Edited by harmonicon - 02/23/2014 at 12:04am
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-          The first link is judgment. “When the judgment is bad, even given a stool you cannot control the ball.”

The judgment bio-mechanism works like this: when the opponent strikes the ball, we use our eyes to judge the angle, spin and the position of the ball. We feed this information to the brain, and the brain sends commands to the limbs (in order to move and execute a play). The better your ball judgment is, the clearer the command your brain issues to your limbs becomes. Professional players make more judgments based on reflexes; these judgments are clear and translate to precise movements; it also helps to put their body at ease. If the ball judgment is fuzzy, the movement command also gets vague and the players tend to get nervous and tense up. That’s why many people tell this joke: “When player A sees his opponent execute a strong, spiny loop, he immediately starts raising his shoulders, elbows and tips his toes. At this point, even if you give him a stool to step on, he will not be able to contain the ball (and put it on the table)”. This is related to judgment making.

There are two kinds of judgment: pre-determination and ball watching. Pre-determination means this: After returning the ball to your opponent, try to make a guess based on his playing habits. Doing so will help to ensure your opponent’s return will be in your optimum range of attack. It will be easier for you to execute the next stroke according to your strategy. Note that one prerequisite is you must be sure of the speed, spin, angle and landing spot of your own return. Otherwise, if you return a slow or dead ball that can easily be attacked, then your strategy will be disrupted. Let me give you an example: JNL used to have a two wing penhold attacker named Kouno Michiru (Mitasu? 1968 Champ), who was a Man’s Single world champion. It was strange to watch him play; he did not have a lot of power, but he could execute a step up (to return a short ball) on the forehand side and then recover his body and follow up with sideway forehand attack[1]. At the time I couldn’t understand this, saying to myself his footwork is incredibly fast. But when I took a look again, actually that is not the case. Kouno has a very good two way linear game (left corner to left corner, right to right). When he is in a rally, he will start off with a quick linear backhand stroke; this gives his opponent a very hard time returning the ball back linearly and is forced hit the ball diagonally. Then Kouno would attack linearly on the forehand side, again his opponent is forced to return the ball diagonally. Basically after two exchanges, Kouno can execute the sideway forehand attack[1] blindfolded. He has a very clear vision of ball movement so pre-determination is easy.

You can try to discover some general rules of thumb for pre-determination. If you serve is very spiny, your opponent probably have a hard time flipping it, so you should prepare for a backspin loop or an on-table flip. If you serve a side-top spin ball, your opponent can probably flip it but cannot power-flip the ball, so you should get ready to attack a top spin return. Another example is when you serve (long), your opponent also returns long, if you are still in position for a short ball return that means your pre-determination couldn’t catch up to the game. Good pre-determination insures the quality of your returns. More quality returns will help your form your strategy or even your own  playingstyle.

Now let’s talk about ball-tracking.  Ball tracking means watching the instant where your opponent’s paddle meets the ball. There are some tricky points regarding ball watching, however; for example you could be tricked by a feint or “eat” an incoming spin. Some players are lazy; they don’t track the ball but just play according to the landing spots and angles they are used to. If you make them track the ball, they actually become slower. The reason is that they have not formed the habit of ball watching. In the beginning it might slow you down, but after a few months it will not.

Ball tracking mainly means to watch the instant where the other player strike the ball, to see the angle, spin and speed of his return/serve. Let’s start with serves. First you want to watch the exact place where paddle meets the ball. Let me give on example involving high-toss serves. Beijing team was playing Zhejiang team and the ZJ team has a player named He ZhiWen. HZW has a really high high-toss serve with a fast throw. When he throws the ball high, our eyes all followed the ball up and down. When his paddle touched the ball, it seemed really sudden and we could not tell what was served. Afterward I thought about it: even if the ball was thrown high, the spot where he hits the ball did not change. I just need to watch that one spot. (In the next game) My eye stayed to the ground and watched that one spot and this method immediately proved useful. This is why you must only watch the striking point.

The second thing is to watching how open/closed the opponent’s paddle is. If he is serving a dead/weak-spin ball, his paddle is probably more vertical. If he wants to serve a strong backspin serve, he paddle is probably flatter. Also you want to watch for the direction he is applying force to the ball. If he is swinging sideways, it’s a sidespin. If he is swinging downward then it’s backspin. Some players, when they are serving backspin balls, will swing downward and then upward. He can strike the ball on either the downward phase or the upward phase. At this point you have to watch and see in which direction he is applying power.  In addition you should watch the speed of the serve. Spiny balls are usually faster than weak-spin/dead balls; dead balls face greater resistance, so it is slower and seems to be floating more. Of course, better players are able to serve both kinds of balls with a very similar motion. These kinds of serves are sneakier and it’s hard to judge what the ball actually is. During real matches you also need to know if a serve will stop on the table or end up going off the table. For example, WQG is a smart player who always check out the table before he plays a game on it. He want to see how much the ball bounces on the table. During games, combining this information and the first bounce position of a serve or return, he could determine if the ball will stop on or going off the table.

