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beginners with expensive, overly fast equipment |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Pondus
Gold Member Joined: 04/07/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1933 |
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I don't really pay much attention to what equipment others are using - well, outside of whether it's inverted, pips... etc. If someone asks me for advice, I'll take a look at their game and give them my opinion on what I think might suit them. But other than that, I have plenty of things to worry about with my own game, let alone find the mind-space to worry about whether it's appropriate for this guy and that guy to have a fast $200 blade or not.
— EDIT: Reading over what I wrote here, I realize it can be read sounding a bit "high horse-ish"... was really not intended that way. |
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kurokami
Gold Member Joined: 11/08/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1277 |
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"Spin on. Smash off." "Remember. It's not the racket. And attitude!" "Topspin. lives in everything i do ___... everything is topspin loop"
Edited by kurokami - 04/21/2014 at 12:03pm |
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Viscaria
H3N/T05 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65345&KW=&title=feedback-kurokami |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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Secure socket http ruins YouTube links. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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suds79
Silver Member Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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Two things from this thread.
1 - Beginners with expensive equipment. I will always think it's stupid, unnecessary & damaging to your technique to go out and spend 200-300 on your first blade but what do I care if they blow their money. 2 - As far as the coming right out and smashing thing, some people just don't know (in fact a lot of people as I think about it) how to warm up. Beginners at least have an excuse because they're new. They just need to either be taught how to warm up or need to watch professional matches and pay attention two the 2 minute warm-up before play starts. But there are several people at the club I attend where their idea of warm-up is like playing points. Most of the time I will just give half effort (I'm not going to go chasing balls) and if I feel like the practice is bad, I'll simply ask to start the match... Might as well if you're playing match like points anyways. Shoot my best friend at the club is guilty of this. He never does counter-driving warm up. Everything turns into step away from the table and start going for monster loops. SMH. What can you do.
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puppy412
Silver Member Joined: 03/25/2013 Location: houston Status: Offline Points: 686 |
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when playing beginners what I subconsciously do is try to identify what they can do.
then just do whatever I want but always throw it to that place where they can answer in a way that they can answer. also I realized many beginners have this thing when playing "high level players" that they get all nervous and inhibited and make stupid mistakes. so I try my best to get them to relax and show them that I'm just like them and I make mistakes all the time too (all this without saying a word, just by my play). if this is successful most times they relax and bring out a very good player that was hidden somewhere and expecting to play someone who could give them a lot of balls back. this to me is awesome. seeing a player who was barely passing balls with another beginner start hitting super balls just because he is playing a player who can give them more balls back. all this thing you guys talk about is more like an ego battle. it's like you want to play it nice but when the other guy does something you don't approve you get offended and try to "teach them a lesson" and then it's all like a ping pong fight to see who is better. it's like deep down you are trying to defend your ego/reputation because you are unsure. as for equipment, after having tried most stuff out there, I don't think there is something much faster or much slower than something else. everything is pretty similar to everything else. so whatever they use is fine. actually if a beginner uses a mizutani with 2 tenergy I would probably feel rather excited and ask him to try it Edited by puppy412 - 04/21/2014 at 1:24pm |
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ChichoFicho
Platinum Member Joined: 06/24/2009 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 2118 |
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When I see beginners using expensive Butterfly carbon blades and Tenergy, I get my 5$ paddle (handmade blade and Palio CK531 OX) from the basement and beat them by just chopping.
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Darker Speed 70
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puppy412
Silver Member Joined: 03/25/2013 Location: houston Status: Offline Points: 686 |
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actually now that I think of it, there are a couple of guys in my club that use super beginner stuff, like premades with no spin at all. it's much harder to handle spin or make any kind of shot with this than a gergely with 2 tenergies. they would do much better if they used an equipment that helps them more. also even the fastest equipment dies down a lot after a couple months, almost to the point of old srivers or mark v. so yeah, I'd totally give a schlager carbon + two tenergies to a beginner Edited by puppy412 - 04/21/2014 at 1:07pm |
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jrscatman
Premier Member Joined: 10/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4585 |
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I had a similar encounter - since the player in question was good friend - I asked about this behaviour. I thought his answer might be useful for everyone to understand their side He says to me. "At my age, it's very rare in matches I would get any chance to hit balls like that - so every time an opportunity presents itself - I'm gonna take it - practice or not!" So now when we practice, I just try to set him up for some smashes - practice my retrieval skills. It's not too bad since I like playing defensive style.
