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Coming back to TT

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DreiZ View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07/12/2014 at 4:57pm
Haven't played for about 2 and a half years now and thinking of coming back to the sport. Basically haven't touched a racket in that same amount of time.

Previous setup was YEO FL + H3NEO 2.2 on FH + YASAKA XTEND HS 2.0 on BH (sold it when I quit the sport). As I recall it was great in short game with awesome feel, fast yet controllable, but I did not have a spiny loop. When I played I was more focused on form and learning the "Chinese" forehand.
XTEND HS was great for blocks and drives. Nothing crazy in terms of spin either. Counter looping was almost nonexistent for FH and BH. I believe I never reached a rank higher than 1400, or as I've been told so by other higher ranked players.

That setup made me do work, like real exhausting work in terms of rallying. It was great, consistent but tiring.

I've tried multiple blades throughout my time before I left the sport as well as multiple rubbers. Primorac, Korbel, and YEO were the blades I've used. T05, T64, H3 NEO, 729-08, Xtend HS, Sriver, etc were some rubbers I've used in the past.

So now my questions is... Should I get the same setup I left off with or go for something I've always wanted to play with? That setup being: Timo Boll ALC + T05/T05FX (or T64). I've read great things about the blade, being an awesome intermediate to advanced level blade that is good growing into. In terms of rubber, my paradox is: since my old setup made me do a lot of work it was exhausting when it came to rally, I couldn't generate much spin and during game I lost a lot of points just because I was very much focused on my form and thus tiring myself out during a game... Since Tenergies need a very compact swing and do not require as much effort as Neo rubbers I would think it would be better suited for me in terms generating spin, learning a new easier form and hopefully getting better in the long run.

Here is also a practice clip on where I left off. I'm the guy in white.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5hzSEIMUIs


LMK what you guys think.
Thanks.

Edited by DreiZ - 07/12/2014 at 4:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2014 at 12:02am
Just play, that is the main thing.  Get what you always wanted and stick with it for awhile.  (T64 is better on all wood blades, if it was me and I was getting a TB-ALC seems pretty fast to me I would opt for T05.  Anyway, this is for fun so get what you want.

 It is true, your technique is pretty stiff (from watching the video), you need to relax. You are stiff as a board, there is practically no waist rotation (hence no spin and not much pace). Maybe this is because you are attempting to have a "Chinese forehand"?  Stop worrying about stuff like that and just be yourself.  Video yourself regularly and you will improve.

This advice from Zen master Takuan to the Samurai swordsman Miyamoto Musashi is equally true for table tennis and applies to what you have identified as a problem (and watching your video, I think you have correctly diagnosed part of it). 

[I was asked] in what part of my body, then, should I put my mind?

I answered,

"If you put it in your right hand, it will be taken by the right hand and your body will lack its functioning.

If you put your mind in the eye, it will be taken by the eye, and your body will lack its functioning.

If you put your mind in your right foot, your mind will be taken by the right foot and your body will lack its functioning.

No matter where you put it, if you put the mind in on place, the rest of your body will
lack its functioning."

"Well, then, where does one put his mind."

I answered, "If you don't put it anywhere, it will go to all parts of your body and extend throughout its entirety. In this way, when it enters your hand, it will realize the hand's function. When it enters your foot, it will realize the foot's function. When it enters your eye, it will realize the eye's function."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2014 at 1:36am
a lot of knowledgeable people say that the Tenergy rubbers work best on the TB alc for the perfect match up; 05 + 05fx on it sounds great maybe 1.9mm on the bh. you will treat yourself and you will like it. Also keep in mind those Tenergy rubbers last longer than average so it's not really as expensive as it appears. welcome back!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2014 at 6:07pm
Thanks for the input guys.

And yes, I've been told I'm very stiff in terms of movement. Something to work on in the future.

Anyone had any experience with Tenergy 05 FX on the backhand and how it fairs compared to lets say T64 or T05 on BH?

Edited by DreiZ - 07/13/2014 at 6:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2014 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

Thanks for the input guys.

And yes, I've been told I'm very stiff in terms of movement. Something to work on in the future.

Anyone had any experience with Tenergy 05 FX on the backhand and how it fairs compared to lets say T64 or T05 on BH?

Unless you were over 2000 USATT before you left the game, worrying about the nuances of this or that rubber is mostly a waste of time.  The hours spent on practice and coaching are much more valuable and any of the rubbers listed will reward practice time.

That said, T05 FX is a safe choice on the backhand.  T64 is pretty popular as well, and while I use T05, I can understand why people would not like it, though many people who use their forehands and backhands similarly love it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2014 at 8:05pm
@ DreiZ - If you don't get the setup you want you'll always wish you'd tried it or probably get it in the end anyway. ...

I say treat yourself to a TB ALC (a very popular blade)...

Yes, FH T05 is a more than good enough place to start, but if you're going Tenergy you may as well get T80 for BH which better for blocking (what you are doing a lot of now on BH), has a better short game touch, sick for loops and came out since your break...

You'll then be able to flip your bat around and see what suits your FH or BH better...

You look pretty athletic and I've seen a lot worse from match winning players who haven't had a break ...