For judgment, you must execute both ball-tracking and pre-determination. Ball-tracking is the primary judgment and pre-determination should be auxiliary. Even though table tennis emphasize the self (pre-determination), but is your don’t track the ball but only use pre-determination, you are as good as blind. You must make a habit of making judgment, this is a soft skill. Let’s say player A could not judge well during practice. During a match he got killed by a serve, the coach proceeds to give him some tips. Even if he is able to return the serve well afterward, his attention is all focused there and will not be able prepare  for the second ball. That is why you must build a firm foundation of ball judgment during everyday practices, just like walking. After you form a habit, spin and angle judgment become much easier, leaving more energy for strategy execution; this will improve your level of play by a large step. During practice many people stick to one motion, one type of spin, one landing spot and one tempo and try to hit 5-6 or even 7-8 times; there is no such thing in a real match. I advocate using greater power during practices, because it forces player to recover and increases the difficulty. Using power introduces variation and variation makes practices more realistic. 



Edited by harmonicon - 02/15/2014 at 12:26pm
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-          The second link is strike position. “Do not stand too close, try to use small steps often”

There are two parts to strike position, one is standing position and the other is striking position. Standing position is the position of the player’s body relative to the ball and to the table. You always want to find the most comfortable position to strike the ball and this is based on your height and playing style. Talking about height, WLQ is 186cm and he probably will stand further away from the table. It is easy to step up to the table and retreating is also convenient. In this position he is most comfortable with striking the ball and uses it the most. This position is not his basic striking position (Translator: WTF?). Compare to Deng YP (~150cm), she is a little short so she needs to stand closer. If she stood further back she might not be able to reach the short balls.

Basic standing position also depends on player’s style and habit. Players with good power and footwork can stand further; players with less power but good at borrowing power from opponent’s stroke should stand closer. Players with bad footwork, do not do much sideway attack [1] and is balanced on both forehand and backhand skills should stand toward the middle. Standing position should be moderated. For example, many people think if one stands closer to the table he can increase the pace of the game. This is only partially true, because it does consider the scenario where the opponent hit the ball long; the incoming ball will be pushing against your paddle and makes it difficult to strike with power. In this situation the player must retreat.  Why am I talking about this? During my coaching year there have been many successes but also many failures. There is a penhold short pips player on the team Beijing; he has very good techniques but just cannot seem to win. In the end I found his problem: he stood too close to the table. What is so bad about standing close? In human movement moving forward is the fastest, sideways second and backpedaling is the slowest. If you stood too close you have to move backward and it will slow down the entire stroke. That’s why you should not stand too close and obsess over increasing the speed of the game: too many errors can happen and you cannot strike with power. (Translator note: Old-school Chinese players tend to stand VERY close to the table).

Now let’s talk about striking position. Proper striking position requires the body to lean (forward?). For strokes, especially on the forehand side, the ball, hand and body should form a triangle. If they form a curved surface, then the ball is hard to strike. Player cannot use power and center of gravity is off. (Translator: this is hard for me to understand, but I think he is talking about the ball, hand and center of gravity of the body being in one geometry plan upon striking). Usually the first sentence most coaches tell the student s is to strike in ball in front of the body, not to the side or behind since they do not conform to basic striking principles. Another point is when striking, the hand must not be too far from the body, since the center of gravity (CoG) is easily lost. In most cases only when returning short balls can the hand and CoG separate. Hand and CoG should remain together for most other kind of balls. When player proceed to strike the ball, the CoG and the hand should be synchronized: synchronized timing and direction. The better a player is, the simpler his stroke becomes because the CoG and the hand is synchronized; they appear very coordinated/graceful.  Another example is the sideway [1] flip: how can anyone flip a ball while in mid-air and without a firm contact with the ground(Note: LSD acutally used the word “fulcrum”, which refers to energy must be transferred up from the ground to the hand through the legs, in order to lift the ball)?

