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The biggest hole in my game - smashing

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GeneralSpecific View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04/16/2014 at 4:34pm
My username is GeneralSpecific and I can't smash against lob...

I've always been very proud of how my game has progressed these past years. My technique and form has been moving in a very satisfactory way. Everything except smashing against lobs.

Don't get me wrong I have no relative problem attacking a 3rd ball or killing a pop up. However, if my opponent is far from the table and is lobbing, the longer the rally goes on the less of a chance I have of winning that point.

I can't quite figure out how to smash consistently. I've watched the pingskills video where they tell you to hit through the ball and while they are correct in what they say I just still can't get it down. What's even worse is when my opponent puts on a little side spin to their lob and the ball bounces to the side after it hits the table and I'm not expecting it. I can sometimes dropshot the ball but as we all know that's not always the best way to go about it.

I realize I'm only of about average height and not tall which would help in smashing. Though if someone like Kreanga who is a little shorter than I am can smash the ball so perfectly, then clearly there is something I am doing wrong.

Can you guys help provide some tips? Thanks


Edited by GeneralSpecific - 04/16/2014 at 4:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2014 at 4:47pm
Have a training partner who'll lob and just keep practicing to smash.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2014 at 4:52pm
Yeah but I don't think I want to keep doing more of the wrong thing. Is there either a video or a description that goes into detail about smashing besides the pingskills video?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2014 at 4:53pm
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+smash+lobs+in+table+tennis

You can also learn to dropshot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2014 at 4:59pm
It seems the pingskills video is the best one... I guess all I can do is know focus some practice only on smash.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2014 at 5:12pm
Some of the things that have helped me:

1. Try to keep you feet moving as the lob is in the air.  Even if it is only little mini-stepping in place.  There is a strong tendency to judge where the ball is going to land, move there, and then freeze in place.  If you judge slightly wrong (and side-spin makes this harder) it is hard to adjust. 

So keep those feet moving until after the ball bounces.

2. Make sure that you do get turned more sideways to the table than for a normal stroke.  If you are more square to the table (as you would be for a normal stroke) you have great difficulty in adjusting to a ball that is longer or shorter than you initially judged.  Once you turn sideways the arm swing is more adaptable to a ball that is shorter or longer than expected.

3. Always try to take the ball on the rise and at the same height (I like it just above head height).  This way you have one swing and not the 3 or 4 different swings  for different ball heights or different timings if you let the ball drop.

Getting use to the side-spin is something that just takes practice.  A great example of this happened at a tournament recently.  I play often with a player who lobs with a fake opposite motion when I block short when he is off the table.  He hits the ball below table height (where I can not see his racket) and then follows through in the opposite direction.  I was playing a high rated player and he did one of these to me.  Just before the ball landed I stepped way over in the opposite direction he faked and killed the ball past him.  He looked at me like "How does a player at your level do that?".  I was only able to do it because I had seen that shot numerous times from my friend.   He hit that same fake side lob to another player in the RR group and the guy took the fake and ended up about 5 feet away from where the ball bounced.  It was such a bad miss that even he started laughing.

Good luck.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pondus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2014 at 5:13pm
What usually happens - do you hit the ball into net or do you hit it long?

I've seen video of you playing before, so I know it's not a physical limitation issue per say (ie lack of power), so I think it's simply a matter of getting proper timing and body positioning down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2014 at 5:14pm
I experienced the same thing after a few years of training to acquire proper technique, and I think all that focus on form goes to your head. 

IMO, all form and technique should go out the window when smashing. (well almost)

Find any garage ping pong player and lob against them, they will probably have some awesome smashes.

Basically what I'm getting at is don't think about your technique just see the other side of the table and smash down at it. Try and forget about spin and stuff, if you hit it hard enough it won't matter much what spin they put on the ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2014 at 5:27pm
For what usually happens, it's both. I'll either hit the ball in the net or it goes long. If I see I'm hitting long I try to adjust and it ends in the net. If I see it going in the net I try to adjust and it ends up going long.

These have been some great tips from everybody. It must be a positioning and timing thing especially. I have a feeling I stay to close to the table on smashes too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2014 at 5:28pm
Some other thoughts:

This is a mental game. If you are smashing against lob you have an extreme advantage already. I'm guessing when you start doing this you get nervous because you know you are inconsistent here, when a more confident player would feel that advantage and channel it into finishing the point. If this is happening try to relax and enjoy your advantage, make them helplessly chase your smashes all around the court.

