Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Plastic balls delayed?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Plastic balls delayed?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 345
Author
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
wturber View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3899 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2014 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:


So, a less flammable ball is an improvement. Players might not notice that at the table, but in the wider world it helps manufacturing, distribution, competition in the marketplace, and profile.

There are downsides to the poly ball, I'm sure. But there are upsides too, and to deny them just shows a cynical agenda.


Yes, a diminished flammability is an improvement.  It just happens to be so extremely small that it is barely worth mentioning much less exaggerating.  If I overclock my computer by 1%, it will be faster and hence better.  But who cares?  The "benefit" has virtually no practical implications.
Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
popperlocker View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 03/24/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1753 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2014 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:


So, a less flammable ball is an improvement. Players might not notice that at the table, but in the wider world it helps manufacturing, distribution, competition in the marketplace, and profile.

There are downsides to the poly ball, I'm sure. But there are upsides too, and to deny them just shows a cynical agenda.


Yes, a diminished flammability is an improvement.  It just happens to be so extremely small that it is barely worth mentioning much less exaggerating.  If I overclock my computer by 1%, it will be faster and hence better.  But who cares?  The "benefit" has virtually no practical implications.

IMO, plastic balls are more dangerous than celluloid balls. Like another forumer said, when poly burns it releases more harmful toxins into the air. Also, poly is said to give people fertility problems. Yes, poly is everywhere, but table tennis players will have no escape.
On another note, I welcome the changes that poly brings to the gameplay. Slower, less spinny, longer rallies, easier to watch, more interesting to watch, more people can play.   
Back to Top
Matt Pimple View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 12/03/2012
Location: Phoenix
Status: Offline
Points: 1995 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2014 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

IMO, plastic balls are more dangerous than celluloid balls. Like another forumer said, when poly burns it releases more harmful toxins into the air. Also, poly is said to give people fertility problems. Yes, poly is everywhere, but table tennis players will have no escape.
What is your opinion based on that the poly balls are more dangerous? Are there any scientific papers? Also, ITTF does not specify which polymeric material needs to be used for the new "plastic" ball so it could be anything. When you talk about "poly" which polymeric material specifically are you referring to? You do realize that the term "poly" means "many", right?
OSP Ultimate; Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard max, Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5

My Feedback
Back to Top
TurboZ View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/31/2012
Status: Offline
Points: 1298 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2014 at 8:29pm
All I know is that for now celluloid balls are not allowed to be hand carry with you on board a plane. You have to keep them in your suitcase. So not sure about the new balls or they will all be banned together.
My Feedback
Back to Top
wturber View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3899 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2014 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by TurboZ TurboZ wrote:

All I know is that for now celluloid balls are not allowed to be hand carry with you on board a plane. You have to keep them in your suitcase. So not sure about the new balls or they will all be banned together.


I've done it multiple times.  No problems.  Though I have heard reports from others of it being prohibited.  Here's the problem, if true, its kinda crazy.  They'll allow you to carry a butane lighter but not a ping-pong ball.  Now that's crazy...

I believe that much of this stems from ignorance about celluloid and this ignorance is, I guess, understandable considering how few things are made of celluloid these days.
Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX
Back to Top
wturber View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3899 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2014 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

What is your opinion based on that the poly balls are more dangerous? Are there any scientific papers? Also, ITTF does not specify which polymeric material needs to be used for the new "plastic" ball so it could be anything. When you talk about "poly" which polymeric material specifically are you referring to? You do realize that the term "poly" means "many", right?


My understanding is that the specifics have been largely kept as trade secrets.  So this pretty much leaves the question of which is or is not safer unanswered.  The same goes for the workers who produce the balls - one of the key concerns expressed by Sharara at the outset.

But it's all academic.  Poly it will be and that's pretty much that.
Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX
Back to Top
Mastermind View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 09/16/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 948 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mastermind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2014 at 6:41pm
"French League Says No To The Polly Ball!"

(http://tabletennista.com/2014/4/french-league-says-no-to-the-polly-ball/)
Back to Top
wturber View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3899 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2014 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

"French League Says No To The Polly Ball!"

(http://tabletennista.com/2014/4/french-league-says-no-to-the-polly-ball/)


Well, they are simply saying "no" for the upcoming season.  It seems likely that they will say "yes" next season.
Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX
Back to Top
lineup32 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/06/2012
Location: Calif
Status: Offline
Points: 1195 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2014 at 7:44pm
The French Federation officially announced the reasons of its decision on its web site:
  • It is thought that manufacturers won't have enough supply on time (at least not until summer when players are in the pre-season) DHS informed that they haven't started the mass production, while Xushaofa informed that they have enough stock, but its ball won't be used in the 2014 and 2015 ITTF World Tour Circuit. 
  • The world production isn't ready yet. 
  • There is no enough stock currently, so no enough balls to train
  • There is no information from manufacturers
  • Celluloid balls will continue to be manufactured
  • Clubs still have large stock of celluloid balls

French Federation's report also mentioned the situation in Germany. The Germany Federation recommends that the Bundesliga, second and third division implement the new ball, while people in charge of other divisions can decide if they implement or not the polly ball. 
Back to Top
lecridupongiste View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 08/09/2008
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 43 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lecridupongiste Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2014 at 3:41am
It only concerns the amateur league. No decision has been made for the pro league yet.