Now let’s talk about footwork: most professional players do not have major problems. But everyday players tend to ignore taking quick small steps. Many players freeze at the sight of a short and high ball in the middle. When they come around to start moving, the ball is already too low and impossible to hit. As a result they just make a desperation backhand stroke. This problem can be taken care of by using small steps. The most common scenario for small movement is forward, back, sideway-forward and sideway-backward motions. Coach Cai (former CNT coach) gave an example about transitioning from sideway forehand attack(backhand corner) to forehand attack(forehand corner). After sideway forehand attack finishes (using right handed players as example), the center of gravity (CoG) will be shifted to the left feet. Many players proceed to move to forehand side directly from this position, but because the CoG is so far from the table (Note: spot he is trying to move to?) he looks very ungraceful. The better way would be take a small step (to move backward a little and shift the CoG back), then move to the forehand side while turning the upper body into ready position. This approach will feel much more comfortable. After sideway forehand attack [1], if you do not recover CoG from the left feet and do not use small steps, you will not be able to execute the subsequent movements.

Let me dig into the use of Center of Gravity during movements a little further. Player should lower their CoG while striking the ball and use the reaction force (from the ground). The feet should feel this reaction force as if stepping on a spring that is bouncing up from being compressed. WLQ does a very good job utilizing this reaction force. When he loops, there is a lot of power coming through because he pushes off with his leg and release the power of the body (into the stroke/ball). Balls hit this way will be slightly faster. You must not just wait for the ball to come first and then attempt to push down the body’s CoG; You will not be able effectively utilize all the power that way. I taught wrongly on this point for about 25 years and just recently gained clearer understanding.

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-          The third link is stroke timing. Do not be “fake quick” but “actual quick”. 

Stroke timing is a crucial skill. There five phases for striking the ball are: early rise phase, late rise phase, top point, early drop phase and late drop phase.

(1)    During the early rise phase, borrowing power is easier; however because the ball height is lower than the net and ball speed is fast, it is difficult to strike the ball with power and it’s easy to make unforced mistakes. If player hit the ball during this phase, it can only be called “fake quick”. Many players are “fake quick”---including WLQ. He hit the ball so far from the body it’s hard to use power. WLQ’s backhand is still problematic, being “fake quick”; I bear some responsibility for it. Any stroke must not be too far from the body. If you can borrow the power from incoming ball, your backhand will become better. So everyone should try to be “actual quick”.

(2)    Late rise phase is the best point of strike. Because the incoming ball’s spin has not reached maximum and it gives player more time to setup for the shot. It is easy to strike with power and easy to borrow power; strike motion will be quick and sneaky. Wang Hao is great at striking the ball in this phase, so he is “actual quick”. Everyone can also reminisce (about their own previous games); all the best strokes are probably done in this phase. Late rise phase is mainly used to attack, so players can make this phase their main point of strike.

(3)    The third one is top point. This is the easiest and most stable point of strike, because it gives player ample time to prepare. The arc of the ball is also high, much higher than the net. These are the positive points. There are also drawbacks: the ball’s spin reaches maximum at this point, it is easy to “eat” the spin. Also striking balls at the top point makes it easy for the opponent to judge; it is not sneaky enough. Top point as the main attack phase might be a little late and will not be very effective.

(4)    Early drop phase is used when the incoming spin is strong or when player position needs adjustment/recovery. Choppers may use this phase more, but even then I do not advocate striking in early drop phase all the time. If you always seem to be saving the ball your game is too slow. It might look good but simply won’t be effective. CXH’s chopping game is pretty good, he is tall and the chops comes fast.

(5)    Late Drop phase is the worst phase the hit the ball. This is an auxiliary strike point. Besides lobs and out of position balls, try not to use this phase at all. If player strike in this phase he must increase the spin to control the high arc. Execute a spiny loop, not a push.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonicon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2014 at 2:42pm

-          The fourth link is striking distance “To each ball, its own striking distance”.

Striking distance mainly refers to the distance between the ball and the paddle. The greater the distance, the easier it is to strike with power, and the momentum generate is also greater; at the same time it is easier to commit errors and harder to remain stable. Conversely, a smaller striking distance makes power strikes harder but borrowing power easier. Adjustment and control are also easier to achieve. Accordingly to the previous principles, for each ball player should choose striking distance accordingly. If an opportunity ball (easily attacked) comes up, the striking distance between the ball and the paddle should be greater. On the other hand if player tries return short balls with a similar distance(as opportunity ball), there will be no spin on the ball.

There are four scenarios of ball strikes: opportunity ball, active attack, fast rally, active defense. These four scenarios span almost all situations a player will face.

