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SadistiClown View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07/27/2014 at 12:31am
So i've decided i'm going to try and teach my girlfriend how to play. she's played maybe 10 minutes in her life. So she's starting from scratch. I also have a timo boll spirit blade spare that i think i'll give her to use. 

I have a few questions. What rubber would you recommend for someone with 0 experience in the game to tack onto timo boll spirit.
also should i give her a 5 ply blade instead or will controlling tbs be easy enough. I'm not sure if i should start her off with something with arylate carbon. i was thinking 1.8 mark V on both sides, what are you guy's thoughts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaun729 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 12:40am
I think an Appelgren Allplay is a good blade to start with but I'm a DONIC fan. You need plenty of control in the beginning, I think a TBS will be too hard to control for a beginner.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SadistiClown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 12:54am
appelgreen allplay is what i started with when i played but i never personally liked the feeling of it im more interested in which rubber would have good control for her. since the only spare rubbers i have are bluefire m3's and tenergy's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 808ponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 12:59am
Butterfly Flextra. Soft and slow
BTY Harimoto Stiga DNA M
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaun729 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 1:05am
I prefer Coppa but Mark V and Sriver are good as well, the classics, most players learnt with these. I know you can buy 729 etc as well but I think that you're teaching her so that it will be easier if she uses Japanese rubber like you. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sahiggs100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 1:10am
just get something cheap from zeropong. Something like outlaw or a generic 729 rubber will do just fine on a halfway decent blade. We put too much emphasis on equipment, get something halfway decent that isn't real fast and she will learn just fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SadistiClown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 1:58am
well, it's a lighter version of tbs. aproximately 80 grams, and anatomic handle. this should help it be easier to control right? and I'm not worried about the cost, i'm simply wanting her to get something good for learning.

should i just do 1.8 thickness on rubbers aswell since she wont have that feel for brushing for a while


Edited by SadistiClown - 07/27/2014 at 1:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaun729 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 2:09am
I personally think that 1.8 is a good idea but I'm no expert, just a very average player. I have been around a lot of good coaches though. The handle is a matter of what is comfortable for the individual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SadistiClown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 2:11am
never met anyone who didn't like an anatamic handle haha.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hithithit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 3:15am
@SadisticClown,

What is she wanting to get out of it? Is this just a leisurely hit a round?

If it is just a leisurely hit around, then a typical $10 racket each for both is fine... Just hit around, forget about the technique and just have fun. If she has keen interest on TT beyond leisurely level, then I think you could enlist her and yourself to a beginners course - she learns from a qualified coach and you get to accompany her maybe learn a few things too - in which, a racket is probably provided for.

Edited by hithithit - 07/27/2014 at 3:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SadistiClown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 6:56am
Originally posted by hithithit hithithit wrote:

@SadisticClown,

What is she wanting to get out of it? Is this just a leisurely hit a round?

If it is just a leisurely hit around, then a typical $10 racket each for both is fine... Just hit around, forget about the technique and just have fun. If she has keen interest on TT beyond leisurely level, then I think you could enlist her and yourself to a beginners course - she learns from a qualified coach and you get to accompany her maybe learn a few things too - in which, a racket is probably provided for.

well heres the thing, she can barely hit the table but she wants to get decent. i say decent meaning between 1500-2000. she also feels terrible playing with anyone because she feels like she's wasting their time and refuses to even try with someone good. this is where i come in. she's comfortable hitting with me for obvious reasons. I'm going to get her something decent to play with that i plan on getting all "banged up" i just need to know what rubbers would offer the best control and make things easy for her and if i should do a different blade all together.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hithithit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 7:28am
@SadisticClown,

Have you thought of beginner's pre-made rackets?

Something like Butterfly Addoy 2000, relatively cheap yet adequate. After she is comfortable with the ball, do a review on what's next to get.

But if you prefer rubbers, now or at a near later stage, then I strongly recommend Nittaku Magic Carbon 1.8mm for the forehand and Donic Coppa 1.8mm for the backhand. Simply an awesome cost effective set up for learning. And very light too!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SadistiClown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 8:36am
Originally posted by hithithit hithithit wrote:

@SadisticClown,

Have you thought of beginner's pre-made rackets?

Something like Butterfly Addoy 2000, relatively cheap yet adequate. After she is comfortable with the ball, do a review on what's next to get.