Still, one more year to enjoy this good old celluloid ball.
Maybe this unwanted poly ball will go away in the meantime.

One can only dream.
Back to Top
igorponger View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/29/2006
Location: Everywhere
Status: Offline
Points: 3252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2014 at 7:08am
MEET THE PLASTIC IN A SHORT TIME...


http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://sz.happypingpang.cn/news/view/6028/79af79cd1bad0c4bafacb4d495720660a85489ac&usg=ALkJrhiuilfkI7olKMQJCAwOJsNCLzRsnA

MAY 9, 2014,   is when the DF and DHS to start with plastic on market worldwide.
Manufacturer Suggested Price is now announced at 8 yuan a piece. (3 star quality balls).

If a seller's price too cheap, say 4 yuan, be alert of fake product.
Back to Top
assiduous View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/01/2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2521 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:02am
I played a couple of matches with the new ball with a 2150 penhold two winged looper. He is a friend, never touched the ball before, started a match right away and beat me with great comfort. 
The biggest difference of the new ball is the sound. It tricks your brain into the illusion that actual performance is much different too, but it is not. There is no drastic difference in any aspect. I don't see any significant rating readjustments with the new ball. 
To be honest, even though the new ball is easier to play, I think my chances of upsetting a much higher rated player are with the old ball. At least there you can connect and ram it through. This is more difficult here, even if he pops a bad ball, unless its right above the net, its difficult to put it away. He can recover from the bad position and regain initiative soon after that. 
I think the new ball will make upsets more difficult. Before the underdog could take some risky shots and if they go in he collects a point. Not this is more difficult, seems like the only way to win is to outplay your opponent. How will you pass the new ball past defenders like Samsonov is to be seen
puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
Back to Top
Pondus View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/07/2012
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1933 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pondus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:13am
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

I played a couple of matches with the new ball with a 2150 penhold two winged looper. He is a friend, never touched the ball before, started a match right away and beat me with great comfort. 
The biggest difference of the new ball is the sound. It tricks your brain into the illusion that actual performance is much different too, but it is not. There is no drastic difference in any aspect. I don't see any significant rating readjustments with the new ball. 
To be honest, even though the new ball is easier to play, I think my chances of upsetting a much higher rated player are with the old ball. At least there you can connect and ram it through. This is more difficult here, even if he pops a bad ball, unless its right above the net, its difficult to put it away. He can recover from the bad position and regain initiative soon after that. 
I think the new ball will make upsets more difficult. Before the underdog could take some risky shots and if they go in he collects a point. Not this is more difficult, seems like the only way to win is to outplay your opponent. How will you pass the new ball past defenders like Samsonov is to be seen

Exactly what ball(s) did you try? Meaning, brand and model.
Back to Top
assiduous View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/01/2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2521 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:58am
seamless palio
puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
Back to Top
igorponger View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/29/2006
Location: Everywhere
Status: Offline
Points: 3252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:59am
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

I played a couple of matches with the new ball with a 2150 penhold two winged looper. He is a friend, never touched the ball before, started a match right away and beat me with great comfort. 
The biggest difference of the new ball is the sound. It tricks your brain into the illusion that actual performance is much different too, but it is not. There is no drastic difference in any aspect. I don't see any significant rating readjustments with the new ball. 
To be honest, even though the new ball is easier to play, I think my chances of upsetting a much higher rated player are with the old ball. At least there you can connect and ram it through. This is more difficult here, even if he pops a bad ball, unless its right above the net, its difficult to put it away. He can recover from the bad position and regain initiative soon after that. 
I think the new ball will make upsets more difficult. Before the underdog could take some risky shots and if they go in he collects a point. Not this is more difficult, seems like the only way to win is to outplay your opponent. How will you pass the new ball past defenders like Samsonov is to be seen


I AM TO AGREE.
No perceptible revolution to the World's TOP200 standing order is to happen with plastic.   Nothing good for defenders.

Underdogs defenders will remain all beaten and face down in muck.