Perhaps add a little sidespin of your own, even a little bit on a smash will curve the ball a lot if your opponent is away from the table.

If you can land a few before missing, you may be making it too easy for them to return. The most helpful advice I can give here is to vary the timing on your smash. Sometimes hit it earlier when it is still on its way up, sometimes a little later than usual. This is easier than trying to hit wide angles if you are inconsistent because you can still aim at the largest part of the table, just vary timing.

Like I said though, the most important thing is to have fun when smashing because you are already winning the point. Watch out for the big counter loop though!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2014 at 5:39pm
Read mjamja's post again.  He's right on.  It's almost always the footwork.  Be patient.  After the defender returns 4 or 5 smashes, most hitters get frustrated and really try to kill the ball.  Just keep it on the table usually aiming at their body.  I try to attack the ball early.  I find that the higher I let it bounce the higher it will go toward my opponent and the more time they have to return it.  Keep the feet moving and be patient.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2014 at 7:22pm
Hi GeneralSpecific
Here are some keys:
1. Since the ball got bigger and therefore harder to put away, even CNT players will sometimes miss against good length lobs.
2. Against good length lobs the pros are patient, using only 80% power with the accent on not missing and being ready to deal with a counter smash
3.practice against lob using 70% power so that you have a chance to develop footwork and patience.
4. aim for lobbers body to cramp him
5.If yr opponent is in comfort zone lobbing, then block short then kill before he can get back. This is called "rocking tactics"
6. Dont try to win on any one shot. The best plan is to try to win on the 'NEXT' shot. This means steadily gaining small advantages until the opponent cracks.
Hope this helps
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Video demo by Doctor Tang Jianjun:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote regiz.rugenz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2014 at 4:08pm
same here.. theoretically I know how I should be executing it but just literally can't.. yet, as the song (from OMD) goes "it's a matter of time"... thus, practice makes perfect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LaRedoute Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2014 at 7:58am
Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

My username is GeneralSpecific and I can't smash against lob...

aaand you real name is Hao Shuai?! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aman1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2014 at 9:06am
I am a lobber / fisher.  I can tell you when I am back off the table, I am no threat to you. (I'm working on my counter looping).  I am just waiting for you to miss.   If the lob is deep, just hit a solid loop.  The loop has less speed, but is easier to keep on the table.  Be patient.   Pin me to the backhand corner.  If the lobber hits a short lob, that is when you must attack it with a hard flat smash, almost in a downward stroke.  Hit the ball on the upward motion off the bounce.  I can fish and lob against stronger players who have strong loops.  But if the lob is short you have to put it away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2014 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by LaRedoute LaRedoute wrote:

Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

My username is GeneralSpecific and I can't smash against lob...

aaand you real name is Hao Shuai?! LOL

I know right LOL


So anyway, I think I've had some improvement today. The biggest help came from the suggestion to always keep your feet moving. I think I sometimes assume the ball will be in too certain of a location and I could be wrong. Moving my feet (with proper footwork) allows me to better react and position myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2014 at 9:50pm
Practice smashing- have your partner put different spins on the ball (corkscrew, sidespin, top). Look at the movement that your partner makes on the ball and predict the bounce on the table and position using sidesteps for the forehand.
Always try to use topspin on your smash to get the ball on the table. 
Use your left arm to aim at the ball. The left arm is used by many to measure the height of the ball and makes whiffing balls less likely. Try to jump off your right leg and jump up and rotate into your ball if its a high lob, land with your left leg and then your right.  

Mental- Put it in your mind that the smash is a hard shot. Some people take it too lightly and they don't move in position and then miss the shot. 
 


Edited by kenneyy88 - 04/18/2014 at 9:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kurokami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2014 at 10:14pm
stay relaxed, move so you're not too close, swing fast.i had problems with smashing as well (secret weakness) until i played a 2100 lobber over and over. a lot of adults tend to whip their arm. don't. it appears faster but it's actually not that useful vs stronger players and risky. you still want to drive and control the smashes. getting a good angle and driving deep with your body weight is more important. that's how you knock it far and high.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2014 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

Practice smashing- have your partner put different spins on the ball (corkscrew, sidespin, top). Look at the movement that your partner makes on the ball and predict the bounce on the table and position using sidesteps for the forehand.
Always try to use topspin on your smash to get the ball on the table. 
Use your left arm to aim at the ball. The left arm is used by many to measure the height of the ball and makes whiffing balls less likely. Try to jump off your right leg and jump up and rotate into your ball if its a high lob, land with your left leg and then your right.  

