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Lobbing style of play strategy |
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jrscatman
Premier Member Joined: 10/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4585 |
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Posted: 04/24/2014 at 1:33am |
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I am interested in trying to play the lobbing style game. But I am not sure what is involved in terms of strategy.
Is the idea just lob everything back and hope the other person misses or are there other things to be done? Changing the amount of spin, height of the ball. Any suggestions much appreciated. Also, any pros that play this style - Michael Maze?
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Butterfly MPS
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glanden.zheng
Silver Member Joined: 07/28/2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 520 |
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I've played against a lobber before, and you're right I think in the sense that the amount of spin and height is what would matter the most. Michael Maze is definitely someone you could look into. I find Mizutani and Gao Ning (he has a different type of "lob"), as well as early Xu Xin and Ma Lin people to consider as well. And with the style of play I reckon it's kinda like a chopper, but with topspin; you hope the other misses/ gets tired through variation in your own game in spin, although like you said there's height to consider as well. Just putting it out there, but I suggest that in modern table tennis it's probably not a good idea to use lobbing as a main style. I still managed to beat the lobber I played just because that eventually, there won't be as much variation as there will be if you play an offensive game, or even a chopper, as there are a lot more counter-attacking options in those type of play compared to the number of options when you're more than 4 or 5 metres away from the table. Even good lobbers like Michael Maze don't lob unless they have to, or it clearly works (i.e. Michael Maze against Hao Shuai). But imo if you integrate good lobbing into an offensive game, it would be great against people lower in level, as even when you are in the defensive you might still have an advantage. Off to a tangent there, but I hope whatever I said helped
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V-Griper
Silver Member Joined: 09/19/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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The only player I am aware of who defaults to lobbing is Don Hamilton. Gotta see him play live it's crazy. Definitely need to mix in some attacking shots so there is some kind of credible threat but overall I would say that it is not as effective as chopping. Also MM and XX only lobbed when forced off of the table, they were primarily attacking players.
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ChichoFicho
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To summarize all the strategy involved in lobbing: hit high and deep and hope to catch the table.
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NextLevel
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You have to develop fishing skills as well and be good at moving in and out. Lobbing is best combined with chopping and sidespin fishing. The best lobber I play (and my club is not a lobbing club because of the low ceiling tends to do well when he gives you an easy ball and then he does something to.change his contact point and you mishit the next one because it is not the same ball but looks similar.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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vvk1
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@chichoficho:
You've forgotten a far more important bit - how to develop a point into a lobbing/fishing rally and whether to do so at all - because most game points in your typical game will not be like the ones between Maze and Hao Shuai ... Edited by vvk1 - 04/24/2014 at 10:04am |
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ByeByeAbout
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this style of half lobbing is exactly the way you don't want to do it. all his lops have very little trajectory and barely clear the net. you have to put *much* more arc on it and hit the back line for it to be really effective. any decent player would cream these semi lobs. regards rick |
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suds79
Silver Member Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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Not a whole lot else to say. I'd only have this skill in my bag if I'm forced off the table and in trouble. Try to keep a few lobs in and hope they miss one. Steal a cheap point. Otherwise, I don't think this is where you want to go.
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jrscatman
Premier Member Joined: 10/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4585 |
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Thanks every one for your input.
I currently am able to chop - I just wanted to added something different to the game. So basically it's the same thing as chopping except I am using topspins instead of backspin. Return the ball high and deep - wait for the opponent to block a short ball and attack. V-Griper thanks for the video - helped to sort of figure out in my mind how the points should be played. Suds79 -
Edited by jrscatman - 04/24/2014 at 10:54am |
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Butterfly MPS
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in2spin
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lobbing is generally used only if you are in deep doo doo.....(generally)....
however, players like james (who won 2200 @ nationals last year), regularly employ this strategy, and he is very, very good at it successful lobbing requires a very high shot (higher the better), and deep on the table. if the lob is close to the net, it is easy to cream. if high and deep, it is actually not that easy of a ball to return, much less trying to smash it. some subtle sidespin variations add unpredictability to the lobbing game. if you look at the debraj video vs james, you can see how james consistently basically never gives you the same look twice, and notice the subtle changes in sidespin he utilizes in order to really make you concentrate on where the ball is (or will be) :)
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jrscatman
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Thanks for the video tip. I also use lob as last resort - when in trouble. However, in looking at some of the videos and thinking about - I'm thinking a lob similar to a chop can be used to setup an attack. Especially, if you prefer to play mid distance or far from the table.
I think it's possible as to whether I can implement it - remains to be seen - I'll try testing it out tomorrow.
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Butterfly MPS
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JohnnyChop
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I don't think LP is a good option for lobbing... you might be better off chopping unless you change rubbers!
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jrscatman
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Yes, my current setup is 2 inverted rubbers on an all wood blade. My normal game is Modern Defence. But use a smooth/smooth setup for trying other stuff.