But if you prefer rubbers, now or at a near later stage, then I strongly recommend Nittaku Magic Carbon 1.8mm for the forehand and Donic Coppa 1.8mm for the backhand. Simply an awesome cost effective set up for learning. And very light too!

i'm not trying to save money, thats not an issue. i just want the best possible product for someone new.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote viva Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 8:45am
Originally posted by SadistiClown SadistiClown wrote:

So i've decided i'm going to try and teach my girlfriend how to play. she's played maybe 10 minutes in her life. So she's starting from scratch. I also have a timo boll spirit blade spare that i think i'll give her to use. 

I have a few questions. What rubber would you recommend for someone with 0 experience in the game to tack onto timo boll spirit.
also should i give her a 5 ply blade instead or will controlling tbs be easy enough. I'm not sure if i should start her off with something with arylate carbon. i was thinking 1.8 mark V on both sides, what are you guy's thoughts.

mark V in 1.8 on TBS anatomic will be a good starting blade. Once control improves you can move her to other rubbers !!
I would advice visiting http://www.experttabletennis.com/expert-in-a-year/
and follow the same plan and you'll have some structure on how to go about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hithithit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 9:04am
Originally posted by SadistiClown SadistiClown wrote:

Originally posted by hithithit hithithit wrote:

@SadisticClown,

Have you thought of beginner's pre-made rackets?

Something like Butterfly Addoy 2000, relatively cheap yet adequate. After she is comfortable with the ball, do a review on what's next to get.

But if you prefer rubbers, now or at a near later stage, then I strongly recommend Nittaku Magic Carbon 1.8mm for the forehand and Donic Coppa 1.8mm for the backhand. Simply an awesome cost effective set up for learning. And very light too!


i'm not trying to save money, thats not an issue. i just want the best possible product for someone new.


@SadistiClown,

There are times when the less powerful and the very basic set up is seen as the most appropriate equipment. I think this is the time for it. It just happens that these equipment are usually relatively cheap.

I would suggest, get something simple, learn with it, and when the time comes, upgrade. I have suggested rubbers and put forward the idea of using pre-made rackets.

My humble opinion, beginners should use non-fast equipment when they start. One reason? More chances of their shots staying in play so they get to practice longer rallies. The more shots they hit, the faster they develop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolidEvolution Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 9:38am
Originally posted by hithithit hithithit wrote:


There are times when the less powerful and the very basic set up is seen as the most appropriate equipment. I think this is the time for it. It just happens that these equipment are usually relatively cheap.

^ Best advice for any complete beginner.

But it's ok if you go out and still buy something cause it looks cool and the pro's use itSmile


Edited by SolidEvolution - 07/27/2014 at 9:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 9:50am
Do you have a club nearby where she could try a bunch of different things?  Some people like the feel of carbon and some don't.  Equipment matters 1% and table time matters 99%, so whatever she is happy hitting with is the right setup.   

I started with Appelgren Allplay and Flextra, which I loved because it didn't react to spin at all and I could stay on the table a long time, even in a loss.  That was important when all my play was at a club where loser sits, maybe for a long time.  When I wanted to learn to loop I had to change equipment.  She has you for a practice partner, so if she likes the TBS with two tenergies she can start with that.  Lots of coached juniors start with fast stuff and they turn out okay.  If you are going to start with FH/BH hits until she gets 20/50/100 in a row like most beginner programs, it won't matter that much.   She just has to be happy.  We all know the saying about what happens when gf/wife is happy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 10:07am
Seriously, get two short pips premade paddles from Walmart and use that.    She will have more fun than if you use your inverted to bully her with consistency unless she is already committed to the game.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SadistiClown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 12:35pm
definitely have plenty of equipment that she could try, however i don't think she'd have the feel to know what's really going on with each paddle. and as i teach to brush a ball short pips from walmart will definitely not make this too easy for her to do. She's already spent time doing mirror strokes trying to get form down a bit before she gets on the actual table. dedication will happen so I'd rather not f**k her up with pimples for some confusing balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 5:48pm
You're putting way too much thought into this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sahiggs100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

You're putting way too much thought into this.