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Butterfly MPS
FH: Donic Acuda S1 BH: Palio CK531A OX |
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jrscatman
Premier Member Joined: 10/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4585 |
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I like this idea In fact - I can offer a suggestion - when a person misses the table - we switch sides - so the person who hit the shot can go collect the ball and be on the side closest to the ball!
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Butterfly MPS
FH: Donic Acuda S1 BH: Palio CK531A OX |
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frogger
Premier Member Joined: 08/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
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+1! Agree some want to "warm up" by blasting every ball at max not thinking about the next shot or placement. It's frustrating to keep telling them to slow it down a notch and concentrate on consistency not power. Power will always be there when the opportunity arises. |
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Wood Paddle
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Rich215
Premier Member Joined: 02/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3488 |
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title of this thread should have "fast equipment" in it.
There are lots of expensive blades and rubbers that are ALL to DEF speeds. But I understand what the OP is saying.....usually some beginners that buy expensive stuff .....they pick carbon blades and Tenergys or Tensors they cant handle. And its not that they have or use them...its that they will not understand that they cant handle it....lol Maybe when you see them....or hit with them, tell them "Ok...move about 12 feet back off the table....that is where that setup will work for you and not any closer" haaaaaaaaaa |
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suds79
Silver Member Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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Yep agreed. If you ever get the chance to warm up with Nathan or Quan, they're excellent warm-up partners for getting in a groove quickly.
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1dennistt
Silver Member Joined: 03/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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Tale of two players with fast equipment from a few years back. Both choose a Gergley carbon blade with Bryce on both sides (remember this was a while back). One listened to his coaches, and gradually developed the touch and strokes to use his chosen combo, and advanced fairly rapidly in the sport.
The other player has proven to be less successful. He doesn't take advice easily (from anyone), and is still stuck in beginner mode after all these years. Still smacks every ball like he did when he first started playing, and is always asking why he misses so many shots. The answer is always the same, get a coach, practice proper technique, and practice some more. His response is the same also, "I already know how to do it, just tell me why I miss so much!" This second type player is the one that incites the venom you hear in the posts. There are some players you just can't help they already "know it all," and are looking for the "magic" that will make them better players.
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Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
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in2spin
Silver Member Joined: 12/09/2008 Status: Offline Points: 988 |
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i like the idea of whoever misses picks up the ball, because the person then has to walk all the way behind me, and return to his side before we can start hitting again you'd think they'd get tired of that, after a while..... :)
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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if we get angry or sarcastic to see beginners with expensive equipment, its our problem, not theirs.
we need to control our superciliousness, and if we think the equipment is faster than his/her ability, we can politely advise. if the equipment is expensive but still helps them ... like tenergy fx 2.0 both sides of a Timo Boll AL .... then we don't need to get upset and let them play. |
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popperlocker
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1753 |
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Wow, very friendly, productive, and intelligent method. Kind of like wax on, wax off, but better. |
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aroonkl
Silver Member Joined: 07/08/2011 Status: Offline Points: 748 |
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debraj, You got wrong impression here. Newbies' expensive gear does not bother good players much. It is the attitude toward playing. In this case 3 things happened. Read OP's opening thread. == ================ 1. the guy tried to smash from the get-go (a big no-no for me) 2. he approached me "let's play" with a smug confidence as if he were equal to me just bc he could smash back and forth with U1600, their "local experts" (sigh, must teach a lesson) 3. by saying he needs to switch his racket after missing, he implies it's the equipment and not the difference in our level ==================
Edited by aroonkl - 04/21/2014 at 6:51pm |
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pgpg
Gold Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1306 |
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That was an 'interesting' thread - and it seems like it has very little to do with the cost of equipment. I have a couple of comments (I am 1200, by the way, one of the unwashed peasants, so to speak).