For opportunity balls, player will use greater power and hence greater motion, greater center of gravity shift and greater striking distance between the ball and paddle; that makes sense.  But I have to make one point clear: for all these “great” motions you must put a measure of finesse into them.  The ball must be solidly hit. You can use great motion and a huge swing, but if when you impact the ball, if your arm have already slowed down, how can the return be powerful? Player’s body should remain relaxed before contact, then use up all power upon contact of the ball, otherwise your body will just tense up (and lose power).

Active attacks should use medium power, motion, center of gravity shift and striking distance. Fast rallies 30-40%, active defense 20-30%. It’s easy to say but hard to do. It’s easy to distinguish between power strokes and soft strokes but when it comes to power vs medium or medium vs soft it can get difficult.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2014 at 2:42pm
"... During real matches you also need to know if the serve will end on the table or off the table. For example, WQG is a smart player. No matter where he is playing, he will travel to match site and check out the elasticity of the table."
 - I dunno ...


Edited by JacekGM - 02/13/2014 at 3:10pm
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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-          The fifth link:  Micro adjustment

Micro adjustment is a skill and also wisdom. This is the essence of table tennis and whether the execution looks good is not a concern.

Different people tend be better in one aspect of micro adjustment. WLQ’s forehand, Wang Hao’s backhand, Ma Lin’s short ball execution.

After 40mm ball and non-hidden serve was implemented, the need for player strength has gone up a lot. Comparing 38mm with 40mm, spin has decreased ¼ and control 1/10. Playing styles like Kong LH and Samsonov’s is fine for small ball but was affected greatly by the 40mm ball. Their speed and power simply were not enough. Using benching as an example, Liu GuoLiang and Kong LingHui has a hard time doing 50, 60 KG (132lbs); Ma Lin can do 90KG(198lbs) and WLQ 100KG(220lbs). Players’ integral and individual physical abilities became more and more important. At the very least a player must be fast enough (to stay in the game) and possess enough power to kill (a point).

At this point table tennis techniques have become ever fine-grained; player skill levels are also closer to each other than ever before.  Like in the 2007 WTTC final where WLQ played Rye Seung Min, I have said this several times, if WLQ’s backhand is a little weaker and first attack quality a little lower, then he probably would have lost.

Every time we face a ball, we think about how to make backhand faster, forehand more vicious, pushes spinier, and blocks stronger. But to ensure striking percentage and quality, table tennis requires players to make adjustment and retain control. Not every ball can be forcefully attacked.

The first skill is spin adjustment. Spin adjustment depends upon applying force with the wrist and finger. Of course the center of gravity is involved too. When player strike and is about to rub the ball, make sure to prepare the paddle(Drop the wrist?). If you do not do this, the wrist and finger will be unable to apply force.

I think using wrist to lead the forearm swing is faster than using the center of gravity to lead arm swing. For example (Translator: Gosh darn just drop that phrase already) if I want to punch someone but do not use my wrist, that person probably won’t feel a thing. If I use my wrist, the punch will probably hurt. If I use my center of gravity to apply force in the same direction, then I am like a tiger with wings. (Translator: lol).

Spin adjustment’s main function is to solve particular problems relating to spin. Player should not think if they can rub the ball very well then the ball will be accurate (and land on the table) automatically. Accuracy involves a feel for the arc of the ball. Deng YP is very good at this, her ball have a great arc.

The second skill is adjustment to paddle open/closeness. This is a very advanced skill and was not much discussed until two years ago.  Will it work to strike a short ball with a closed paddle? Of course not, the ball will immediately go into the net. When flipping a spiny serve, open the blade a little more; when flipping dead/no-spin serve, close the paddle more.

If you can make paddle angle adjustment very well then all balls can be attacked. Of course there is some finesse to this skill. For an incoming backspin ball, I will first open up my blade angle; then upon impact of the ball with the paddle, if I feel the ball arc will go over the net then I will definitely attack the ball. When to open and when to close is a fine skill. If you open the blade for too long the ball will go out of bound, whereas if you close the blade too early it will go into the net. Ball going into the net usually indicates a lack of paddle angle adjustment. Ball going out of bound means the point of strike is too “thick” (My opinion is that it means too fast/early, when the swing still has a long distance to travel.)

Micro Adjustment is usually done in minute measures, just like a radio. If FM0.9 is Beijing Station, FM0.91 will not have a clear signal. When receiving top spin balls, if the spin is weak then open up the paddle a little; if it is strong then close it a little bit. Ball with weak spin usually borrow a lot of power, ball with strong spin usually had a high power input. Paddle adjustment is very important, be ready to adjust it any time.