Yes, yes, yes and yes again!  Don't put so much thought into this.  You already just said that she wouldn't really know the difference in feel from this thing to that so what's the point in stressing about getting the perfect equipment?  Either let her use some of your spare equipment or just get her something cheap and controllable which she will do just fine with.  The main point is that she plays and develops strokes, no matter what equipment she uses she will just become accustomed to it and learn to play with it. 
Blade: Nexy Lissom
FH: Gambler Outlaw Black
BH: RITC 802 Short Pips Red

Please Don't feed the EJ's!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2014 at 8:34pm
The main point is that she has fun. She is only playing to be close to you if she doesn't play already. Many women can't stand the sport. But they may have fun if you rally with them without pretensions. Playing with Walmart paddles relieves you as well as her as your game will suck a little so you can both have fun.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2014 at 9:40am
For now, just about any shakehand bat and near modern rubbers will do. It isn't time to get fancy with equipment just yet... it won't really matter for a while. You could start her out with TBS (a great blade and I'll send you a pic of me wearing lipstick if you want to get rid of it) and new inverted rubbers or you could start her out with a $3.58 USD Walmart SP bat that you removed the SP OX rubber and slapped on whatever you had laying around. it doesn't matter right now. WHATEVER inverted bat you give her right now will be a major adjustment and she doesn't have the basics down enough to play with anything yet.
 
Get a colestt.com buster special with XP 2008 in 2.0 or 2.2 and call it mission accomplished. She needs something that is modern, HERS, keepable, maintainable, serviceable enough to row with and she will be proud of it. Save your money for rewarding her progress with TT ACCESSORIES every now and then which she will also cherish and will not grow old.
 
it is WAY more important that she learn the basics of stance, movement, spin reading, rules and such. She will not perform well using ANY bat right now, not so important right now, maybe a little in a few years.
 
I play a pretty mean game with some of my backup bat I have made from cole (I prolly singlehandedly bought him out of 896 blade and XP 2008 rubber) I slap on a modern rubber for FH and use XP 2008 or whatever I got laying around and don't miss much (except a powerful loopdrive).
 
get the name brand expensive stuff AFTER she grows the basics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2014 at 9:53am
Over the years cole has thrown in some extra stuff (He REALLY isn't a big for profit dude) when I make big orders as a way to thank the troops and I have used either the stuff he threw in, used XP 2008, or new 2008 I bought from cole to make 5 bats for Soldiers here on Ft Drum using Walmart OX SP blades for the newbie rec center crowd. It is important these rec players have a bat they can call their own and be proud of and I carry another 4-5 with me if someone is new or didn't bring a bat. Maybe 2 of the rec crowd have become more dedicated to learning basics.
 
Edit: This is why I feel even the most minimal bat with inverted rubbers will get the job done fine. Keeping someone's interest/dedication in the game and having them proud to play is a LOT more value.


Edited by BH-Man - 07/28/2014 at 10:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2014 at 9:58am
There is no reason to stress too much over the equipment.  While I wouldn't really recommend a TBS for a beginner, it has more to do with the cost and "unnecessary-ness" of it rather than because it is unmanageable or stupidly fast.  The feel, or in this case relatively LACK of feel may be good or bad - hard to say.

She can surely do just fine with the TBS.  She could do just as fine with a cheap 5-ply blade from Cole, Zeropong, or any of the big manufacturers.  There are tons of great options out there for under $60, and even some really good ones available for under $20.

Butterfly Flextra would be my rubber recommendation, but any all-around-ish rubber in 1.8mm or 1.9mm would be fine.  Flextra is pretty cheap, fairly durable, and actually plays very well.  It is easy to use for all the basics and perfectly capable of looping at a decent level.  It is soft, reasonably spinny, and reasonably fast.  Inspirit or some flavor of similar rubber from Cole (or Zeropong) in 1.8mm would be fine too.  

I would recommend shying away from any of the "Super Rubbers", but even they won't be a HUGE problem if she gets proper, frequent coaching.  

Which brings up what I feel is the biggest point...  Coaching!  I cannot overemphasize how strongly I feel about getting new players some coaching.  Starting out by learning a decent grip and technically adequate strokes is super-important. 