To promote in deed our defenders/blockers/choppers we need the rubber total thickness to be limited to 3.5 mm.
Back to Top
roundrobin View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/02/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4708 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2014 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

seamless palio


Didn't ITTF already say that most of their 2014 (post July 1st) and 2015 events will be played with new seamed DHS balls made of cellulose diacetate?  The seamless Palio is made of completely different material.  The new DHS seamed balls will be very similar to current celluloid balls because it's also made of cellulose, with identical 2-pc. construction.  So your review is actually on something that WON'T be used, I am afraid.
Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986.
Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association.
My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red
Back to Top
Rich215 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3488 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2014 at 3:19pm
Yea....seems like the seamless Palio balls were released to get some $ back for a failed experiment in production of balls that were 60% to 70% not round in early produced batches.  

 
Back to Top
the_theologian View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/11/2009
Location: U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 3895 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2014 at 4:28pm


Well last night I tried palio prototype; recently purchased from ttnpp.com. Hated it from beginning to end. Super dusty out if the of the package and it maintained a gritty feel throughout play. The Sound Is Worse. More of the broken sound.



Edited by the_theologian - 04/30/2014 at 4:29pm
Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
Back to Top
kyle90 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 03/21/2010
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 558 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kyle90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2014 at 4:33pm
if you guys aren't testing ittf approved balls you're wasting your time as these prototypes they're selling are essentially failed samples. having played with both seamed and seamless poly balls, the seamed version plays very similar to the current ball.
Back to Top
the_theologian View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/11/2009
Location: U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 3895 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2014 at 4:35pm
I'm just wanting to try whatever is available. I actually like the XSF samples
Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
Back to Top
LUCKYLOOP View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/27/2013
Location: Pongville USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2800 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/02/2014 at 4:38am

I tried the Xushaofa plastic ball last night.

I did mostly counter looping with another guy mid to deep off the table. We didn't notice much difference, maybe a little slower and a little less spin.

Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
Back to Top
skip3119 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 02/24/2006
Location: somewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 8257 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2014 at 3:34pm
When ITTF will start using the new plastic balls (slightly bigger) for all ITTF sanctioned tournaments?
After July 1, 2014?
I lost track on this.
skip3119
Back to Top
igorponger View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/29/2006
Location: Everywhere
Status: Offline
Points: 3252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2014 at 5:00am
Non-cell ball by DHS, the only one to be exclusively employed for ITTF major events, OG Rio 2016 including.
The ball enacting date 1Jule 2014.

Due on general sell. on china market as of May 12.




Edited by igorponger - 05/11/2014 at 5:10am
Back to Top
the_theologian View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/11/2009
Location: U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 3895 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2014 at 2:59am


okay where can I buy some ittf approved seamless balls?


Edited by the_theologian - 06/12/2014 at 3:00am
Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
Back to Top
TSuBaSa View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 10/01/2003
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 1147 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TSuBaSa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2014 at 10:49am
Tabletennis11.com and schoeler-micke sells ittf approved 40+ balls. its about 8euros for six pack.
But they will ship the balls on mid July.

Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon
Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45
Back to Top
igorponger View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/29/2006
Location: Everywhere
Status: Offline
Points: 3252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2014 at 11:58am
Recent update on the DHS 40+ BALLS.


Dimo Ovtcharov while visiting in Russia Club's Champs last week, produced some interesing remarks on the plastic :

--
"DHS did pressed for some relaxation of the ball weight tolerance, up to 2.80 gr, so as to produce more stable and durable product.
A testing group of players of Germany, Japan, Brasil, Austria have now examined such heavier/harder balls and expressed their full acceptance. And the early DHS product was deemed unduly soft and cracky. "


Thus, DHS seamed ball is due on market in July, and it should be slightly heavier than current celluloid and less breakable, I hope for.

I am really happy to here the news.
I do hate cracky balls.
Back to Top
DistantStar View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/19/2012
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 275 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DistantStar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2014 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:

I doubt it, I think the lack of grip and spin is not due to the material but to the hardness.

Evidence: Tibhar JPS+ (hard celluloid) was similar or identical in spin, only faster.

All we can do is slightly decrease the rubber hardness, but I doubt we can recover all the lost spin.


How does hardness affect spin? did you mean density/weight? Lighter ball can't carry enough momentum to penetrate the sponge, causing euro rubber to be ineffective. Your following point about softer rubber seem to confirm my guess.

Anyho, If that was the case, wouldnt it make sense for EVERYONE to switch to tacky rubber? as tack spin is much less effected by ball momentum compared to grip spin? Just a thought...

Also, please do try a softer rubber and report back. Your OP make the new game sound devastating and I sincerely hope it's not the case :(
Nittaku Acoustic
Xiom Sigma Euro 2.0
Tibhar Genius Sound 2.0
Back to Top
the_theologian View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/11/2009
Location: U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 3895 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2014 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by TSuBaSa TSuBaSa wrote:

Tabletennis11.com and schoeler-micke sells ittf approved 40+ balls. its about 8euros for six pack.
But they will ship the balls on mid July.

 
Yeah I've been watching their page. But I'm looking for some already in stock.
Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 345
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.422 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.