Go for it...

Play, play, play ... Enjoy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2014 at 8:57pm
I will defend Tenergy 64 on the backhand over 05fx any day. 64 is more functional and versatile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sahiggs100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2014 at 12:33am
You just need to play. Don't worry about all this equipment nonsense. I used to constantly switch around and try new stuff whether it was rubbers or blades or whatever. I finally just decided to stick with something, in my case a Nexy Lissom with Outlaw on the forehand and short pips on the backhand. I have gotten way better by sticking with my equipment and letting it almost become an extension of me because I am so familiar with it.  Outlaw is nothing special but its good for its price and I get all the speed and spin I really need. I have now broke 1600 and I feel that I could still rise above that even at my current level in future tournaments.
If you become too concerned with equipment you will never be able to fully focus on you and your progress will be much slower.  Not to mention this won't help your wallet.  Find something decent for your money and just play and become better. Most importantly have fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sahiggs100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2014 at 12:41am
And I am not sure if that video is typical of your training or not but you will be better served by doing drills and not just hitting back and forth.  Footwork is very important and doing something like the falconberg (forehand, backhand, forehand on backhand side and repeat until you miss) is very beneficial in that regard. Plus it will improve your footwork and your strokes at the same time and better prepare you for an actual match where you don't usually get to stay still. Of course you may already be doing that but if what I seen is more typical of your training then you might consider changing it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spinitgood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2014 at 1:33am
Just use the set up that you always wanted to have. If you are confident with your equipment, you don't tend to blame misses on it and you end up making changes to your own technique instead and so you improve faster instead. Have fun!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2014 at 4:33am
Originally posted by spinitgood spinitgood wrote:

Just use the set up that you always wanted to have. If you are confident with your equipment, you don't tend to blame misses on it and you end up making changes to your own technique instead and so you improve faster instead. Have fun!


I agree but once he has it, he has to stick with it.   The whole Chinese forehand nonsense makes me shake my head whenever I read it - the focus should be on understanding what goes into a quality stroke and ball and just continuing to make your stroke better and better (better timing, quicker stroke, efficient recovery with more spin and speed and the potential for variation against incoming balls and variation in quality to fluster the opponent).  That's what all the good players did, and I don't know a single player who thinks that they would rather have a generic Chinese loop than the actual quality of loop that Timo Boll has.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vlad0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2014 at 4:34am
Your forehand stance is bad. If you continue like this you will have big problems with the knees. Open up legs more to comfortable distance. Your elbow is too far away from your body and that's why you don't have consistency. BH is good but try to leave the ball a little bit more to your body and try to use the wrist more also. I don't think that you are so stiff on technique, doing well with twisting the body. Just a little bit more relax. Buy what you've always wanted to play with and stay with it. T64, 05FX, T80 on BH - it doesn't matter for now. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/15/2014 at 4:04am
Seems you put your weight on your back (bottom) instead of leaning forward. And probably not bending your knees as much will help. If you have money to spare for an ALC with 05 both sides then it is a perfectly fine setup. But bear in mind that you won't suddenly start winning games with a fast and expensive setup until you iron out your technique. Then you won't be disappointed and blame the equipment and start buying another and another like me...   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hithithit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/15/2014 at 7:03pm
@DreiZ,

Since you are coming back into TT and want to improve your technique and learn new skills, I would recommend an all round blade (preferably all wood) and mid range rubbers. There are heaps of rubbers suitable for compact strokes, my personal preference being Japanese natural rubbers and Chinese non-tacky rubbers for the forehand.

You don't need fast equipment to do well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2014 at 8:13am
@Vlad0 and @TurboZ

I used to lean back abit when trying to use my forehand simply because when i leaned forward, it was too much stress on my spine. I dont know if you guys can tell but im pretty tall (6'3) and already bending and sitting low in that position so maybe widening my stance will help. I will definitely try that the next time i play.

Thanks for the input.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2014 at 8:52am
You sure look tall in the video. You are even 2 inches taller than the tallest man in CNT Wang Liqin. I think you can borrow his move if you are practicing similar strokes. You can see him bend his knees but in a more natural way. Also notice the body movement and weight transfer should help.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2014 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by TurboZ TurboZ wrote:

You sure look tall in the video. You are even 2 inches taller than the tallest man in CNT Wang Liqin. I think you can borrow his move if you are practicing similar strokes. You can see him bend his knees but in a more natural way. Also notice the body movement and weight transfer should help.
 
 
 

Very helpful, much appreciated.
I've also been watching Samsonov footwork videos since he is around my height with a european style stroke. Also we are from the same country. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2014 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

@Vlad0 and @TurboZ

I used to lean back abit when trying to use my forehand simply because when i leaned forward, it was too much stress on my spine. I dont know if you guys can tell but im pretty tall (6'3) and already bending and sitting low in that position so maybe widening my stance will help. I will definitely try that the next time i play.

Thanks for the input.