This brings up Part II or my coaching point... Regardless of your skill level - and even your coaching skill level - I recommend that you get her coaching from SOMEONE ELSE.  While there are exceptions, my experience (doing and observing) screams that getting someone else to teach her the basics and get her through the first major hurdles is a really good idea.  She may initially feel more comfortable "hitting" with you, but, in most cases, the second you start trying to coach, teach, criticize, or even suggest changes, things tend to get personal.  She will be mad at you for being critical, worried about letting you down, terrified of failure, and generally feeling stress.  It might make you crazy too.  Trust me!  If you are a fine player and very competent coach, you can watch her progress and make suggestions, but the suggestions should be made to the other coach - preferably our of her earshot.

If she does get regular, closely supervised coaching, her equipment choice is largely irrelevant. If, on the other hand, she plays or practices on her own, or simply without the coach around quite a bit, slower, more control oriented equipment is probably more important.  I like for my student to use relatively full swings using their best technique as much as possible.  By "full" I mean accelerating through the ball with a backswing, stroke, and recovery to ready.  I don not mean "full" as in "hit the ball really, really hard".  Super fast, spinny rubbers and rocket-fast blades often cause beginners massive control problems (imagine that), which, in turn causes them to NOT stroke the ball.  Instead they start decelerating at contact and frequently just kind of "tap" the ball.  This is a really bad habit, and one that, if not corrected early, can be hard to fix.  With a coach there to supervise, even high-performance equipment is probably ok.

Good Luck - hope things work out for you both!

bes
p.s. I'd probably get her a Allaround or All+ 5-ply wooden blade and two sheets of 1.9mm Flextra. That will work great for at least the first 6 months - maybe up to a year.  There are no strokes that can't be learned and executed with such a combo - anything from chopping to looping is in play.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolidEvolution Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2014 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

You're putting way too much thought into this.

Oh exactly.
This is almost getting as long winded as the 'should beginner use fast or slow blades' discussion.
Or did I just stir the bee's nest with that...seeing as she is a beginner.

Just get her behind a table, hit balls, have fun.
Or get a robot, robot don't care if somebody play funny.
And she don't feel bad for wasting the robots time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2014 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by bes bes wrote:

...
This brings up Part II or my coaching point... Regardless of your skill level - and even your coaching skill level - I recommend that you get her coaching from SOMEONE ELSE.  While there are exceptions, my experience (doing and observing) screams that getting someone else to teach her the basics and get her through the first major hurdles is a really good idea.  She may initially feel more comfortable "hitting" with you, but, in most cases, the second you start trying to coach, teach, criticize, or even suggest changes, things tend to get personal.  She will be mad at you for being critical, worried about letting you down, terrified of failure, and generally feeling stress.  It might make you crazy too.  Trust me!  If you are a fine player and very competent coach, you can watch her progress and make suggestions, but the suggestions should be made to the other coach - preferably our of her earshot.

If she does get regular, closely supervised coaching, her equipment choice is largely irrelevant. If, on the other hand, she plays or practices on her own, or simply without the coach around quite a bit, slower, more control oriented equipment is probably more important.  I like for my student to use relatively full swings using their best technique as much as possible.  By "full" I mean accelerating through the ball with a backswing, stroke, and recovery to ready.  I don not mean "full" as in "hit the ball really, really hard".  Super fast, spinny rubbers and rocket-fast blades often cause beginners massive control problems (imagine that), which, in turn causes them to NOT stroke the ball.  Instead they start decelerating at contact and frequently just kind of "tap" the ball.  This is a really bad habit, and one that, if not corrected early, can be hard to fix.  With a coach there to supervise, even high-performance equipment is probably ok.

Good Luck - hope things work out for you both!

bes
...
 
This is the quickest way to figure out whether she is doing it for you or because she loves the sport.  A woman who loves the sport will not mind being coached by others.  A woman who loves you and not so much the sport will hate the suggestion.


Edited by NextLevel - 07/28/2014 at 2:18pm
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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Go to tt-japan.net, two sheets of mark V 1.8mm, put on the tbs...and you're done
Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 808ponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2014 at 5:27pm
Whatever you end up with also make sure she has a hand in assembling the paddle and then recite the "Rifleman's Creed" substituting 'paddle' for 'rifle' of course.

"This is my paddle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My paddle is my best friend........"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SadistiClown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2014 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

Go to tt-japan.net, two sheets of mark V 1.8mm, put on the tbs...and you're done

honestly most helpful thank you.
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