The third skill is power adjustment. I divide power into five spectrums:   Strong power stroke, medium power stroke, soft power strokes with borrowing, pure borrowing stroke and power reducing stroke.

Strong power stroke is used for smashes. Smash high and semi-high balls with 90% of power. Some people advocate more, but I think 90% is enough. If you use 100% of your strength you might not be able to recover for the second shot.

Medium power stroke is where skill matters the most. It is used for main attacks and rallying; using 60-70% of your total strength is about right. Soft stroke with borrowing adds your own power on top of the ball’s incoming momentum and spin. It seems like you are countering your opponents ball but in reality it’s not much effort at all. If your opponent use 60% strength, should you return the ball back with 60% strength too? If you do, I think even if you got the ball on the table it’s just a coincidence. The quality of the return is pretty similar when you use 40-50% compare to using 70-80%. Indeed the former is easier to control.

Pure Borrowing stroke is mostly used in fast rallies, quick defense and active defenses. It requires good accuracy from the player. Power reducing stroke is used for short stop and also short serves. Playing with short or long pips also reduces power. When you try to learn and master any new skills, you should learn to strike with power first. After that adjustment becomes much easier. For example some players want to serve a short ball but they dare not use any force, tapping it lightly instead. The serve is short alright, but the opponent can do whatever they want with it. Players should learn to use greater and greater force until they feel they have reached maximum. Then they should proceed to reduce it little by little (learning control in the process).

The fourth skill is tempo adjustment. Right now speed has become the core of table tennis development, namely ball speed and spin. Strong spin but low speed balls translate to low threat and it is the same with fast speed but weak spin balls. The era of pure speed or pure spin has already passed. Speed, spin and power combined together have the greatest effect. At this time Wang Hao is the best at combining the three. WLQ is also working toward it—his speed and power are very good, but is lacking a little bit in the spin department; Ma lin is great at creating the spin, but lacks a bit of speed and power. Tempo changes and spin supplement each other. If you cannot beat someone with speed then increase the spin, if they got used to your spin then increase the speed. Using this skill requires good strategy.

Tempo basically is just fast/slowness. We always say table tennis player strike the ball “one by one”. What does “one by one” mean? Wang Tao uses short pips and I taught him for nine years. I solved two problems for him: 1. Forehand quick drive---I did not invent this; He has been using it before. The difference is most player uses it sporadically but he uses it all the time. The second one is short pips backhand’s fast tap. Northern Chinese calls it the “fast stir hand”, this is what I mean by “one by one”, and this is “actual fast”. (Translator: this paragraph did not make sense whatsoever to me, especially the part about one by one).

There are some similarities between adjustment of strength and tempo. Strength adjustment can be summarized in a tongue twister:  “Heavy to heavy”, meaning answering with a strong stroke to a strong stroke, this is not commonly used; “light to light”, this is also not very often used. If the incoming ball is soft, then I also return a soft ball, this is done to actively control and counter-control. The most used is “Light to Heavy” and “Heavy to Light”---when opponent stroke the ball softly then I will attack, if the opponent attack then I will defend. Player should strive for “light to heavy” (where player is actively attacking).

Tempo is similar. One category is “fast to fast” and “slow to slow”. “Fast to Fast” is easy to understand, but in the “slow to slow” scenario many players could not slow down enough. Same thinking applies to “Fast to slow “and “slow to fast”.  Just like striking power, fast and slowness attempts limit each other.

That is all. Hope this is a good reference for everyone. (Recorded by ZF, YY from LSD’s lecture for CNT men’s second team).



Edited by harmonicon - 02/14/2014 at 4:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2014 at 3:16pm
Should it not be "LXD" instead of LSD? I know it is pronounced "S'iao", but still...
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonicon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2014 at 3:18pm
Yeah just noticed and changed that. What about that first comment, do you have a suggestion on how to translate it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2014 at 3:24pm
I'd say what you are doing is valuable, just that LXD is expressing his thoughts somewhat loosely, and therefore the translation cannot be word for word, as you have noticed. It would probably require a TT coach or another advanced TT figureWink to smoothly ride over all these potholes...
Keep going! 
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2014 at 5:22am
Please find here the excellent powerpoint/pdf presentation  (with many pictures!) from Li Xiaodong that belongs to above article;
 
Have fun.
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Olio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Olio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2014 at 8:34am
Thanks Hopper and Harmonicon for this. Very interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2014 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by Olio Olio wrote:

Thanks Hopper and Harmonicon for this. Very interesting.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2014 at 6:23pm
Excellent.  A lot of work went into this translation and it is very interesting to read.  Welcome to the forum, Harmonicon!
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