Stroke quality is measurable and sometimes, it pays to just practice strokes, not just the textbook ones, in order to build your own style which is as close to the textbook, but might have different elements tailored to your strengths.  I got to 1700 without a forehand loop.  As a tall player, you can have a really great backhand if you put your mind to it, something that might be missed if you are thinking about a Chinese forehand more than anything else.  The  backhand will ease a lot of pressure on your movement and knees and who knows, you might develop a similar approach to the forehand as a result.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2014 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

@Vlad0 and @TurboZ

I used to lean back abit when trying to use my forehand simply because when i leaned forward, it was too much stress on my spine. I dont know if you guys can tell but im pretty tall (6'3) and already bending and sitting low in that position so maybe widening my stance will help. I will definitely try that the next time i play.

Thanks for the input.

Stroke quality is measurable and sometimes, it pays to just practice strokes, not just the textbook ones, in order to build your own style which is as close to the textbook, but might have different elements tailored to your strengths.  I got to 1700 without a forehand loop.  As a tall player, you can have a really great backhand if you put your mind to it, something that might be missed if you are thinking about a Chinese forehand more than anything else.  The  backhand will ease a lot of pressure on your movement and knees and who knows, you might develop a similar approach to the forehand as a result.


This is very true.  Most of the tall players I know are a bit stronger or at least more consistent on their BH sides.  Jim Butler is a classic example.  Also Samsonov, of course.  Persson too.  Actually Dima is pretty tall, Mattenet too.  This tends to extend even to grass roots levels.  It is important to have that to protect your middle.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2014 at 8:43pm
So you have used Tenergy rubbers in the past and discared them, but now you have read  this combo is good for intermediate players so therfor good for you , hmm

 having said that Tenergy rubbers or any good tensor rubber will work fine if training and having fun, Our brains work on needs and wants so talking someone out of a want is hard lol

Also becareful on that particular training stint in you video, as in real life people won't hit to your forehand if you are already standing extream left, so just add in a extra touch where your training partner hits 1 right and then back into your routine again
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2014 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by smackman smackman wrote:



Didn't read it was good, tried it and liked it. I used it on a cpen before when I played cpen + rpb... odd right?

after trying different grips and such I decided to stick with SH and learning "Chinese" forehand but as you can see it didn't progress anywhere because I left the sport.

so that's why im considering on coming back but to a euro style of fh.

a few of you mentioned my bh in this video is just blocking. That's correct because I wasn't trying to train my BH. Playing cpen and even after with SH, my bh was always the stronger and more consistent side that's why I wasn't practicing it that particular day.

Then again, things changed and 2.5 years had past so I don't know what its like right now because I haven't been to a tt club yet... we'll see how my first trip goes (it will be soon).

Edited by DreiZ - 07/16/2014 at 9:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote hithithit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2014 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

Originally posted by smackman smackman wrote:



Didn't read it was good, tried it and liked it. I used it on a cpen before when I played cpen + rpb... odd right?

after trying different grips and such I decided to stick with SH and learning "Chinese" forehand but as you can see it didn't progress anywhere because I left the sport.

so that's why im considering on coming back but to a euro style of fh.

a few of you mentioned my bh in this video is just blocking. That's correct because I wasn't trying to train my BH. Playing cpen and even after with SH, my bh was always the stronger and more consistent side that's why I wasn't practicing it that particular day.

Then again, things changed and 2.5 years had past so I don't know what its like right now because I haven't been to a tt club yet... we'll see how my first trip goes (it will be soon).


@DreiZ,

Did you read my response to you?

Basically, go with your dream blade (though, an all round blade is a good option too - depending on how you want to approach your TT development) but consider Japanese natural rubber or Chinese natural non-tacky rubber for the forehand. You can do Euro strokes on them. Once you have got yourself settled back on TT, then consider Tenergy for the forehand. The same could be applied for the backhand.

Edited by hithithit - 07/17/2014 at 12:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/21/2014 at 11:38am
Originally posted by hithithit hithithit wrote:

Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

Originally posted by smackman smackman wrote:



Didn't read it was good, tried it and liked it. I used it on a cpen before when I played cpen + rpb... odd right?

after trying different grips and such I decided to stick with SH and learning "Chinese" forehand but as you can see it didn't progress anywhere because I left the sport.

so that's why im considering on coming back but to a euro style of fh.

a few of you mentioned my bh in this video is just blocking. That's correct because I wasn't trying to train my BH. Playing cpen and even after with SH, my bh was always the stronger and more consistent side that's why I wasn't practicing it that particular day.

Then again, things changed and 2.5 years had past so I don't know what its like right now because I haven't been to a tt club yet... we'll see how my first trip goes (it will be soon).


@DreiZ,

Did you read my response to you?

Basically, go with your dream blade (though, an all round blade is a good option too - depending on how you want to approach your TT development) but consider Japanese natural rubber or Chinese natural non-tacky rubber for the forehand. You can do Euro strokes on them. Once you have got yourself settled back on TT, then consider Tenergy for the forehand. The same could be applied for the backhand.

Yes i did, thank you for the input. Ive selected my setup and will try to post a practice video soon once again just for the hell of it. Wont reveal my setup until i get some critique on form and technique. Wink
Cheers


Edited by DreiZ - 07/21/2014 at 11:39am
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