Mental- Put it in your mind that the smash is a hard shot. Some people take it too lightly and they don't move in position and then miss the shot. 
 

I like what you said about using your left arm to measure the ball, I do this too.

However I think putting in your mind that the smash is a hard shot is exactly the opposite of what you want to do.
A smash is the most natural shot in the entire game. If you give a regular joe off the street a paddle, and he has never played before, a smash would probably be his most consistent and favorite shot. He would not be able to loop, probably be bad at pushing or chopping. But anyone can whack a ball down at the table. 
Over thinking smashes will hurt you in the long run.

Don't take it lightly either, remained focused and keep your eye on the ball. If you have to think about one thing while smashing, just think keep your feet moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aroonkl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2014 at 3:37pm
1000 times of shadow strokes. Rehearsing in your mind all movement and weight transfer.
They will build your muscle memory.
Practice with partner to gain your timing and angle.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2014 at 5:11pm
GP... i love hitting against lobbers. Don't know if this video against our top lobber (was usatt 2300, now 2100+) could be of any help.




But if you like it, then only i will tell you the trick that my coach taught me!
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yes we want to know the trick from your coach...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2014 at 6:22pm
Yeah Debraj, no need to hold back. I think we're all interested. I even made it to the end of your video with the message at the end.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 1:56pm
ha ha... thanks for your interest. i was not sure if i was up to mark... so wanted to hold back.

the main trick is starting position of the hand. Consider drive/loop and smash as completely different strokes with no smooth trasition from one another. So decide early if you want to drive or smash. And if you decide to smash the racket should be way high up (not low then up then low again). The hand, the ball (at the position you hit it) and the spot on the table where you hit these three should be in a straight line.

Its probably common sense, but without conscious awareness, we often don't apply this common sense.

lastly, do not hit slow or medium like we do with loops (like start looping slow then as we mature, we gain speed). On contrary start hitting hard from beginning (i don't man you as beginning...but newbies) and over time gain consistency.

well in the video i'm not 100% compliant to the hand instruction... but if it was my old coach, he would have... and he wouldn't have missed any smash like i did a few... ha ha!!


Edited by debraj - 04/22/2014 at 1:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by debraj debraj wrote:

ha ha... thanks for your interest. i was not sure if i was up to mark... so wanted to hold back.

the main trick is starting position of the hand. Consider drive/loop and smash as completely different strokes with no smooth trasition from one another. So decide early if you want to drive or smash. And if you decide to smash the racket should be way high up (not low then up then low again). The hand, the ball (at the position you hit it) and the spot on the table where you hit these three should be in a straight line.

Its probably common sense, but without conscious awareness, we often don't apply this common sense.

lastly, do not hit slow or medium like we do with loops (like start looping slow then as we mature, we gain speed). On contrary start hitting hard from beginning (i don't man you as beginning...but newbies) and over time gain consistency.

well in the video i'm not 100% compliant to the hand instruction... but if it was my old coach, he would have... and he wouldn't have missed any smash like i did a few... ha ha!!
My coach has been trying to force me to topspin without dropping my elbow - he points out that I do it well on the BH side which is why I can punch and spin out of similar positions but my forehand stroke is just different.  Thanks for making it clearer to me again why I need this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 4:15pm
You have to start your stroke above the ball, players tend to spin drive so much these days they get so grooved to an upward brush on the ball, to smash you need to be flat into the wood of the blade, and with a torso 45deg to the table, that way you can hit across your body with weight transferring from right to left foot ( or vice versa) 
Stand sideways to the table, and imagine yourself slapping someone across the face, that just about sums things up. Biggest technical mistake I see is standing too square which makes a player hit across the ball with fade, losing power and consistency.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

You have to start your stroke above the ball, players tend to spin drive so much these days they get so grooved to an upward brush on the ball, to smash you need to be flat into the wood of the blade

Absolutely true.
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