1. What someone paid for their equipment is really none of my business. They most likely overpaid, but so does 80% of this forum, folks with EJ affliction in particular. May be they got bad advice, may be they don't consider it expensive, who cares - not your money. 2. Not sure what's up with 'not my equal' and 'must teach a lesson' - this attitude rubs me the wrong way. You are both TT players and paying customers. 3. OP somehow ends up playing with the offender for an hour or so - how come? In my club if there are people waiting, you play the game and get it over with - so it's 20 min suffering at most if you are so mismatched in level. If he was the only partner there - well, I'm sorry, but you kind of need him then, no? 4. It sounded from the reference to 'local experts' that offender was at his home club and you were a guest? OK, so they don't have very high level players there and their 'house rules' or etiquette are not up to your standard. Not a big deal in the end, since it sounds you won't enjoy playing there. Look, TT is a niche sport in US and it does not help when some folks are hell bent on 'teaching a lesson' every chance they get. |
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rusttt
Super Member Joined: 03/16/2014 Location: Danbury, CT Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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+1000! Edited by rusttt - 04/21/2014 at 10:23pm |
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aroonkl
Silver Member Joined: 07/08/2011 Status: Offline Points: 748 |
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When I play 1100 player, I am 1400.
When I play 1600 player, I am 1900. I don't think a lot higher level players kill lower players with all over loops and feel fun. They mostly let lower players exploit things, play to have fun but they still control the point. But when there is a big air-head shows arrogant, and not respect their lot higher level skill. I think they should show the different in level. I think TT is nice and humble already. What will happen if a beginner level talks trash, goes to the high level guys, acts cocky and asks for sparring match. ========================================== Look, TT is a niche sport in US and it does not help when some folks are hell bent on 'teaching a lesson' every chance they get. ==========================================
Edited by aroonkl - 04/22/2014 at 2:16am |
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boaspirit
Super Member Joined: 02/23/2013 Location: usa md Status: Offline Points: 205 |
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haha that was funny how he keep switching rackets. i think there's nothing wrong with using fast equipment when your starting out its just that it important to keep good technique. but it seem like this guy did not know how to use his equipment when i started getting serious i use fast equipment too but i was determined to use good technique and practice every day on my strokes. this guy one the other hand only wanted to show off lol serves him right |
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yogi_bear
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it's not about the price. there are a lot of pricey equipment that are not super fast. it's about the speed and control of the equipment
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BH-Man
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Koreans seem to be very brand oriented wanting the top end stuff, whether it is TT equipment or accessories. They spare almost no expense, and make up for it by stretching the use of their rubber to one year.
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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
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assiduous
Platinum Member Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
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Do you even know how to loop? You make it sound like you make a choice but I have a feeling your game is much like pushblocker anyway.
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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assiduous
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Of course. Innershield ZLF is a BTY synthetic blade. Slow like a turtle, soft like cotton. And the op sounds obnoxious to me. You must think you are really cool, you are the boss, for 'showing' that noob and 'teaching him a lesson'. Why didn't u just tell him friendly that YOU THINK his paddle is too fast? Fool..
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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Toprank
Super Member Joined: 02/05/2011 Location: Ventura CA Status: Offline Points: 481 |
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Seems like there are 3 topics here- If I encounter a player that likes to hit winners (worse, at my level or above my level) during practice I usually will try to return the best I can for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes of me chasing the ball I just jump to, "it looks like you're ready let's play". Only a couple of times has someone said no. If the person is significantly below my level plays a match with me, I'll usually will ask do you want me to give my best effort or do you want me to take it easy. I get about half that say give me your best and the other half says you can take it easy. So I will try to fulfill their wishes.
Edited by Toprank - 04/22/2014 at 11:29pm |
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Tassie52
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Edited by Tassie52 - 04/22/2014 at 11:57pm |
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doraemon
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It's not about the equipment. It is the way the opponent smash all balls during warm up. The idea of warm up is to put the ball so that you can hit back nicely and vice versa. So do you like to warm up with somebody who kill / smash every ball you feed him?? Edited by doraemon - 04/23/2014 at 1:36am |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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Doreamon, So the question of whether OP actually spoke to the 1200 as opposed to just make the 1200 think that warming up harder against the OP was hard because the OP could warm up harder than the 1200 is important. Assiduous is simply saying more directly what I said earlier that many people who warm up poorly should be talked to before being treated like jerks. You can take the OP's approach as well, but do it knowing that you might be promoting the problem, not solving it. On the other hand, practicing killing weaker balls consistently is important because the aggressive mindset is important when facing higher rated players - the OP can do that but only ideally if it is within his hitting pace and for a 1200 vs 2100+, it usually is. It's one of the reasons why people mess up on the "Guess the Rating" competitions. They identify many theoretically weaker balls that the opponent should be eating up, but people who don't kill weaker balls on a consistent basis don't eat those balls up!
Edited by NextLevel - 04/23/2014 at 3:54am |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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