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Butterfly MPS
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JohnnyChop
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if you are planning to change types of shot during a rally (not always lobbing), then you will need to consider what kind of shots is the opponent able to hit back…
A high and deep lob will most likely result in a high smash that will be coming down at you when you hit your next shot A fishing type lob will probably result in lower power loop coming straight at you which personally i find a little bit easier to counter attack if i can get in position |
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jrscatman
Premier Member Joined: 10/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4585 |
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Good points. Have to try various types of lobs to see how it works. I am thinking it might be just very high spinny balls more than lobs.
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Butterfly MPS
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mjamja
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From what I have observed it seems that the fishing vs lobbing choice is somewhat driven by distance you are off the table. As you get farther back off the table it is more difficult to fish and easier to lob. Also once you choose to lob the returns tend to be stronger and drive you farther back making it more likely you will need to continue lobbing.
Often I see a player get out of position (but not too deep off the table) and choose to start a fishing rally. They stay more at mid-depth while fishing waiting for a chance to counter-attack. If while fishing they are driven wider and farther back they then resort to more of a lobbing game. I do not remember seeing too many rallies where a player switched from lobbing back to fishing although there can be quite a bit of height variation within what I would consider a fishing rally. I love playing lobbers. I hate playing fishers, especially ones who use a lot of side-spin. Good luck and please write back about how it goes and what you learn. Mark
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jrscatman
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Well I tried it out. It's harder than it looks consistently trying to lob. Also, you need a lot of room behind the table - I found I was getting jammed quite a bit due to lack of space behind me.
When I was able to lob - the people I played (intermediate level 1200 - 1400 CDN) had trouble. The lighting in our place is not great - one the players said he was having problem seeing the ball when it was up in the air. So it can be effective. On my side - footwork was terrible, also was late quite a few times - letting the ball get too close to my body. With a little practice it should be fun way to play. Try it out at the tournament tomorrow - if there is enough space. Thanks all for your suggestions!
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Butterfly MPS
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APW46
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Lobbing/fishing effectively is all about dominating the angle of play, or put simply, limiting the directional opportunities of your opponents drives/smashes with good ball placement, and recovering to an optimum court position that allows easy reach of incoming balls and a controlled return with depth and placement. Its not just about getting balls back. For example, a lob down the line means your opponent cannot play any angle into that line wider than the line itself, and most importantly an extension of it into your court area, which means you don't have to cover that area of court and can move into the optimum position before he hits the ball, ie you are dictating his placement to a certain extent, so can be waiting for it.
Left handers hooked sidespin lobs to the b/hand corner of a r/hander are the clearest example of how efficient dominating the angle of play can be.
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jrscatman
Premier Member Joined: 10/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4585 |
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Most Excellent - very good info. Thanks! I was just trying to get it as deep as possible without any other real thoughts. This gives me good idea of what I should try to do. So when 2 right handers are playing - the lob should go to the bh corner - down the line shot is limited in angle - cover the cross table smash!
Edited by jrscatman - 04/26/2014 at 7:57am |
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Butterfly MPS
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APW46
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It depends, you can dictate his options within reason, if you lob deep to the b/hand he cannot angle you wide to your f/hand, but can angle you wide of your b/hand, so you can move into a biased court position in anticipation of this, if he complies and hits cross court to your b/hand and you lob down the line, he can't hit the next ball wide of your b/hand, but can hit wide of your f/hand, so you move into a biased court position to cover the possible wide angle. Once you understand the possible angle of play for every incoming stroke based on what you have just delivered, things become so much easier when playing off the table.
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Egghead
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One of my teammates plays this style, not that much different than the chopping style. You put in various spins(no spin, under-spin, side-spin) and various speeds when you lobbing the ball. Then, you try to attack when you have that feeling. Having said that, I find that the serve is very important in playing this style. |
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Snakefish
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Just watch Joe Ng lob. |
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Andro Treiber Z - fl
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jrscatman
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Hey, that's right, I used to watch him many years ago when he used show up and play. Maybe this where I got the idea to try lobbing...forgot all about him!
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Butterfly MPS
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jrscatman
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Very true, I am finding it very similar - just need to practice more. I find when I plan to chop, I give deep serves people can attack - same thing here. But got beat badly by a player - who dropped the ball short. So I have to put enough spin/power on the ball to make sure drops are not easy!
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Butterfly MPS
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jrscatman
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Thanks very good points. I got killed with cross court smashes by 2 of my opponents. I lobbed to their backhand - since it was high and slow they had time to step around and hit it inside out - and I was now where near it. Day later I am thinking - damn should've lobbed it to their forehand side - so the cross court would be to my forehand for easier return than the backhand...
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Butterfly MPS
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Egghead
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It is same as chopping style, you need to prepare the short ball. However, I seldom see the opps drop the ball short. I think you place the ball not deep enough. After seeing my teammate played this style over a year, I feel this can be a effective style. If a long pips twiddler can plays chop / lop style, it will be fun too watch. |
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jrscatman
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Well, so far only about 3 days of trying this style. I'm finding chopping is easier than lobbing. I have new respect for the lobbers.
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Butterfly MPS
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