The Great Top Sheet Spin Debate!

Recently, I've got several DHS H3 topsheets that are extremely tacky (hold the ball over 20 s.) but are very low-productive in the spin department. So I presume the belief tacky rubbers produce more spin is an urban myth.

Simple Analysis : How many of the top 25 ranked players in the world use a tacky topsheet on their 4H ? The 4H is considered dominate in their style. A tacky top sheet, with the proper technique, allows longer dwell time of the ball on the rubber, therefore should produce more spin !

Tacky (Chinese) wins easily !

Reflection at the amateur level: The majority of non Chinese players do not use a tacky top sheet.


Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 04/02/2014 at 6:01am

tommyzai wrote: Chinese = Tacky (flypaper based) Euro/Jap = Grippy (friction based) Sponges aside, which top sheet is capable of generating more spin?

Tackiness is primarily for controlled low gear, not for spin. Pimple structure and elasticity of rubber handle the spin. You'd better believe it!  Lets the war begin! :)

LUCKYLOOP wrote: NextLevel wrote: LUCKYLOOP wrote: Simple Analysis : How many of the top 25 ranked players in the world use a tacky topsheet on their 4H ? The 4H is considered dominate in their style. A tacky top sheet, with the proper technique, allows longer dwell time of the ball on the rubber, therefore should produce more spin ! Tacky (Chinese) wins easily ! Reflection at the amateur level: The majority of non Chinese players do not use a tacky top sheet. The number is probably less than 50% and believe it or not, there are Chinese players who do not use tacky topsheets as well.  Just about every non-Chinese player in the top 25 uses a non-tacky topsheet. Current World Ranking 1 MA Long (CHN)     2 XU Xin (CHN)     3 ZHANG Jike (CHN)     4 WANG Hao (CHN)     5 FAN Zhendong (CHN)     6 OVTCHAROV Dimitrij (GER)     7 YAN An (CHN)     8 BOLL Timo (GER)     9 CHUANG Chih-Yuan (TPE)     10 SAMSONOV Vladimir (BLR)     11 MA Lin (CHN) * 12 WANG Liqin (CHN) * 13 MIZUTANI Jun (JPN)     14 HAO Shuai (CHN)     15 FREITAS Marcos (POR)     16 MATSUDAIRA Kenta (JPN)     17 ZHOU Yu (CHN)     18 NIWA Koki (JPN)     19 JOO Saehyuk (KOR)     20 GAO Ning (SIN)     21 TANG Peng (HKG)     22 CHEN Qi (CHN)     23 BAUM Patrick (GER)     23 STEGER Bastian (GER)     25 CHEN Chien-An (TPE There are at least 13-15 and maybe as many as 18 if you include other super tacky top sheets which are not made in China.

tommyzai wrote: The majority of top players use sticky topsheets, but does that necessarily mean those top sheets generate more spin?

Not sure if this is true, but the majority of the Chinese use tacky top sheet and they are the best. But, who here thinks they are the best due to their tacky topsheets?

Another thing to consider here is, ´for what shot is the topsheet the most important? According to me, it's brush strokes where the sponge don't come in to play much, so, more or less the touch shots, such as serve and serve return. And, most top players of today seem to prefer to return serves with their bh. How many players use tacky rubbers on their bh?

In the end, its a matter of personal preferences. Like Haggisv said earlier, Ive found that tacky rubbers generate more spin on serves (not significantly, in my case) while I seem to get more spin from grippy rubbers in other parts of the game.

tommyzai wrote: Chinese = Tacky (flypaper based) Euro/Jap = Grippy (friction based) Sponges aside, which top sheet is capable of generating more spin?

depends on the player, and the player's technique (skill level)

Lestat wrote: Tack is there for control mostly. Apart from serves and top gear, grippy rubbers are spinner in my opinion.

tommyzai wrote: tt4me wrote: . . . <span style="line-height: 1.4;">How many times do I have to say this? </span> So, which produces more spin?;-)

it is not a matter of tackiness vs grippiness.  it's how tacky or how grippy the top sheet is.  a slightly tacky rubber is not as spinny as a very grippy rubber and vice versa.  it's how much friction the top sheet can produce.  different rubbers, whether tacky or grippy, have various degrees of friction.

tuco wrote: it is not a matter of tackiness vs grippiness.  it's how tacky or how grippy the top sheet is.

Avallo wrote: The most spinny is chinese players spin.... And they are using tacky rubbers on their FH It means that tacky rubber for best spin... Ps:only if u can use it

It's also a question of stroke.

Tack and frictional force (grip) is just not the same thing.
Tack is related to an ecqual opposing force perpendicular from a surface as from ballweight.
Hence the tack is also perpendicular to the rubbersurface as a force (not just a force component).
Grip,frictional force runs parallel to the contactsurface (no matter how soft the sponge).
No less then ninety degree difference between tack and grip.

Two rubbers can have same tack and be completely different for frictional force.
A test example would be to pour some honey on a rubber and spread it evenly as a thin layer. The tack on a ball will be quite good but grip will for sure be  lousy.

So called grippy versus tacky, european or japanese versus chinees only mixes this up and confuses.

Another enlightening testexample can be to cut a broken ball in parts with much less weight then a ball.  Pressed firmly to a Tenergy rubber it has good chance Tenergy can lift this for hours if the piece of celluloid is light enough.  So obviously Tenergy is tacky also (allbeit less then Hurricanes).

Wether the maximum lifted weight is more or less then the full weight of a ball is arbitrary for making such a distinction between tacky and non tacky.





Edited by mercuur - 04/03/2014 at 7:33am